My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
As I stated above and on my website no one needs to lose money to try these things. The inverters, the batteries and also the Puritan filter are all sold with 30 day money back. And you can buy a $300 2200 watt inverter and remove a car battery from one of your cars to experiment. And then, if you do not like the inverter then send it back for a refund. I mean, how easy is that? You will not be sending them back.....you will hear within seconds the improvements.
Of course, the full monty system using the 5000 watt inverter, two 200 amp hour LifePo4 batteries, better battery cables, better Furutech outlet on the inverter, and good feet underneath the inverter, and using the Puritan line filter will sound much better than a 2200 watt inverter on your car battery......but you will get an idea.....and you can buy the full monty system for a little under $6K and get your money back, as well. What are you waiting for?....I give you permission....Mother says......YES, you may.......he he.
Yes, you still need great power cords from the Puritan to your equipment (unless you can afford and want a $145K Boulder preamp).
No, you do not need a dedicated line or fancy outlet......you are only using the house power to charge the batteries. There is no "overflow". You charge the batteries and then you disconnect the charger from the batteries when listening.....no connection what so ever with your normal house power. You are OFF THE GRID.
It will sound the same day and night, you will never have to worry about lightning blowing up your stereo.......but best of all, you will get the best sound out of your components......It will let your components shine! I will be adding more info daily on my site (like how to install your own ground rod dedicated to yoir stereo, etc,) and also I want my site to be a source of all things inverter.....so, as people try this I hope they will send me their findings and pics of their system so all can see and learn......as you know, a pic is worth a thousand words.....you can see by the pics on my site very clearly what my friend did......pretty frickin simple.
What a glorious day.....what a glorious moment shared with beautiful people (that’s you!). It is all good....God is so good he/she only needs one o.
Sorry, I haven't been paying that close of attention to the battery-powered discussions.
Is it true that Stromtank or Ricevs collection or any battery powered device pretty much gets rid of any advantage of dedicated AC lines? Or do these solutions sometimes (e.g., at peak power times) still rely on overflow help from the AC?
Like I said, haven't been paying close attention so if this has already been answered, I apologize
Don't blame you WC. I mentioned it would be fun/better if you tried it, but selfishly, only so that we can hear the comparison. Your money spending is your decision - I definitely don't want to be guilty of telling you how to spend your money, and I'm not trying to do that. Plus, the stromtank is a nice form factor comparatively. Not sure how you would fit the setup that ricevs is suggesting :-)
Jay isn't spending money on things that are experimental and that he will need to be buried with. Who's going to buy all the devices from this experiment if they fail to impress you? Lol 😂
1) WC has not tried/heard ricevs suggestion with inverters, so he cannot absolutely say that one is better than the other. He can speculate.
2) ricevs has not tried/heard a stromtank, so he cannot absolutely say that one is better than the other. He can speculate, but he's indicating that he is interpolating - based upon a reviewer's comparison of a Stromtank vs. an inverter, then comparing other products to what the reviewer used that are supposed to be better products.
The way I look at it, anything is possible, but when putting pieces together as ricevs is suggesting, synergy will come into play, and the end product might or might not be as good as he suspects.
With that in mind - I see that ricevs mentions that he does not mind begin wrong about his speculation that this DIY setup would be better than a Stromtank. That indicates to me that he is open minded about the comparison. To me, this is respectful and an interesting option - it would be fun for someone to try it out. Even better for all of us if WC tried it.
All of this is regarding the performance side of it. Regarding the appearance side of it, the form factor of the Stromtank wins in my book and most likely with my wife :-)
Ricevs is there a web site for this inverted you are boasting about?
He has already posted this link. In another thread, someone has posted this link to another solution. It seems to me that with the proliferation of electric cars and continued improvement in batteries, we’re likely to see more of these kinds of products.
I’m a big believer in dedicated lines and power conditioning, but I have to wonder how bad someone’s electric service must be for any of these devices to have a sonic benefit. I haven’t tried one, though.
Ricevs is there a web site for this inverted you are boasting about? I’d like to read about it myself and possibly try it. You can message private if you want.
3010 was going into the wall for this particular test. Having a stromtank does indeed lessen the importance of aftermarket powercords on the electronics
Is it possible that going to battery power lessens the need for expensive power cords? Your opinions on power cords seems to have “evolved” as politicians would say, after you got off the grid. Or were the comparisons done going into the wall?
I did predict a technology (nothing that I was going to sell or would ever sell) that could take the place of almost all your equipment.....I do think it is still coming. We shall see. I did not say I had a product that was better than the Mephisto.....please, go back and look up what I said.
