My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

Absolutely great video. With detailed commentary that really would inform decision making. Agree w the comment that the 860a v2 gives you a blank sheet of paper and opportunity to draw. I have heard it go through many evolutions here in my system.  And they, for me, continue to impress.  

thanks again Jay. 

This should be a perfect example of what preferences are all about.

This shootout was for you all to choose blind folded and then to see where the rest of the world stands. My personal opinion as to which amp I’d buy if i were to build a system will be part of the members-only section of my site.

What i can say is that if you selected luxman, you won’t be disappointed. Actually, none of these amps would disappoint.

Before i forget, a local audiophile will be be bringing his stereo essence amp. You all know what follows right ? 😂

Essence versus luxman gentlemen...you have made today’s video very well received by the YouTube algorithm which has helped me with new subscribers. That’s the kind of help i need from you guys and the easiest way for me to get the hint that you want more of this type of content. If you support my channel, you have my word I’ll follow through and listen to your wishes. We are about to go out with a bang so prepare yourself to see the M10x go to battle with Gryphon.

Lastly, If that video performs amazing, then i think an affordable DAC shootout is unavoidable 😁

Cheers 🥂!

Glad that I preferred the Luxman. Figured I’d like Sim more than Constellation. Still can’t believe how poor the Simaudio sounded on the videos. Maybe different in person, who knows

I nailed the identities of the three amps, along with their objective sonic characteristics.

Jay, please record the same two (or four, but two would be enough) songs on the Boulder 3060 and the new "Boss" amp. That is the best way to reveal their differences, and to show how they are on a higher level than the three good amps just presented. I also want to see how the reasonably priced Boulder 1160 or 1161 amps compare to the three amps already presented. Mike at Suncoast would probably let you borrow an 1160 or 1161.

Thanks again for the educational and fun shootout.

Yeah but what's flawed with that approach is other things in "your" system will be adding warmth, color and the like. It's a combination of everything that makes the sound you are after IMO. 

Hard to say but I'm guessing good quality headphones and a DAC might be the best way since you eliminate a ton of other components (i.e. speakers , xlr, the room, etc etc. )

First, thank you for this shoot-out. It was a terrific experience -- as well as unique.

I was pleasantly surprised that the amplifier I preferred, the Sim Audio's Moon 860 V2, is the one that was essentially neutral. However, it got me thinking of one potentially paradoxical aspect of this shoot-out and other listening experiences on your channel as well. What if my amplifier is also "warm" and adding to it the warmth generated by the other two amplifiers simply made it too warm? Now, I think that I do prefer a neutral (if there really is such a thing) sound and the addition of warmth doesn't work well for me, so the Moon amp was the one I instantly and clearly liked the most. I suppose my question is how do we, the subscribers, best audition the components you demonstrate sonically if our systems are already colored?

As a side comment from this shootout, it seems that Gryphon Apex has likely topped Boulder 3060 in WC’s eyes, based on his short vid. Bit of a surprise for me if that is right (figured Boulder might be better), but not sure what else it could be

Anyone who claims that the luxman m10x sounds the same as the parasound jc1+ needs to get their ears checked. I've owned both and the only thing the parasound monos do better than the luxman or any of the 3 amps i displayed is the bass. Jc1 monos are great with regards to bass. 

Folks, i think today is the day in which i will release the results and also which amplifier was which. Stay tuned. 

John Atkinson in Stereophile April 2022 described the Luxman M 10X as neutral/colorless, but that is in reference to his Parasound JC 1+ which he thought sounded identical to the Luxman.  He found the JC 1+ warmer than the original JC 1.  He prefers the JC 1+ to the JC 1.

Beware taking anyone's comments as the gospel truth, since what JA describes as neutral I would probably find somewhat warm.  When Jay described the Sim 860 v2 as neutral with some warmth, that is probably in comparison to his Boulder 3060 which is probably more neutral and of course more revealing.

I am eagerly awaiting to learn about the "sleeping giant"!

I also preferred 2 & 3 over 1. But, of course, this is using my airpod pros or whatever through youtube. As perhaps the only user of 860a v2s following/participating on this thread at the moment (monos in my case), I can vouch that there is nothing threadbare in the midrange in my system listening to those same tracks. They sound vastly different (thankfully) than any of the 3 recordings in fact (I understand many of you have better headphone/etc setups to listen to these comps). And, I definitely enjoy comparing head to head through Jay’s recordings and agree with their value.

That all said, I cannot wait to hear the results of the reveal and will fully embrace the results if the 860a is the #1 amp in the order. I am definitely not in the camp of enjoying warmer sound, but I don’t know how many would actually describe themselves in that camp either on this thread. Also, viber, I agree a recording of those first two tracks using the 3060 would be helpful as a baseline/for the record going forward, fwiw.

Thanks again for the excellent shootout Jay.

