My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
I always say one thing: reviews are great and all but how many reviews have you read that made you buy a component and then you took it home and you weren’t impressed? My current experience is that they are indeed clear and crazy clean sounding but they don’t create a magic act by turning poop into diamonds. Yes if your music is diarrhea, you’ll hear diarrhea and the toilet flushing too. I personality like what they do for the most part. They aren’t perfect by any means And I don’t know of any amp that is perfect.
I found this Part-time Audiophile review to be quite bizarre. Just because the 700W was not enough for the big speakers, they tested a 36+12k amplification system with 2 way bookshelf speakers? How about everything in between?? Go figure.
Review out today in Parttime audiophile on the Merrill 118 and Christine Pre. Seems like its very fussy about what speakers work with them so I think expectations should be held in check until you actually hear how they work with YOUR Speakers. Definitely not "plug and play". Somebody send Viber a box of tissues before he reads it.
Excerpt below:
At approximately 700Watts into 5 ohms, however, the Merrill Audio amplifiers did struggle on recordings with explosive dynamics such as Mussorgsky’s “Pictures at an Exhibition”, with James Levine conducting the MET Orchestra (DGG 437 531-2), or the famous Proprius recording Cantate Dominos. The lower octaves are no match against the 2000W McIntosh Mc2KWs, bass drums and low organ pipes did not go as low, as if the speaker’s low-frequency roll-off happened sooner. The chorus became garbled up at high volume (Over 90dB), which is a tell-tale sign of insufficient power
@whitecamaross Are you going to use the Marantz AV8805 for HT? Are you going to use separate systems for HT vs 2 Channel ? We have not heard anything about the Home Theater setup. I think maybe,that you are still waiting on components, speakers ..Right ? That is where the Roku Ultra will do VERY well.
I’m using wireworld platinum 8 from the dac to the preamp and then eclipse 7 xlr from the pre to the amps. As far as both amps: they are both incredible to say the least. They do things very differently which is really awesome.
WC, Which Wireworld Eclipse 7 XLR are you using--the top platinum, or the next in line silver? Did you compare them? Actually, the platinum is a misnomer since it uses the highest quality silver. Now they have the 8 series.
WC, How about the Rowland Corus vs the Merrill Christine preamps with the Merrill 118? As long as the input impedance of the amp is more than 10x the output impedance of the preamp, there should be no incompatibility issues. No need to follow the marriage package of Rowland vs Merrill. Mix it up to see what you get. You may end up becoming the leading Merrill dealer in the South. Seriously.
@whitecamaross I am not sure if you have Roku or not , but, the Roku Ultra is an excellent sounding streaming 4K device. I am using mine hardwired to my router with Cat6 flat cable from VPI https://www.vpi.us/flat-patch-cables/cat6-shielded-flat-814 I have not played my Pandora Premium subscription for a while . Tonight I accidentally fired it up on my Music Server (Dell precision T5400) . It sounded a little thin , bright and edgy. JRiver on this PC sounds good , but Pandora doesn’t. I then remembered that i usually run Pandora Premium using the Pandora app provided on the Roku Ultra. It sounds 10 times better through the ROKU Ultra. I have Pandora setup for the highest bit rate .There are many apps on the Roku including lots of Radio stations and 4K eye candy stations and HD Audio available I am using the Wireworld Starlight 6 HDMI out of the Roku into McIntosh MX151. I am also using another Wireworld Starlight 6 HDMI from the output of MX151 to TV. It (Roku Ultra) also has USB output The Roku Ultra. https://www.roku.com/products/roku-ultra Absolutely Outstanding performance . I highly recommend it !
This is Shockingly Good IMO . Wireworld HDMI Cable https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=wireworld+starlight+6+hdmi&_sacat=0
Hi, the Merrill are fully broken in. So far, the Merrill has certainly delivered the goods. I can’t say anything right this second other than it is going to put ALOT of manufacturers offering far more expensive gear into a world of hurt. I actually want to have dealers come to my home to hear them and to do a shootout versus their top amps? Any takers?
@WC So your wife noticed the difference between the two setups. Over time, it will be interesting to find out which one she prefers. Do the Merrill's need more time on them or were they used previously? Ultimately, it will be interesting to see which one of the two setups you prefer. Dave
“I know Jeff is currently cooking up a new top end up which should be out by the time Axpona 2020 comes around. oops...you did not hear this from me... :)”
All, the hush-hush high-end Jeff Rowland amplifier project that WC is rumoring is real… It is most likely the follow-on product for the M725 S2 class A/B mono amplifier.