This inverter thing is real.....it is now....you can touch it, you can buy it, you can test it for yourself....this is not a prediction.....You need to defend your position or no one will buy your expensive Strommies......you have no idea if what my friend did is as good or way better or worse than a Strommy......it certainly is way less expensive and you can run a power amp on it and expand it to any amount of run time....all cheaply. You have so much money, you can for sure order the 5000 watt $900 Giandel inverter with money back gaurantee and hook it up to one or your car batteries and if it sucks then you know something. Right now, you know nothing. I know what my friend hears.....He is in heaven listening to his stereo with the pictured system. As my friend Sieg used to say....."it will all come out in the wash".......time will tell and it is not going to take much time.....I don’t mind being wrong about my feelings that the Giandel/Puritan is better than a Strommy (which is $16K and will not run a power amp.....the other is $6K and will). Will you mind if you are wrong about the Strommy? What if you are selling a way less good product for way more money? Don’t you want to know if you are giving your customers the best they can get for the money? Its just a frickin inverter! Why would a Strommy sound better than a Giandel? Because it is heavy/ German? costs more? The only thing that matters is how it performs. There will be those open people who will decide to try the inverter/battery/filter system i suggest......and then we will see what they say about the performance......all talk until then is just conjecture.
I wish you all blissful listening......to your soul and, of course, music.
The ego defines and defends. Has anyone A/Bed a Stromtank with a Giandel/Puritan system.....of course not. But, I can interpolate.....since the $450 Yeti (according to Tom Lyle the reviewer) sounded the same as the $20K Strommy and since the Ecoflow sounded mucho better than a 3000 watt Yeti.....and the Giandel completly stomped the Ecoflow (according to my friend whom I trust).....I think there is good reason to celebrate. And then you add the Puritan? Read the reviews on the Puritan, by itself. Do you really want to learn and grow and have a better stereo....or do you just want to be right and defend your turf? Do you want eveyone to have the best stereo they can afford? Everyone!!!!!!????!!!!! So, how does this movie end? The movie never ends.....we are eternal. Love is all there is.....there is room here for everyone and everyones opinion.
I am sharing my joy......I want everyone to have better sound. I make NOTHING by posting this information.....I want you all to be happy. All you have to do is try it....then you have an idea for yourself whether I am just blowing hot air or maybe I am really helping you. Open your heart.....open your mind. Even if it is not reviewed in some magazine does not mean it does not have merit.......move outside your box.
I am so excited about this inverter thing......
Have you ever been so excited about something that you wanted to share it with everyone? What is so cool that the basic versions are so inexpensive and if you do not like it you can get a refund......for the inverters and the batteries.....what is there to lose......except your ego?
You got a stromtank? How would you know ? You see what I’m saying ? And then I look like the bad guy for putting my gloves on... Do you only understand things when someone goes off? Do you only understand to not jump off the second floor of a building after you do it and break your legs? I don’t quite understand you 🤔
I've seen this movie before and i think you've seen it too. You know how it ends so why go there again man ?
I don't think he's trying to hock his wares in this case - just providing info for folks if they want to try a lower cost alternative to the Stromtank. Like he mentioned, he's not making any money on it.
"... I will have pricing options on my site.....I am not making money doing this........just very excited to let the entire world know. I will be posting links to my page all over the universe.....you NEED to do this!
You repeatedly use this thread to hock your wares and link to your site - taking advantage of the numerous viewers/posters. Your latest foray is more blatant than most. When you are called on it, you respond with gibberish.
At best, your behavior is discourteous; at worst, it is mercenary.
Jay is talking about improving things with the Stromtank......I am talking about improving things with another inverter......how is that a non sequitur? The ego knows lots of ways to make things wrong. The heart knows INFINITE ways to make things right. Would you rather be right or loving? No one "owns" a thread......Jay talks about all kinds of stuff not related to "amps". All are welcome and the more information we share the more happy we are......do you want to be happy?
Just finished the preliminary info......way more coming....this is exciting....and inexpensive. As people do what I suggest I will have pics of their systems and their comments as to the result. I have no doubt that this inverter system as shown plus the Puritan line filter would be way, way better than a Strommy........the whole package is around 6K (5000 watt inverter, 5000 watts of battery, better cables, Furutech outlet, charger).......A nice starter system would be a 2200 watt inverter, charger and one 200 amp 12V LifePo4 battery (2500 amp hours compared to 1000 amp hours of the Stomtank 1000) for around $1.5K. I will have pricing options on my site.....I am not making money doing this........just very excited to let the entire world know. I will be posting links to my page all over the universe.....you NEED to do this!
Jay The Stromtank added to the D’Agostino preamp brings it pretty close to the Dartzeel price doesn’t it? Also makes them both Battery powered basically too.
Absolutely. The 3010 and 2110 are similar. Neither cares for a powercord. The stromtank elevates the 2110 even more but I’m not sure on the 3010 yet. The stromtank brings the 2110 performance awfully close to the 3010 though.
The stromtank review from stereophile talks about something similar. He said it brought his dag preamp very close in performance to the battery operated dartzeel.
I think in WC's video, he mentions that those watching the videos seemed to favor the presentation with the stock power cord. I know it's a YT video, but WC confirms by mentioning that a high end PC is not necessary.
Having said that, this seems to be an exception (the 3010). I am guessing that just about any other pre-amp that WC has tried will benefit from an upgraded PC.
Agreed though that everyone has different tastes and listening preferences, so you will always have folks that sit on either side of this.