Based on what Jay said, that the Luxman and Constellation are in the warm camp, and Simaudio is more neutral, I believe #1 is the Simaudio, not the Constellation.  In Jay's survey several years ago, the Simaudio was rated well for its neutrality, but that was when he used warm preamps like ARC, Luxman, D'Ag.  Now using the Boulder 3010 preamp which is highly detailed and ruthlessly revealing, the Simaudio amp could be revealed as having some problems.  I did find #1 (probably the Simaudio) to be constricted and somewhat threadbare in the midrange, but that's only by comparison to the fuller midrange in the other two amps.

So far the votes in both rounds favor #2, which I believe is the Luxman.  That fits with the majority of the tastes on this thread, which is for warmer, fuller sound.

Awesome 😎

Sweet! I bought a MSL Signature Gold a few months back and LOVE it. Although it does take at least 25+ hours to break-in. Initially it sounds OK but after 25+ hrs it is AMAZING. VTF is very critical with this cartridge.

(Dealer disclaimer)

I went up to the my Sonic Labs gold cartridge. 

@mglik - Think Jay said he's getting a My Sonic Labs MC cartridge.

Jay

Think you mentioned Lyra Atlas SL?

I waited 6 months for mine.

which cartridge?

I thought I would try a MI cartridge.

Since there are no more Decca London Reference, I bought a Grado Epoch3.

It blew away my Lyra which is now sold

Just listened to video 2.

Again, amp 1 clearly the worst for me. Veiled, muddy, lacks clarity and dynamics. Fails on most levels. (WC probably agrees, since he really gave amp 1 short shrift on the second track (great track by the way, the Zep instrumental cover or whatever it is).

Amps 2 and 3 again both good, like first video. I think it’s most likely that WC kept the amps in same order from video 1, but wouldn’t shock me if amp 2 and amp 3 swapped here in video 2 compared to first.

I had a hard time selecting between amp 2 and amp 3 the first time, and same here. But I’m also sticking same as previously, giving the edge to 2 here based on better dynamics.

So 2, 3, 1 again for me - same as video 1.

I still think 2=Luxman, 3=Simaudio, 1=Constellation. (but 83% chance I’m wrong based on the number of possible combinations, and that's assuming he kept the order same across both vids)

Great content, WC. Super fun.

Near total speculation on my part since all three amps are pretty close.  I voted #3 on round 2, changing from #1 on round 1, but still wasn't sure.  #2 and #3 are most similar, with varying degrees of warmth and fullness.  So I think that they are Luxman, Constellation.  Lux is probably the most tubelike.  #1 is likely Sim, #2 Lux, #3 Connie.

@ron17 +1  

Couldn't have said it better... or even as well!  100% agreement!

Just finished the 2nd video and am sticking with my original preferences.  #2, #3 then #1 from really good, to good.  I also found amp #1 flat. The amp seemed to have less mid and top end energy than #3 and #2.  Amp #2 had it all for me.  Detail, midrange body, long reverberation time and more detail on top....#3 had the most top end energy and was a close second.

Thanks again Jay for this exercise, looking forward to the reveal and your thoughts on each amp.

My guess is 1=Constellation; 2=Luxman; 3=Simaudio.

Second guess would be 2 and 3 swapped

I'm gonna give the edge to #2 - better bass control, tighter.

So 2, 3, 1 for me on video #1.

On video #1, I am still deciding between amp 2 and amp 3.  Amp 1 was the worst.  It had a flat, unrefined presentation. Sounded 2-dimensional. Did not seem to present as much material, veiled and muffled.

Still evaluating between 2 and 3.

FINAL ROUND:

PLEASE VOTE and let me know which power amplifier is the king under $30,000!

Here is the poll to vote:

Jay,

Before you part with the Boulder 3060, hopefully you can record the same 2 songs with it so we can objectively compare it to the Sim, Luxman, Constellation.  

What about the Gryphon Apex amp and preamp?

Boulder is still the standard for neutrality/clarity.  Do a blinded A/B with the 3060 and this Boss 1000 lb amp, and let us hear what is so great with the Boss.  I've seen you go through romances with what you think is the GOAT, only soon after to realize that something else is better.  For example, the Gryphon stuff was bested by Boulder.

@jays_audio_lab Lol!! Just to keep the record straight, “the best YouTube sound I’ve heard”. Live may differ and I haven’t heard yours live yet. Looking forward to what you have next. I’m guessing big Gryphon. Can’t imagine what will give the Boulder a run. Should be interesting. 

@mglik 

Still waiting on the cartridge. 

@rbach 

Thanks. It's not easy to continue to make progress once you are at the top. Everything is significantly more expensive and the law of diminishing returns is massive. More fun is had with more affordable gear - no doubt. There are simply far more options and more flavors. 

Hey Jay,

What’s going on with your Kronos TT and the move to analog?

I periodically check into this thread to see its progress.