Little is known about it, but I heard from prime sources that eventually this will be the new flagship of Rowland’s class A/B amps. It should provide substantial sonic performance and some cosmetic enhancements over the now withdrawn M725 S2… This would be consistent with Jeff’s practice of replacing a product only when he has something technically significant up his sleeve to push forward the state of the art in music reproduction.
In response to white Camaro SS comments about possibly finding a speaker under $30,000 that would Be better than the Neo’s - I just wanted to remind you how impressed you were with the GT Audio works planar speakers with open baffle Servo Subs. The system that you listened to Axpona was 35k. The 2-12 inch Servo Subs or smaller system comes in at under 30,000.
The question some of you need to answer is WHICH do you enjoy more? a ride on a yatch or a ride on a fighter-jet? Are you the type that would most likely get sea sick? if so, then get the Merrill. Are you the type that has blood pressure and heart issues? then DO NOT get the Merrill. The Merrill WILL tell you what you are putting in your system and some of you might not like that. One a side note, i had my wife listen to both yesterday and she said " this one sounds clearer and more detail on the voices" .. she was referring to the Merrill 118s with the matching preamp.
Update: The full Rowland set up vs Merrill audio element 118s and Christine preamp is very exciting. These 2 set ups couldn’t be more different. The Merrill up is EXTREMELY clear and with perhaps one the best bottom end end I’ve heard. The Rowland follows the traditional “sweet” sound that others also do such as luxman and constellation which I dearly love as you all know. That said, the Merrill exposes kinks in the armor of the Rowland. One of them being how the bass lacks oomph and tightness in comparison. The Rowland is a huge yacht in the ocean cruising at 25mph where you can relax and sip on your drink. The Merrill is a raptor fighter-jet that takes you at over 1,000 mph where you are experiencing speed, gravity pulls and a big adrenaline rush.
WC, As maplegrovemusic said, those other stat speakers will rival and probably beat the Neo. I say probably because I haven't heard the Neo although I have heard many of the other ML models. I like the Sound Lab least because of the huge curved panel that rolls off the highs compared to the others which are correctly designed flat panels. The larger Sound Lab model panels are larger than the Neo with great electrostatic bass. I have a friend in NY whose Sound Lab A3 was still large and excellent, but he couldn't get more than $500 when he eventually sold them, only because his wife...you know the story. I almost bought the original King Sound King which maplegrovemusic uses. It has the best snap/speed of any electrostatic except my own, although the image is too large for me, but you will like it. He has the even taller KS17 model. You could fly out to him and hear them. There was a guy in Conn who was selling the King for $2500 on USAudiomart. The only problem is support, because King Sound is a Hong Kong company, but for $2500 there is little risk.
Its fair to say that Whitecamaross has been and still is on a very long journey to find that elusive sound. Since you are concentrating on top high end sound why not cut out the middle man and go straight to the point. Have you tried active speakers of ATC (who are known for Studio speakers and consumer speakers). It would be an audiophile crime not to at least audition their top active speakers to see whether you like the active sound. Reading between the lines on online experiences of ATC active speakers, those who fall in love or in obsession usually live on ATC speakers for 20 years and often more (sometimes they just change the model).
ATC have their own particular sound which does not change from their most modest passive speaker SCM 7 to the top active EL150. However each model improves on the sound. And active models tend to 'open the misty windows' so you get to listen to the music (what the recordings bring to the proceedings) instead of the HiFi of the component. The bass will be spot on and I think you will not only hear it but also feel it. Also you will begin to appreciate the skill of the musicians and how they play their instruments. Hopefully you would want to play music after music just to hear how the ATC would deal with different recordings and most probably rediscover your music collection in a new light.
If you look at the prices of most Electrostats they are under 20k . Only the Neoliths get way up there . King Sound , Sanders , Sound Lab all could be had for a pittance compared to the Neoliths . Ditch the neoliths and buy one of those I mentioned . Then keep on with the speaker journey and you can always rotate in the panels anytime you want .
That Ulfberbt is a big speaker. I'd be curious too how that one would compare to the Neolith for WC. As mentioned, it would certainly open the door to evaluating lower-mid powered amplifiers, in addition to the powerhouses. And, it looks like it's discounted 25% right now.
