My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
WC, installing a 30 A breaker should cost about $75 (time) + cost of breaker (around $35). However, the wiring benefit will be if you re-wire your 30 A dedicated circuit with 10 gauge wire. I have done so for my Krell FPB-350 MCX Monoblocks and had a dramatic increase in bass/dynamics. If you decide to re-wire, figure out 2 hours @ $75/hour + cost of 10 Ga wire. |
I second audiolabyrinth recommendation on the Furutech GTX D, BUT your really want the NSF version. No other out let comes close. There are a number of thread regarding this, Whatsbestforum has an ongoing 44 pages alone on the furutech GTX d NSF and the benefits over all other receptacles. Audiogon has a 4 or page under TECH as well. Make sure it's solid core wire also. |
Everyone, we need to be fair to whitecamaross, there is no way he can review anything with the furutech gtx-Rhodium d NCF version receptacle's, lol! , they take 500 hrs of break in time!, that said, whitecamaross, the pay off is worth while, to be clear here whitecamaross, I posted aleady about the 30 amp single pole breaker , do not use a duel breaker!, use 10awg 3/1 Romex electrical cable for the Krell, I did the complete install my self, btw, I also did the furutech receptacle wall plate and frame, a little secret, I also used a very thick 1/2 or 3/4 fiber glass gain box in the wall for resonance control, tested, beat the cheap gain box's for sound reproduction hands down. |
Hello WCSS, rather than fiddling with eBay, I suggest you call Scott Markwell at Elite Audio Video, the Furutech distributor to the US.... Scott is a fab guy, and the ultimate source of Furutech info: Elite
Audio Video Distribution Saluti, Guido |
Please allow me to stop the confusion, the Krell 700cx only will peak draw 26 to 28 amp, most of the time, a little over 20. Amps, say 23, do not use 25 amp single pole breaker, rather, the 30 amp single pole breaker with 10 gauge 3/1 Romex electrical cable, meaning one hot, one negative, one ground, you do not need what so ever the 30 amp receptacle!, the furutech is 20 amp built like a tank!, the amplifier in no way on 110 is ever going to draw 30 amps!, it’s really not entirely a 30 amp circuit! All this is just allowing the amplifier to get the proper current , I have been usein this circuit for years with no issues, cheers |
I’ve heard the 509X a few times in familiar systems at my dealers. Please don’t take this the wrong way, but if you only have $10k for an integrated, it is $10k very well spent. The 509X is in my eyes, just spectacular to look at. And the sound it makes is just as spectacular. It has good resolution, very tight and well-defined bass, super midrange, and very nice extended treble. This was on both the Marten Django L speaker and the TAD E-1s. It could play the E-1s quite well but the sound stage and instrument placing were there but just not very specific. In comparison, I’ve heard the 509 AXII, and for me, it isn’t even close; the 509X is just on a higher level. The 509X really worked well with the Django Ls and the 509 AXII struggled and I never felt it was a good match. I wish I had heard the 509 AXII on the E-1s, but I’m not sure there was any point. Also heard the Pass INT 60 on the E-1s. Here are my notes from listening to the INT 60 "with the Pass the sound was nice and unobjectionable but I was not highly impressed. Everything seemed neutral with no exaggerated frequencies but it just didn’t have that snap and sparkle I look for. Nevertheless the sound was grit and grime free, the sound stage was wide and had depth with instrument stage delineation showing where each performer was located (sort of similar to the 509X) - again, instrument location was not real specific. Bass was decent, not as solid as the 509X but was well defined without sounding mechanical and mids and treble were also very nice too." In the end, I preferred the 509X quite a bit over the INT 60. Horses for courses of course. |
That opinion is based on the speakers you have it paired with. Comparing the Diablo with the Luxman 509X attached to Magico S3Mk2 speakers it was the opposite. The Luxman came across as boring with an old 70s receiver vibe to it while the Diablo had this 3D live performance extremely high resolution sound. Even my old Pass Int-60 at half the street price of the Luxman was to me as capable a performer. When you change speakers it’s like performing a reset on all sonic parameters for the most part and the subsequent honing in to your likes and preferences. |
I am currently running luxman 509x with Canton reference 3k speakers. I like the sound better than when I had gryphon diablo 300 that I sold due to financial reasons. Gryphon is more powerful for sure with more micro details, but luxman has this smoothness that allows me to listen for hours with out any fatigue and gryphon when pushed loud had some brightness. Please don't tell me I have to change cables and stuff ( I had all top of the line sigma shunyata cables and denali conditioner and still sound had some brightness when gryphone when it has been driven hard. And this was the same with canton speakers and sonus faber serafino speakers. Luxman does not exhibit it and have the refined sound with great bass and mids. Highs are natural and sweet. Interesting I had to sell the all shunyata sigma cables and denali due to financial reason and instead bought triod wire labs for power cables and wireworld silver eclipce series 8 speaker cables and niagra 1000 power cond. To my surprise the cables sound great and I don't miss anything without shunyata. Very shocking to me. |
