My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
chazzzy007, Yes, the video quality is excellent on what you posted. But the mikes are probably in the back of the room. WC won't have show visitors, so he could place the mikes in the sweet listening spot, much closer, to obtain a more revealing sound so he could do more subtle A/B demonstrations. It is possible to beat the big boys.
Take your time, Rome wasn't built in a day. Ramp it up as quickly or as slowly as you want to or as works for you. It's your deal. We're just giving some ideas. Nobody expects it to be perfect overnight. If the content is good, word of mouth will kick in or eventually people will find it and sign up. It'll take time. Just have fun with it and don't put to much pressure on yourself to get to a certain point by a certain point in time. If it's meant to happen, it will. If not, hey, it's just a hobby anyway ...
I am going to create audio convolution files to use in my office to run with ROON. I am reading the following book to learn about audio recording, mic placement, etc... An easy-ish read and the author is well known on the Computer Audiophile site.
This info could be useful for someone doing YouTube videos. Darko.com also had a video about what goes behind the scenes when he records a YouTube video for an audio review. He talked about mics, placement, and other issues.
Not everybody, only some who like to be off topic and pollute the thread... Ego still hurt because we have seen through the ´´ never offending friend’s reviews’´. Or maybe because some of us don’t agree with you the Alexia 1 being a great buy ?... Just relax, it’s audio , it’s a thread, some of us will challenge you sometimes.
The Magico M3, are they great ? You are a lucky person, we keep following you. I have even subscribed to your yt channel as you suggested.
Not everybody? Well most for sure. If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all. We don't need a self-proclaimed truth detective here.
Well sorry pokey77 if I offended you that much. To all who feel offended by my overly critical posts. Do you think you can relax, drink a beer, and let this thread continue on topic. Or you need me to send some personal apologies by certifiied mail first ?
In the old days, I read a book on stereo microphone techniques and learned some general principles. In the end, though, I needed to do my own experiments and listen to my recordings in order to get the sound I wanted. For example, the classic ORTF angle of 110 degrees didn't work for my trials on site as well as 90 degrees. Depending on the musician positions and the limitations of space that I had, I would be flexible in mike distance and angles. I came to prefer the directional soundstage precision of cardioid mikes versus the more popular spaced omnidirectional mikes. Today, I would never go blindly by what some DSP program says is the "right" setting. Nothing is set in stone. I do the EQ by ear whether recording or listening to any recording. We all know how blind "objective" specs don't really tell how a component sounds.
Will you write about those Magico M3, or will you keep crying on me forever. Take a milky cappuccino, it will help you relax. It’ s your thread , bring it back on course.
Have it your way. Guess we will have to wait till you come back to your senses. Don’t do it for me , but for the rest of your humble readers. Magico M3 ?
All good. My humble readers are the ones that want you gone. I’m actually speaking out more to you because they have messaged me privately asking me to address you so yes they don’t need the lack of productivity you bring to the table.
WC - what is status of Odin2 power cord and speaker cable? Did u have to return? If so, do you expect to add more Odin2 one piece at a time this year?..
So I still own the Odin 2 PC and it’s on my dcs vivaldi dac. I’m not sure about the Odin 2 speaker cable yet because the only one I have access to is 4m in length which means I will be paying for extra cable i don’t need. I need no more than 2m max. I’ll be shooting the momentum m400 vs pass labs xs300 this weekend but that won’t be uploaded until later on. I want to add a few other videos before I upload that battle. I am also going to be doing a "throwback" by bringing back an amp I’ve owned before. This amp will also be going to battle vs the m400s .
as far as music being played is concerned,how do you handle the copyright strikes that will,[or have]occured?Perhaps you might enlist the musicians following you for some copyright free music to bypass all of that?
@whitecamaross I can't believe I've been following this thread for over three years. I too have enjoyed watching your audio journey unfold. Keep up the great work be it here or the youTube channel (I'm a subscriber!).
Can you share what track you're playing on video #2? I'm dying to see how it sounds over my humble system.
@keoliphant , when you click on WC's link, click on 'Show More' when you get to YouTube. He has the song information there (like many other people who post these types of videos) .
Dan Agostino momentum m400s have arrived. I’ve been waiting on these for years. Will Dan Agostino best Nelson Pass ? Each xs300 draws 900 watts idling and the m400s draw 750 watts so both are not really far apart in power demands. The m400 is certainly gorgeous and perhaps the most beautiful amps out there. The xs300s look like a Tonka truck that can take massive abuse and never quit. More industrial looking. One interesting fact is that I’ve never read anywhere that a reviewer is using momentum m400s as their "reference " amp, but I’ve read a few reviews where the reviewer owned the xs300s as their reference amp. At this level, I don’t expect either one to squash the other. It will be more about what each one does better than the other and figure out strengths and weaknesses. It's kind of like comparing a Mercedes s550 vs BMW 750. Are you all curious as well ? Stay tuned to find out.