At the end of the day though, I'm sure WC has his own reasons for not wanting to try the Tekton. Dave
whitecamaross...have you ever gave thought to auditioning the Technics SE-R1 class d GaN stereo amplifier? I believe it has a much higher switching frequency than any other GaN amp on the market right now...
I know this may be off subject but the Tekton Moab ($4500) and Ulfberbt ($9000) speakers are suppose to have electrostatic like midrange with dynamics up the wazoo. Check out the reviews. If you upgraded all the xover parts on the Moab you would have an even more killer speaker and for about $5500 and with 98db sensitivity you can use less powerful amps. Yeah they look like coffins but the sound is suppose to be outrageous. One of my customers has the Ulfberbt and he says it is the best he has ever had.....just sold his $25,000 open baffle Spatial speakers.
You would have to spend more to get better sound than the Neoliths. I'm sure that some of these quarter million dollar speakers may give something else, but I would rather be driving the latest Ferrari to check the waves. For us regular humans, you are giving us such a treat going down this road. The amplifier means everything with good speakers. The Neolith shows sound in a way that you can determine the quality of the amplifier in ways most speakers cannot. I still look foward to you getting some more powerful D'ag amps or the Gryphon amps hooked up to the Neoliths. Here's to hoping your new room brings you much joy and excitement.
gt, that might be possible, or, it just might be the " system " as a whole, for what it's worth, that made it least memorable. Merrill pre's and amps are designed to work together ( voltage, impedance, as most manufacturers ), so to single out the preamp, would be a guess, as cables, the electrical set up, or even the nature of the Class D of the 118s, could be as much of a factor, as the preamp. imo and ime, even though I have not heard the 3 systems you heard. Enjoy ! MrD.
I have auditioned the Merrill 118 monos with the Christine preamp, the Luxman 900 combo (pre and single amp) and ARC 5Se/ Simaudio 860A V2 in three different systems so it is difficult to comment accurately BUT, for what it is worth the Merrill combo was the least memorable in terms of musicality. It could be the Christine preamp trying to compete with preamps with great pedigree.
The Volti Audio Vittora, with the ELF ( the sub ). Not sure you ever had a chance to listen to it, but that would be the speaker I would buy at $30K. But, it is a horn speaker ( a full horn design, not a hybrid ), and I am biased in that direction, and have been for over 50 years ( that is longer than you have been on this earth WC, if I am not mistaken ), lol. And, you could use the smallest wpc output amp of any manufacturer ( Merrill 114 vs. pr. of 118 ), with headroom to spare. A completely different presentation to the Neolith, but, as always, ymmv. As always, WC, enjoy, and keep up your wonderful thread. Thanks for all the hard work. MrD.
Jeff Rowland 925s Block Audio SE constellation centaur 2 luxman 900u pass labs xs150
before I am questioned why pass labs when I’ve been saying they don’t compare to some of the best amps out there, the pass labs xs series is really the only amp from pass that just stood out for me but it runs hotter than an oven and your legs would be sweating if you are anywhere near the amp.
There are indeed other amps I’ve not tried so I can’t comment on them such as the Dag m400s, gryphon amps, etc. I also have decided to stay away from tube amps for now although i would love to try something with big power such as the arc 750se on my Neoliths but that’s not anytime soon.
Also, some of you want me to circle back to cheaper amps So what I wanted to say is that partially this is the reason why I have the Dynaudio c4 platinums so that I can try amps that are cheaper and that are able to drive this speaker. When it comes to the Neoliths, guys I don’t mean to sound harsh but this speaker can’t be pushed with 87 octane fuel. It just won’t run and will ride like crap if you try it. It needs serious race gas or methanol if possible in order to really get going. Will I keep the Neoliths? Somedays I say “let’s try a new speaker” and so I begin to figure out which speaker I’d like to try and then some other days I feel like I might forever regret if I sell my Neoliths so I am in a tuff spot. I will also be honest and say that I really thought prior to purchasing my Dynaudio c4s that maybe this speaker would surprise me enough that I could part ways with the Neoliths and free up some funds for new audio gear but guess what? It’s just not the case. It is IMPOSSIBLE to replace the huge sound those panels make and the full bottom end provided by those big woofers. I was always warned by several dealers that are close to me that It’s not an easy adjustment to go from a Neolith and to a smaller speaker such as Wilson Sasha, focal Sopra, magico s5, etc etc. And I think they had a very valid point. I cant think of another speaker that costs less than the Neolith and that allows me to put money back in my pocket while remaining relatively content. As a matter of fact, find me a speaker that costs less than $30k on the USED MARKET that YOU KNOW would give the Neolith a run for the money while putting money back In my pocket ? Trust me I’ve looked and it doesn’t exist. I’ve thought of the Wilson Alexia 2 but why would I pay 40k pair ? It’s a stupid move financially speaking. Anyhow that’s where my mind is at this time.