Jay I understand how the use of aftermarket power cords on the ultra high end makes no since to you. That’s because YOU prefer the stock powercord sound, at least on your Boulder gear. What you have to realize is that everyone hears different and YES it is POSSIBLE that SOMEONE may like it different than you do. This is why people like to be their own cook. That’s why all these companies are in business. It’s personal preference that’s all. You’ve always been your own cook that’s why you enjoy your system as much as you do. You chose the speakers, the amps, the digital the room treatment and the room it self. We’re all making our own sound. Take that away and you loose the fun in my opinion. So that why it makes since to me. However I don’t put a lot of money into powercords cords but I don’t have or need the level of gear that you have either. I’m looking forward to what you will be doing next. I assume at this level you’ll be moving in a different direction since you’re pretty much at the top of this Ultralinear, highly revealing type of system, or are you? Lol!
thezaks"A nice thought about high resolution audio files on Drop Box, etc. However, I think the idea is to get folks to watch the videos on YT and to continue building the subscribers. If WC provided these high resolution audio files, then some/many folks might skip YT altogether and only use the high resolution files. This would somewhat defeat the purpose for the YT channel."
One thing to keep in mind is that Jay has made the shift, change, and transition to an actual business and I think most everyone here wishes him the best with his venture. Sharing the files could be done a a fee-basis as you note generating for Jay an additional stream of revenue to join his You Tube channel and his equipment importing/distribution business which is just "getting off the ground" with his battery power supplies. I think sharing the actual file will actually increase his visibility, prominence, and authority, because many people understand, recognize, and accept that You Tube offers very low quality audio and Jay would not have that restriction or limitation on his shared files in Drop Box and those users will then download those files where they previously ignored You Tube. You can see in this thread that some struggle to hear any difference in Jay’s videos and some of the reason and explanation for that may be the You Tube audio quality.
As I’ve mentioned previously it is apparent andeven obvious that many users in this forum a very sensitive, caring, emotional people who prefer complete, structured, controlled "safe environments" and for those there is You Tube while other people would like to hear the actual file.
Interesting reveal on the power cords. I admit I had a hard time telling the difference. I was inclined to pick the Transparent cord (#1), that was my initial reaction as I posted, but I intended to go back and confirm that initial thought with follow up analysis just never got the chance (too busy with my kids). But I know either way it would have been very close, not a landslide or even an easy choice for me
I hope to be wrong, but I suspect we’ve seen the last of KRELL. It’s painful to see this American brand like this. When I think of the 80s and 90s era of amps, i think of KRELL - NOT McIntosh.
If I had the capital , I’d love to resuscitate a brand like this. KRELL Is what put big powerful class A amps on the map. It’s like a big Ford F350 or Ford Mustang. You can’t get more American than that.
For those of you who may not know, i wasn’t born in this country and yet i was in the Army at the age of 17. I’m very Patriotic and it gets to me to see this happening.
Competition is real in all aspects of life. The internet has made competition a worldwide force in which only the strongest survive - survival of the fittest - as they say.
I appreciate the comment above. Unfortunately, some people simply won’t understand that. They want to walk through life only looking out for themselves.
I know some folks don’t give a damn about the work i put in (which is fine) and if it were up to them, I’d be their slave doing this 24/7 for free and THEY’D STILL COMPLAIN.
I don’t have time to do community service for the masses...there’s only 24hrs in a day and i have to do what moves the needles for me and my family. A man that can’t comprehend that should not be on here reading anything I’m typing daily and that’s not someone I’d want to talk to anyhow. Only those men with families, spouses , REAL BILLS would be the ones that understand me.
Not sure I understand the response. I do understand however that a person who puts in hours and hours week after week of putting together equipment/presentations, recordings, working out sales/purchases, consulting with folks, etc, in addition to day job, family and personal life - that person deserves the chance to make a buck for their efforts.
A nice thought about high resolution audio files on Drop Box, etc. However, I think the idea is to get folks to watch the videos on YT and to continue building the subscribers. If WC provided these high resolution audio files, then some/many folks might skip YT altogether and only use the high resolution files. This would somewhat defeat the purpose for the YT channel.
The only alternative I can think of is something where WC can charge monthly for the high resolution files.
jays_audio_lab"I thought I’d have more collaboration in here"
I would kindly suggest that the primary, over riding, most important explanation for this is the very approach upon which you rely and that is You Tube which is a very low fidelity specification by audiophile standards. Of course You Tube provides a safe, fun, comfortable environment which is very important to the emotional, caring, sensitive people here in this thread and the power of the video is not to be dismissed, rejected, or ignored. What would I think substantially enhance, improve, and benefit your approach is to yes keep the You Tube videos but also post high resolution audio files of your efforts to a hosting site such as Drop Box or any of the other reasonable alternatives that are now available. This will give you the benefit of those listeners who can distinguish between You Tube’s compromised, limited, flawed fidelity and that which can be attained with higher, improved, more refined resolution and will lend more value, substance, and importance to your work.
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