Having owned both S550 and 750s, I can tell you they are quite different animals...they both do different things at a very high level, but their inherent weaknesses are as different as their strengths
Just some thoughts from others on how much more you pay for the "jewelry" D'Agostino amp? Yes they are beautiful and give a pride of ownership but.....
Mine was just an observation on m3, not a criticism. I’m still calibrating to the timing and flow, I suppose, as I recently just finished binge reading everything from the very beginning, and in doing so everything seems to happen instantaneously without regard to delays between posts. I do hope with start of YouTube that WC’s posting quality/frequency doesn’t trail off here. Little worried about that but understand only so many hours in a day. I’m partial to the thread, I guess
@riaa REALLY! I never said I heard the amps, I don't play in this arena of $$$$$$ gear. I was just making an observation about how much the case work costs and nothing about it's sound quality which I'm sure is at the top.
Almost everybody in this hobby wants to find gear that performs for less money. It is what makes this hobby so interesting. To build a very expensive sota system is easy. To build one half the price that gets you 99% there...is king.
Even WC does it when he talks about finding Odin 1 powercords on the used market, being a best buy for whats invested.
Honestly, it was hard to tell what point you were trying to make, when you ended your post with "but.....". Also, as riaa mentioned, you said "others". You may not have intended it so, but it comes across that you want opinions from others, but not WC. Yes, I’m sure the case work costs some dollars, but keep in mind that the price is still a good chunk lower than the Tonka truck built Xs amps. Some folks will love the look of the m400’s and will not mind paying a little bit extra for it. Once you get to the price point of s550’s or 750’s, many folks don’t mind paying a little more for the nicer looking wheels.
If McIntosh was not keeping up with the big boys, it would have died years ago and resale value would not be among the very best if not the best.
I never rule out a product, based on snobinism. I keep an open mind, because I know they are products out there that compete with much pricier ones. Best example is the Benchmark AHB2 amplifier. It mesures like crazy low thd unseen before... better than most of your ARC fanboy overpriced gear.
You must listen to Pipe and Slippers music cause that's all the AHB2 is good for. Its HORRIFIC on poorly recorded classic rock...like looking at a woman without their warpaint on in the morning...A frightening experience
. Im not a Fanboy of any brand and I probably have more Amps here than you will ever have in your life....and only 2 ARC amps.
Mcintosh=Harley Davidson. You pay for the brand name but you certainly don't get the quality. Yep...resale value is good. Same goes for Vintage Pioneer, Marantz etc....Prices keep going up. Yet performance wise they lag WAAAAY behind other brands like Sansui, Sanyo and higher end Kenwoods. C47 is crapola. I had the C52 and that was mediocrity at its finest. I also noticed in prior posts made by you that you say you have BOTH of them. We all know that isn't true.
Its obvious that you are not welcomed here. You are TROLLIING a very reputable thread with highly regarded audiophiles. If the shoe doesn’t fit go find one that does.
I get the chance to listen locally to the D’Agostino mono-blocks through D’Agostino or ARC Pre/Nordost and into Wilsons. The best description of the sound-stage I can think of is effortless and pure. Really amazing...
Techno, Are you now done ? Or should we continue to watch you get roasted here ? Can I continue with my thread knowing you won’t go back to the behavior you’ve been displaying ? Let me know, I don't mind pausing my journey so some people can straighten out your behavior.
I won’t change a bit. I’ll keep being respectful as always, and I’ll keep my critical side to this thread. The question is , WC , are YOU done ? ( because you really are at an all time high off topic) . Please return on subject and tell us about the M400s.
I’ll return when I’m ready. You’ve been warned that your negative criticism, constant opinion of gear you haven’t heard and lately just simply an effort to attack high end gear for your own satisfaction isn’t really cool anymore. When you throw punches as what you’ve done in the last few weeks, you have to expect that it’s a matter of time before they come back you as you have experienced today. I hope today has given you a good idea of how pissed off some people are at everything you’ve been doing since you returned. I don’t know why you have something against those who have the opportunity to own some of the best stuff out there. No clue why that affects you which is now clear to everyone by your latest comments. You don't want to be known as the guy who hates on others who have more. I said it above, concentrate on you and don't worry about criticizing those that don't affect your life.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