I have been running a pair of Martin Logan Quest-Z for many years. First I used a Bedini 25/25 which did sound quite good but did not have enough "poop". Next I ran a Krell KAV 250a. This amp did not produce enough detail so replacement was needed. Then I tried a Audio Research VT100. This tube amp did not control the bass very well at all. I finally tried a Plinius SA-100 mkIII. This class-A amp I feel is a perfect match for ML. The power and the coherence top to bottom have me very satisfied. I won't be looking to upgrade this amp. Now I am waiting on a Esoteric K-05 to arrive ( also purchased on Audiogon ). Really looking forward to comparing the Esoeric to my Cary CD 303.
When I make a high end
audiophile
purchase, it's an investment - we keep our audiophile products / investments for a long time. All the products I purchase are from well established companies whose products provide excellent performance at a reasonable price (at least reasonable to me), are reliable, has many established dealers and provide excellent customer service. Sonic Frontiers, Melos, Threshold, California Audio Labs (last 2 both back in business I believe), B&K, etc are just a few companies that I can remember (without much thought) that went out of business. Regarding Merrill pricing - and I haven't been keeping up on current events - but if I'm not mistaken, Merrill is a 1 man company. At least it was when he invited himself to my house to demo his amplifiers (I politely declined). Without trying to sound disrespectful in anyway - I'm not interested in Merrill because, if something happens to that individual - the value of Merrill products could change drastically. There's also product service to consider. To be fair - this was earlier when Merrill products were newer, however I still believe the company is a 1 (or 2?) person company. Also - whitecamaross - would you rate and describe the qualities of the top tier amplifiers you like? I'm interested in how you feel about them. Thanks for sharing :-)
WC, Although I credit Guido with being the first to mention Merrill here, I was the first to predict that it would make the uber expensive dinosaur technology amps in vogue to be ready for the trash can. The 116 has 75% of the power of the 118 at only 61% of the price. It should provide plenty of power at sane SPL's. Merrill says that even the 114, although stereo is very nearly as good, at "only" $15K. The 114 is still a high powered amp by most people's definition. At sensibly loud SPL's, the 114 will still probably beat any other amp you've heard in the ways you mention.
Ok here is my immediate impression of the c4 platinums with Rowland and Merrill:
1. Dead center mids. They are literally in between the speakers. 2. Smooth highs with zero edginess 3. Bass is there although not at the level of the Neolith which is expected but it doesn’t lack oomph 4. Very tricky to place. They tend to be finicky about placement but if you take the time to move them around I think you will be rewarded big time. 5. What’s it missing? I’d say it might lack depth and the sense of space that some other speakers have. However, it’s a good speaker given the used market value.
@whitecamaross You haven’t said anything about your thoughts on the Dynaudio C4, except that you moved them out from the wall and they sound MUCH MUCH better. I think we were waiting for you to tell us.
I have been using the Merrill Christine preamp. I need to use the Rowland corus with the Rowland PSU unit to see if the outcome is any different. Wow guys, you all aren’t giving the Dynaudio c4 platinum any props huh? Yes the Neolith might end up making an entrance in the room very soon. It takes 3 people to get them out of the living room. 350 lbs per speaker and they need to be lifted off the ground and brought out in a complete horizontal position. It’s a production to get them out which is why I’ve waited to do it.
WCSS, we are also waiting anxiously for the Neoliths to be paired with the 118s and have the comparison to the JR925s. I know you are trying to get the Neoliths back in your system and new room, take your time and get everything right and let us know what happens. Can you tell us what preamp/s you have been using with the 118s and JR925s?
The mcintosh c1100 and 601s is a great light show for the 4th of July. Not to mention, there is a 6 month waiting period to get anything fixed at Mcintosh. i remember ordering just the front glass for a preamp and they told me to make a line and wait about 6 months... Yep...
