My first tube integrated: which one to get?


Hello Audiogoners. I have had only Solid State equipment for my entire life. Recently, I have been considering a purchase of an integrated tube unit. My budget is around $4.000 USD. I have been looking at two units in particular: Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III and the Cary Audio SLI-100. I’m having trouble deciding on which one to purchase. I was hoping the Audiogon community could advise me as to which one to get.

My current system consist of a pair of Emotiva XPA-100 mono blocks, Parasound P6 and a Music Hall 9.3 TT with an Goldring Erotica LX cart. My speakers are Focal Aria 926. I have a smallish room, 11’7” (3.56m) x 15’7” (4.78m). I should also note that I’m planning on getting a DAC after my integrated amp purchase.

Both tube units I’m considering provide 100 watts/channel in Ultralinear but the Rogue Audio is switchable to triode mode at 60watts/channel. The Rogue unit is of a KT120 configuration whereas the Cary unit is a KT150 design. The Rogue has an onboard MM/MC phono stage albeit solid state. The Cary has no phone stage therefore I’ll need to get some sort of step-up phono stage from my MC cart. The Cary unit, normally a $6,000 plus system is on sale for $3700. The Rogue unit is $3400. I listen to manly rock from the 60s to current and some classical. However, I have been enjoying my friends jazz collection he gave me, inspiring my to seek out more contemporary jazz recordings.

My question are:

Should I even consider this purchase?

Will I experience the upgraded tube-quality sound I’m hoping for?

Should I consider instead a tube-based preamp to go with my 250watts into 8 ohms mono blocks?

If you recommend the pre-amp path, what sorts of things should I be paying attention to?

How important is it to have the ability to switch to triode mode? I understand that acoustic jazz sounds much better in triode mode?


Is there anything else that I should be considering with this possible purchase?

I should also say that I don’t mind used if I can achieve a bigger bang for my buck. Buying either the Rogue or the Cary new provides me with a generous 3-year warranty.

There you have it. I look forward to your input. Thank you all in advance for your help.
 

diminishedchord

Tsakiridis Aoelos Ultra

i love mine to power my Nola Boxer 2s. 
Uses k150s, mundolf caps. 

 

 

I agree a tube pre is a great starting point. In my experience, I get better sound when pairing tube amplifiers with tube preamp’s, but many like to mix tube and SS. I have a preference for vintage - Marantz 8B, Citation II, etc. Whichever route you go, explore tube equipment because it’s magical. 

I'll 3rd the QS INT. there one for sale used for like 1500 bucks. And theres a CMIII for like 2500 get em both. Then you'll have several different flavors to try.

Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III and the Cary Audio SLI-100. 

I'd go Rogue but the Cary is a fine amp also.

Yup, Quicksilver Integrated. Ideal for a small room and speakers of reasonably high sensitivity such as your Focal 926's. Worked great with my Focal 906's.

@diminishedchord,

I bought my R8 used so the answer is neither, but I've dealt with China HiFi as I needed a replacement remote and they were very responsive, as was their US repair facility.

 

David

Sonner Legato Unum with matching stand. Built for Tube and Class A amplification, though work well with my GaN and other Class D stuff also.

Fritz speakers are very nice also. 

 

 

I second the recommendation for Fritz speakers. The go exceedingly well with tube amplification. The Fritz Carrera BE has a beautiful beryllium tweeter that IMO is a match made in heaven for tube amps. Quicksilver integrated amp gets my vote. 

If you’re gonna possibly change speakers soon I’d highly recommend at least identifying what they’d be so you can choose an amp that can drive them properly.  FWIW.

A good tube preamp is a good first step, but if you really want to experience all of what tubes can do, it’s best to go with a full tube amp as well. Within reason, the number watts is less critical to me than the quality. Triode is the way to go IMHO.

One of the benefits of tubes is that you can roll tubes to fine tune the sound to your tastes and system.

FWIW, I’m running a pair of KT66 outputs on a pair of Dyna/VTA 70s running as monoblocks. It’s only 10-12 watts per side in triode, but sounds pretty amazing. Also, FWIW the Convergent Audio amps are the absolute best I know of, and use KT120s.