And with all due respect to dguartarnut, I disagree with your comments that Luxman 509x sound reminds 70s receivers. Yes gryphon diabloe 300 is little more 3d, more dynamic and detailed, but it does not have the smoothness of 509x. After having many dynamic and powerfull integrated in my house (pass int-250, gamut, plinius hiato, ML 585, gryphon diblo 300, I now understand that for me most important part is to avoid that digital grinding/noise, that contribute to brightness and fatigue. So from now on Luxman is my preference for near future. WC, please continue with your great thread and ignore purists and trolls. The way you describe sound differences between the gear is down to earth clear and understandable for people like me. Very valuable information. Thank you. |
Thank you denon. I’ll continue to report. I will say that I own both right now and yes the Luxman is intoxicating and so are the 900u in mono mode. They are so spectacular to my ears that I dont see anything else I currently own besting it which includes the krell 700cx once I receive it next week. I just don’t see the krell coming in and smoking the 900u in mono configuration. I can see the krell being better in bass control and that’s where it will end. Will I spend a million dollars rewiring my home to see if the krell can beat the luxman 900us? Hell no. I’ll get the 20a outlet done and a buy a nice outlet and that’s it. If it doesn’t convince me then it’s going to be sold. This whole thing of having to buy crazy cables, circuit breakers, feet, still points, amp stands that dont vibrate, batteries to power components, etc just to edge out another component that needs none of that is something I wont be a part of. I will buy that component that just needs a good power cord and a standard outlet instead. |
Roxy, what I’m saying is I won’t do this: 30k amp 30k in cables, outlets, stillpoints etc just to barely beat a 50k amp ? Hell no I won’t do that. I’ll just buy the 50k amp, plug it into any outlet and be blown away. I Refuse to buy 15k power cord, 20k speaker cables etc. I just rather use that money to buy an amp that is more expensive that will sound good without so much damn drama. This is WHY I love Luxman. You can connect Luxman with Home Depot cable, the lamp cord you have next to your bed and use a PlayStation powercord for it and it will STILL sound damn good. |
I remember one system on YouTube where guy spent 300k on his system and 100k was cables they were Transparent cables & one line conditioner. No professional room treatments just some drapes. Me & my friend disected a transparent super many years ago and was mainly capacitor soldered to ordinary cable. They just dress it up and put a fancy box on it and charge 10k for reference series. Same with Mit. Why would I put a a component that looks like a briefcase before my speaker. Keep in mind great sound was achieved when horns like Klipsch, tubes, analog tables came out. They were not using fancy cables but were able to capture for the most part the dynamics & tone of live music! |
Don’t get me wrong guys, cables make a difference but it won’t make a 20k difference. Instead of buying a speaker cable worth 20k, I rather a 20k source to make things sound better. I use silver 7 cabling and each time I try something else I end up going back to silver 7. Also, remember some brands are not affected by expensive cables. Pass labs is a perfect example. I’ve done a trillion experiments and don’t seem to hear any difference with different power cords. Pass labs then confirmed that their amps are designed internally in such a way that powercords don’t make any sort of huge impact on them. |
I'm using the magico q3, and the community secret legacy book shelf speaker's, the jbl-L1 circa 1992!, these truly play what you put on them!, no kidding!, refer to my Tara labs thread, I do not want to hi Jack whitecamaross thread, this is to reference of the Luxman L-509X and tara lab's muse cable system. |
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so the krell 700CX will be here this Thursday and the more i think about it, i don’t really think it will hold off the luxman 900u monos. It is an "old" design. It is a powerhouse,but i am here to tell you power means NOTHING. The luxman 900u demonstrated that to me many many times. As a matter of fact, the Luxman 900u has made me stop listening to the diablo 300 and it keeps putting huge doubts in my mind that the krell 700cx will come close. If i were to put a $1,000 bet, my money is on the luxman monos. My krell 402e got its butt handed by another amp which i can’t recall which one it was (it wasn’t luxman). I hope i am wrong and that i am shocked by the krell, but all i suspect is that the krell will have a big amount of bass, big muscle and big control over my Sasha 2s, but it will be torn apart by the 900us when it comes to resolution, refinement, etc. I see it as this: David vs Goliath Mustang 5.0 versus Ferrari Hemi engine vs inline 6 twin turbo Bull versus Pasofino horse Nascar racecar versus Formula 1 racecar Those are the best comparisons i can think of. One being just raw power, muscle versus refinement, wisdom, technology etc. I do not think muscle will win this.... |
Whitecamaross, everyone has an opinion, so, I will express mine, the Luxman L-509X is one of the best integrated amplifier's I've listened to, how does it compare to my modified Kell 700cx?, the Krell sounds like you are at the actual live musial event, very real as it gets, the Luxman sounds like a refined stereo system., the Krell is the Ferrari here where the Luxman is a Lexus. |