Jay,

I believe most of us have an idea of what you went through and are still going through to maximize the Magico S7’s. The sound with your current system and these 3 amps is much better than "just ok". I remember what you went through to get the Wilson XLF’s to perform their best, and as I recall, you were still bothered by a touch of brightness with those speakers. Thank you for all you do so we can have a glimpse of what is truly possible with high end audio.

BTW (with headphones) I ranked the amps 2 / 3 / 1. They all sounded very good. No doubt boosted by your fine system.

@carey1110

so now that you admitted to hearing "the best you’ve heard to just ok" i want for you to articulate here what you heard between this round of amps and my #1 all time best stereo amp - the Boulder 3060.

I have a sleeping giant in my room that hasn’t been introduced yet. Unfortunately, the pricetag is astronomical. This was supposed to be a trial for me and unfortunately I made the mistake of hearing it in my room and all it took was 30 seconds, zero warm up, and i was reaching for my checkbook.

My Boulder 3060 will be up for sale in the coming weeks since it’s time for me to find it a new home.

My back is sore and in pain after uncrating 1,000 lbs but 30 seconds later i had divorced my 3060.

Folks, please enjoy this 30k dollar amplifier comparison. I did this to shift gears and let you all hear affordable amps. I’m accused of only displaying crazy expensive stuff so this is why I bought those 3 amps. That said, after this comparison wraps up, I’m taking you to the Pinnacle, the Boss, the amp that has schooled me. There is no going back.

Jay

For under $30K, I'd like to hear a shootout between the Boulder 1160 (or 1161 for the low volume songs on these videos) and the top Boulder 3060, or the winner of the present shootout.  The most useful A/B would be between Boulder 1160 (1161) and the neutral Simaudio 860 V2.  All Jay would need to do is borrow a Boulder 1160 (1161) from Suncoast.

You never listened to the top Ayre amps or Vandersteen amps?

I wish I had followed this thread earlier.    I checked out Jays You Tube content and was blown away

So I just listened to the three amp shootout. What got me most was how difficult it is to get the Mágico to sound great. It requires an amp like the Boulder to make it stand up and speak to you. Every other amp paled in comparison. This tells me more about the speakers than the amps. What can I say I’ve been spoiled. The sound went from the best I’ve ever heard to just ok. The lack of dynamics and authority was what I noticed first. Second was the lack of clarity. If I had to pick I think #3 at first impression. I’ll listen again and see.

ron17,

What's important is not preferences, but the ability to hear the differences.  If you like #1 the least, that is consistent with your preference for a warm, less detailed sound.  If I like #1 the most, that is also consistent with my preference for a cooler, leaner and more detailed sound.  Therefore we can objectively share information, which is the real purpose of any thread.  In the future, if you prefer X to Y, then I know that for my taste, I would be interested in Y.  

My preferences were #2, 3, and #1 as well. 

I think this (more affordable) amp shootout is fun.  Jay's been doing ultra high end for quite a while now (Boulder, Gryphon, VAC),  I find it refreshing.  As far as my picks in the first round, I preferred amp #2, #3 then #1...ranked from best to very good.  Jay's gear elevated all 3 amps for sure and they all sounded good.  It's no surprise to me that I chose the exact opposite of viber.  Absolutely no knock on viber,  we seem to have completely different preferences.  I'm guessing my choices might be different listening in Jay's room.  I've owned a Simaudio amp for over 5 years, so I'm looking forward to seeing which one it was.  Thanks for the shootout Jay, I know it's a lot of work for you.

Honestly I was hoping for some different flavors, rather than the same brands yet agian in Jay’s lab. something like the Audia Flight, CH Precision or Solution would have been awesome…just sayin.

Sorry but have had the McIntosh MC462 in my system and it was the most uninvolved amp I've ever tried YMMV

After listening several times on two computers, they are all pretty close.  Forced to decide, I prefer amp #1 which has leaner bass and midrange than #2 and #3.  Maybe #3 is my next choice, and #2 the last.  #1 could be the Simaudio.  I bet the difference between the winner alone and the winner with the Stromtank is much greater than the differences among all three amps as presented, so I hope Jay does a shootout with the Stromtank on the entire system vs without the Stromtank.

@jmeyers 

Agree, The McIntosh MC462 is one hell of an amp.  But, people seem to have their preconceived notions about McIntosh.  

It’s neutral, powerful, and looks great.

Ok folks, It is YOUR TIME TO SHINE!

Please select your favorite amplifier under $30k and DO NOT FORGET TO VOTE by clicking on the link here:

Here is the video:

I agree but i unfortunately don't have access to it. That said, it's always possible in the future 

I confess I wish you had decided to add a McIntosh MC462 to the mix (no, I don’t own one). At slightly less than one-half the price of both the Moon and the Luxman amps, I wonder whether it is only half as good. Certainly, it is a popular choice for those who seek to own a high powered, good quality stereo amplifier.

Shootout plan sounds great.  Looking forward to it.  Good choice of amps