@diminishedchord 

I owned the Cronus Magnum II for several years and absolutely loved the sound.  The CM III is an absolute no brainer for you, your room and speakers.  Expect dynamic punchy bass, clear refined midrange and a large atmospheric sound stage.  The KT120 power tubes are tough to beat.  

Given your response to carlsbad, I would consider the change to speakers and a tube integrated. 

I would lookup Fritz Speakers. Give him a call and discuss your situation and sonic preferences. His speakers are easy to drive and are very tube amp friendly, No need for a high powered tube amplifier. 

Hello carlsbad, thank you for your response. I didn't mention it in my original post because I wanted to keep it short, but I'm also considering a speaker change as well. My Focal 926s are a bit too much speaker for my small room. If I were to make the change, and given the size of my room, which speakers would be a good fit for a tube INT? I need a speaker that extends in the high frequencies. My aged ears need all the help they can get. I was thinking of a ribbon tweeter stand mount or maybe a pair of Scansonic 2.5 MB1?

Hello armstrod, thank you for your repsonse. I'm curious, did you purchase your Willsenton R8 through Amazon or did you buy it direct from China?

1) You should definitely consider the purchase because the only way to know if tubes are for you is to try them in your system.

2) Upgraded tube-quality sound? Only your ears can tell you that.

3) A tube preamp is a great option if you're otherwise happy with your Emotivas.

4) A tube preamp should have an output impedance at least 10X lower than the input impedance of your Emotivas. Otherwise, you just need enough inputs (including built in phono if you want it) to hook up all your sources. I'm a fan of the 6SN7, but there are great preamps that use other tubes too.

5) Triode/ultralinear switching is nice, but my experience is as long as triode mode has enough power for my speakers I prefer it with all types of music, so I rarely switch. I've had the Willsenton R8 in my second system for about a year now and after the initial experimentation I've left it in triode 100% of the time with my Caintuck Lii 15s.

The Rogue and Cary units are good choices and fit well given the rest of your system; $3.5K for preamp alone might be overkill.

New DAC is a whole 'nother discussion. I'm 95% vinyl, so my Schiit Bifrost is more than enough.

100 wpc is far from the sweet spot for tube amps.  Your speakers do not match well with tubes.  Buy the DAC first.

First, I think what you are thinking is a very good idea.

I took me some forty plus years to finally get a tube amp. I, so wish I had done it decades ago. I first got a tubed preamp about 30 years ago, then tubed preamp, tubed CD player, and finally amp a few years ago. My system, all tubed now is so much more enjoyable than anything I had in the past it is just shocking… see my systems.

So, you ask a lot of good questions.

I would go for the Rogue. Forget about the watts. My Audio Research Ref 160 offers ultra linear 140 wpc or 70 wpc in triode mode. While when I first got the amp I was shocked at how there seemed no difference in volume or weight between the two modes. But the triode mode seemed a bit warmer more natural, so that is what I used. The other day for some reason I found my system sounded sterile and not nearly as involving as usual. It was technically really good, detailed… but really missing something. I realized I had unplugged the mono-blocks… which defaulted them back to ultra linear mode… I flipped them back into triode mode… just heaven. The real warm enticing sound came back… cymbals sounding like brass, deep silent background, the incredibly musical experience.

Triode mode with tubes… magic.

Seeing as you have mono blocks, I’d suggest you look at getting a tube.preamp. You can get the best of both worlds. The tube sound without the heat from the output tubes. I have a pair of tube amps, each have 4 output tubes and they’ heat up the 15’x15’ room they’re in in a couple of hours.

Also, preamp tubes can last 10,000 hours and KT 120’s maybe 2000.

I've been around stereo gear since the components only had one channel and they called it called hi-fi.  I was there before transistors, as well. In any case, maybe I'm now truly deaf & over the hill but I just can't help but think of my Primaluna Integrated as my hifi end game. Not terribly expensive. Sound as lovely and involving as anything I've owned. Conservatively engineered. True, I'd hear a passel of better systems when I'd go to hi-fi shows and haunt hi-end L.A. audio stores. But for the past few years I'd rather just listen to my .mountain of records & CDs, and my various streaming sites.

Since you have a small room check out the tube based Soundstage Expander from Black Ice audio.

 

My question are:

Should I even consider this purchase?

I do not know the “pair of Emotiva XPA-100 mono blocks” … but maybe a tube pre is also an approach?