As far as the entire class d vs class a vs class ab: Look, at this price point, it is all about how "ripe" you want your music to be. Some people like their steak to be rare, medium, medium-well, etc and that is essentially what this is about. To say that class d has not closed the gap is just stupid. Class D has made a HUGE improvement that i am actually the owner of Rowland 925s for a reason. That said, the better performing class d amps are NOT cheap because those few manufacturers that know HOW TO BUILD a class d amp are right now making their money for the time invested into building a better design. It is no different than when Viagra first came out: Pfizer made a killing from it because they needed to pay for everything that went into research and development and make money of course, but now you can get generic viagra for less. My point is that eventually more manufacturers will begin to make cheaper class d that will sound outstanding and this will indeed end up making other manufacturers jump into the class d world. The Merrill 118s are AMAZING, but one could argue that maybe the 116s are just as good and cost you 14k less? Granted, i am one of the few people that would need the 118s because of my massive Neoliths. i am telling everyone that i am in deep thinking mode and over the next couple of weeks i could end up with Merrill amp? The one thing i can disclose to ALL OF YOU is that Merrill is obscene bang for the buck and it has made me wonder HOW MUCH are we being ripped by other manufacturers charging far more money for something that does not even outperform it. I had 2 people come over this weekend and i had them listen to the rowland 925s and the Merrill and both said that they cant justify paying 60k for the 925s after hearing the Merrill. I would totally agree. I know Jeff is currently cooking up a new top end up which should be out by the time Axpona 2020 comes around. oops...you did not hear this from me... :) What amps do i miss right now? the block audios and the Constellation Centaur 2s. However, this Merrill actually makes me VERY NERVOUS and do you want to know why? because i am afraid of it beating other amps that i have personally owned and knowing that that is Merrill costs FAR LESS money. Unfortunately, there will always be those critics that do not believe in class d which is totally fine. There is also the potential issue of poor resale value with a class d amp, but i suspect the Merrill Element amps won’t suffer from this simply because it could very well be the very best class d right now. I have also spoken to Merrill and gave him my .02 cts and criticism (which i won’t disclose) and he totally agreed with me. One criticism was that they should have included aftermarket powercords which he said he thought about, but that it could have made the price go up by $10,000 because each power cord retails for $5k. I hope to keep trying these amps while in my possession and use several powercords and xlrs and finally strap them to my Neoliths to see what the outcome is.
Putting it another way the synergy that we aim for when auditioning/pairing a pre/amp/speaker is more important than the class of amp you are listening to.
The Class D vs A / AB argument is becoming less and less than useful.
I completely agree. The pro's and cons of specific amps cannot be adequately or usefully described by the class anymore. We must treat each amp individually.
It's rock-paper-scissors for me. I like some Class D amps better than some class A amps, and I like some linear amps more than Class D, and blindfolded most audiophiles could not tell a good Class D amp from linear.
The Class D vs A / AB argument is becoming less and less than useful.
Today, there are really great amps, and less than great amps alike, in every class of operation. This means that what the consumer should consider is the tonal and performance character of each individual amp, and how it is suited for the type of music and tone concept of the particular audiophile. However, its class of operation is no longer a tterribly useful, and even less so overarching, criterion for selecting an amplifier.
Case in point are WC's top choices, where you can see a mix of classes of operation, out of which two amps (Rowland M925 and Merrill Elenent 118) operate in class D.
Note also how WC's observations on M925 and Element 118 suggest that the two devices are substantially different in tonal quality... Thus showing how there may be today little tonal commonality amongst higher end class D amplifiers.
I am looking forward to reading more observations from WC about these two amps.... I will post my own findings on 118 once I receive a pair to evaluate.
bill_k hit the nail on the head regarding Spectral from my limited experience in the late 90's. At it's best, with other Spectral and the specific MIT/Spectral cabling in terms of musicality, it can be at or near the top of it's price point, class. However... it doesn't play well with others and has had considerable reliability issues.
I think WC does a great job of explaining in great detail how a particular component sounds to his ears. We can't take everything he has ever said about a particular component as static recommendations. As he listens to more and more components his opinions will change. It's easy to think component "X" is great, until it's compared to component "XX" that sounds better.
Alfa: everything on my thread is about evolution. When I first heard the pass amps, yes those were my impressions but as soon as I keep moving up the ladder, my opinion has changed. They sound slow and lethargic in comparison to the latest offerings I’ve had the pleasure to review. I have owned over 300 amplifiers and I believe that I have a pretty good ear and can pin point WHAT each amp does or doesn’t do. I think the best pass amps are the xs series or the xa200.5 Monos. Do you want to kill the pass 350.8? Get a luxman 900u. That amp makes the pass 350.8 sound broken.
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