Hello Guido--thanks for your exciting post about the new Rowland 535. If the HF of the 535 is as open/resolved as the 925, and the 535 is coherent, that suggests that the rest of the freq range is comparably open/resolved as the 925. In any case, for sound quality you think $46K would be a fair price for the 535, but at $12K/pr it is a best buy. Probably a single stereo 535 for $6K will be about as good within its still large power range, and that makes it incredible as a SOTA contender for that money, a best best buy. I hope you can arrange an extended audition with break in for the Merrill Element 114, which will be priced about $9-12K. Merrill says the 114 is very close in sound quality to the 118/116. It may not have as much power as the Rowland 535, but that would be a great shootout for 2 great SOTA contenders at a reasonable price which everyone should be interested in. Merrill may not want to tie up the expensive 118/116 for such an extended audition, but he might be agreeable to lending the 114 for that, or at least let you try a fully broken in 114 to compare to the 535 for a week or so. From your comments, it seems like Rowland has a somewhat rich but not euphonic sound. My experience with the Mola Mola Kaluga at home is that it is a cool/neutral but still smooth sound. Boston Symphony Hall has a cooler sound than Carnegie Hall, in part because Boston SH has no carpeting or plush seats like Carnegie which softens the sound there. Boston SH is like Mola Mola, and perhaps Rowland is like Carnegie. Correct me if I am wrong. Also, it seems like the 535 is not class D, just light due to the switched mode power supply. I am looking forward to your comments on the 535 used in stereo. Thanks so much.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Hello Viber, an evaluation of Merrill Element 114 would make for a really interesting project... Would not be a shootout, though... I much prefer discussing merits of components in their own right, rather than pitting one against the other. I prefer not to use the term "rich" in audio... It reminds too much of heavy, buttery, and "rich" cuisine, which I am not particularly fond of. As I cannot hear anything buttery or heavy in the current Rowland house sound, I much prefer to use the terms complex, extended, and coherent, as well as immersive and emotionally involving. M535 does run in class D... But like with many top performing amplifiers, its class of operation is not an ostensibly audible factor of its performance. One could tell that M535 may possibly run in class D only from the lack of cooling fins while the unit essentially operates at room temperture. I’ll start an M535 thread before long, and we can then continue the specific discussion of this amp there. Saluti, G. |
I actually owned the Lampizator Big 6 not the 7 .. sorry . Anyway it has been 4 or 5 years ago. I remember it was very 3D , had the "midrange Magic" but also had very Good bass and it was fairly transparent. It sounded very real with Zero hardness or Grain. It had the realness of tubes. I know that i changed several of the tubes to NOS tubes , but i do not remember which they were. I know one i changed to was a 6F8G, which is one of my favorite tubes, especially in the place of 6SN7. I remember that i had a National Union (coke bottle )Rectifier Tube . I just remember the soundstage depth and height being about the best that i have heard as well as it being very very soulful. |
Really Techno_rude ? It is Polish Written in 2006 from their website is below : Lampizator - from Polish "Lampa" meaning the vacuum tube (or a valve) - lampizator is "the one who makes things tubed". The man, in this context - it’s me. Or a device converting CD players to "tubed type". In this context - the output amplification device. Lampizator is the most talked-about item in the hi-fi circles after the rise and fall of SACD ! ;-) Lampizator is serious equipment I think people can’t take you seriously either. You can’t even spell it right...LOL |
If someone can improve 10 times the performance of the Dave dac with an add on filter, it is a sign that the Dave is not state of the art to begin with... or just already outdated. I will wait for the Dave 2 which will incorporate this new thing they sale for 5k. The think that has always made Chord a digital leader ( and my admiration) is the fact that their top gun dacs were always fully digital input optimized in one piece of gear...I’ m out if they start to go DCS multi boxes. |
@techno_dude DAVE analog output stage so transparent and analogy that shows us what an upgraded upsampler filter of 1 million tap will do. |
Interesting discussion on the Lampizator Bg 6. I have owned this for nearly 5 years now and still love it. I could not have described the performance of this product any better than grey9hound. I tried several tubes (types/brands) in the audio section and the power supply section and found a magical match with both that took the unit far beyond how I got it with the stock tubes. I can not imagine how any solid state DAC even well into the future can touch this unit in how it portrays space, the harmonics and decays of piano and voice. I have had no desire to update to the Big 7. Maybe the Golden Gate at it's crazy $20k price might take the trophy, but the Big 6 at $3k or so now on the used market and a couple hundred $$ of select tubes is a runaway killer musicality masterpiece. This with the Aria WV5 tube preamp running with RCA 12BH7 tubes in the line stage is pure musical bliss. John |