I’ m with WC on this. Audiophiles with experience know this, power is not refinement. As good as the 700cx will ever be, it is a 1988 Ferrari Countach. Luxman 900u is a 2018 Ferrari Portofino. Technology evolution is the key word here. audiolabirinth is suggesting change the pistons and retrofit a NOS kit on the car. Won’t transform it into the Portofino 2018. As for the 509x, as good as this integrated is it was build to a price point ( amp section like the M700u ) M900u and its preamp brother were build with Luxman best parts and technology... not the same at all. Like a women wich you fall in love with her body...509x. The other women you fall in love with her body, and her soul too...M900u...you get the whole complete package that transcends the experience. |
We shall see this weekend Guys...that said, I’m not about to embark on buying crazy cabling for the krell. I’ll do the 20a upgrade and a nice outlet. That’s it. It’s either going to beat the Luxman or it’s not. Not about to go buy turbos, superchargers, nitrous, cams, ported heads etc so I can beat the other car. If I have to go through that much work then I’ll just buy the other car, pump gas and haul a$$. Why do you think I fell in love with the Camaro back in the 90s after owning a mustang ? Because the camaro was just faster and better. I had to do cams, heads, exhaust etc to be able to beat on the ls1 engine that only had an air intake and a shifter. To me, that’s the beautiful thing about having so many options. Why go through so much pain unless you are doing it because you want to see what changed in your set up after adding a new tweak. that said, maybe the krell does surprise me and puts on a show. I’m not totally counting it out. Lastly, the Luxman 900u also made me realize how mid fi the pass labs 350.8 truly is... I’d own a Luxman 900u over just about any pass labs amp with the exception of the xs series. Audiolabyrinth: I know your krell is not the same as mine. Yours has a boat load of money invested in it and internal work. Mine is the pure work that came out of krell. If mine loses, this doesn’t mean yours would. |
WC, I’m with you on uber priced cables, IMHO, they are not worth the money they are asking for. I would strongly recommend that while doing the breaker/outlet job, you also should consider replacing your electrical wiring feeding the power amps. My Shunyata PCs (used Anaconda CX) are built using 10 GA. A typical NA house would be wired with 12 or even 14 GA wiring. Maximum current rating for a 12 GA wire is 20 A, while 10 GA is 30 A. Redoing the wiring would be beneficial to any power amps you would be trying. This would only add a low incremental cost if you have an electrician already coming in for the breaker/outlet job. I was astonished by lower noise floor and improved bass on my monoblocks, when my 12 GA wiring was replaced by 10 GA. It is the best bang for the buck improvement I did on my audio system. Here is a very interesting article written by MSB Technology on the subject: http://www.msbtechnology.com/faq/how-to-wire-your-house-for-good-power/ |
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A dedicated circuit with nice 14 ga is more than enough for me. Would 12 ga change the sound for the better, absolutely not in my case...I don’t care for a little bit more bass...I already got more than I need with the 14 ga wired on a second distribution panel. Using Oyaide R1 outlet and loving it also. |
@ techno_dude, Any real audiophile knows better to make that statement you said about newer is better when it comes to audio, I have this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf5hU_FQz4k Sound familiar?, this is the Kenwood kr-9600 with Darlington power supply, same as the Luxman L-509X, however, the Kenwood kr-9600 sounds better period than the Luxman L-509X integrated amplifier, as a matter of fact, the Kenwood kr-9600 has better refined ,deeper bass than my krell 700cx!, this will kick the crap out of most equipment out there, this Kenwood kr-9600 is circa 1976, so I really don't want to hear noise in my ear about newer is better, my Kenwood kr-9600 is in mint condition like the one in the video, I am a vintage audio equipment collector and high end audio equipment builder , installer, I even build interior fencing around audio system's to keep pets out and away from the system's, lol!, my Kenwood kr-9600 is named dino, short for dinosaur, big, old, heavy, powerful like a dinosaur, as a matter of fact it's only a couple pounds lighter than the Luxman L-509X. |
Gentleman, it's not amplification has done leaps and bounds with technology, now digital has, vintage digital is crap, as you can see, they can say and do so called improvement's in amplifier's, but to my ears, don't hear leaps and bounds with sound improvement, the video above is some evidence with what I'm saying, happy 4th of July, cheers. |
audiolabyrinth, liking vintage gear and believing it is on par with todays sota is an illusion most readers of this thread have already acknowledged... may it be digital or amplification or pre amplification.This is the reason they come here and read WC to get to know what has come to be the best by todays modern standards. You are free to start your own in the vintage section. |
Obviously you didn't listen to the video! techno_dude, you remind me of those who do not believe cable's make a difference with an audio system, I'm listening to the Luxman L-509X right now, sounds good, but like I said, it does not sound as good as the above video of the Kenwood kr-9600, or when I listen to my Kenwood kr-9600, I bought the Luxman L-509X because I'm a huge fan of Darlington power supply, they do sound similar. |