@whitecamaross I mentioned the Tambaqui DAC earlier and you said that resell would be an issue. So in that light a new development on this DAC. "GTT Audio is circulating a demo Tambaqui to prospective buyers for home audition in the USA. Contact Bill Parish if you're interested.This DAC is going to start getting a lot of user feedback soon. The guys buying it are people that have owned the DACs being mentioned recently on this thread. $90K+ MSB, dCS Vivaldi, Playback Design, Lampizator, D1 Esoteric, Mytek, Berkeley, Aqua , Weiss and a few more + PS Audio |
@yyzsantabarbara I bought my Makua preamp/DAC from Bill Parish around a year ago. I researched for several months before I took Bill up on his in-home demo offer. I know the Tambaqui is just now being released but The Makua is a sota preamp with the same DAC all in one chassis (1 less pair of analog IC's). I've been trying to get WCSS to at least go for the no obligation in-home demo of the Makua but he's a no go on it....that's cool. Don't want to be too pushy...nothing worse than pushy audiophiles! |
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I wanna wish each and everyone of you a Merry Christmas. I hope that you all accomplished all or most of what you wanted to accomplish this year. I’m really blessed and lucky to have you all continue to walk with me in my madness. We’ve been through funny moments, hard/harsh talk and disagreements, but we are all still here trying to stay afloat and get the most from my journey. My goal is not only for me to continue to pursue the ultimate sound (which is subjective of course) but for you all to grab whatever you can from my own trials without having to spend all the money I’ve spent. I really appreciate you all posting your beliefs and thoughts here and also want to send a shout out to those of you who follow me and remain in the dark by not posting here. This year I’ve tried extremely hard to stay as neutral or “out of the way” as possible when you all disagreed on different components because I believe some disagreement is healthy in general. It allows everyone’s voice to be heard whether we agree to disagree or not. I also want to thank audiogon for allowing me to keep using this platform to share my journey and letting it continue to flow without putting any sort of roadblock along the way. This thread became #1 here on audiogon because of ALL OF US here and not just me. It doesn’t matter how good a live performance is if there’s no audience clapping at the end of the show. i am thinking of a live Q&A at some point in the future so you all can log in and ask me any questions you want. Remember, I came from nothing in terms of audio equipment so I can relate if that’s all you can currently put in your home. There’s no shame in that. Thank you all again and I hope you all have a great Christmas with your loved ones! |
WC, how do I view your pictures? Merry Christmas. I like your merry sentiments. ron17, Bill Parish is such a gentleman. Did you listen to the Mola Mola Kaluga amps in his home or yours? What is your reference amp? Guido is enthusiastic about the Rowland 535. At $6K it seems a best buy for a SOTA contender. WC may also be interested, since it probably has good resale value, although for my purposes if it is such a value, I would keep it. |
Today is the day ,finally, when the Neoliths earned their keep as two gorgeous women emerged from each speaker cabinet on Christmas morning. Immediately, HF response increased dramatically. Bass was deeper and more defined. Audio nirvana achieved....(although room ambient temperature rose quite dramatically ,heh) Enjoy it WC Merry Christmas!!! |
@viber6 Yeah Bill is a great guy to work with...really knows his stuff. I live in LA Ca and never had the pleasure of traveling to New Jersey to his home. I have not heard the Kaluga's anywhere. I demoed the Makua with DAC in my home before I purchased it. My system is Innuos Zenith mk2 SE / Makua preamp/DAC / Simaudio 870a amp / YG Carmel 2 speakers. |
So last night I was going to play Christmas music since I had some family over and my right speaker wasn’t playing... I did a lot of troubleshooting and figured out that the the right channel output on the ref10 was dead. Nothing played out of any right input. I took out the power supply chassis and discovered that one of the tubes was burnt. These are nos tubes in the power supply (I was informed they had bought them) and so I was lucky to have stock tubes so I replaced the tubes in the power supply with factory tubes and the different was quite noticeable when I went back to factory tubes. I will give you all more thoughts later on. |