Musical subwoofer under $2000

+1 @yyzsantabarbara 

The KC62 was recommended to me for its speed or ability to keep up with my main speakers.  It’s the only sub I’ve tried, and I am very satisfied with it.

Subjectively, I like the KC 62’s size and industrial design.  And, while I couldn’t say so based on direct experience, others who have vast subwoofer experience and expertise have posted that small rooms do very well with small subs for 2C listening.  To be clear, I’m declaring my room small, not the OP’s.

Not sure if it’s been said, but SVS has a model that competes with the KC62 for less money.  John Darko compared them to each other on YT.  

Good luck

Please look at the Dynadio 18s

Goes down well bellow 30hz and is very musical

+1 for the Rythmik F12G.  That's what I paired my Magnepan MMGs with (very, very well I might add). 

I later added a small M&K K-10 in an opposing corner just for kicks to help fill out the room.

The Rythmik subs are highly adjustable, appear to be about as fast as any sub on the market and IMO offer all the slam anyone could need regardless of music.  I don't understand the comment on Rythmik subs not being good for rock slam.  They'll eat pipe organ lows for lunch and drink rock slam as an aperitif, near as I can tell. 

YMMV.

I am critical of subwoofers and most recently  owned two REL T9i units. 

The RELs sounded excellent but had a couple flaws that made me sell them. The level control was too coarse for properly matching with my main speakers- one click position and the sub overpowered the main speakers and on the lower click the output dropped too low for some reason.  

They did not extend at the sub bass frequencies which is something I prefer- a strong output at 20Hz. 

My new subs are the SVS SB 2000 Pro.  They have excellent output and 20 Hz and give that deep bass sound and feel.  The App control is very fine- level setting and matching is easy.  The DSP is also useful, I used it to tame a few high peaks on the left subwoofer to smooth the response. 

If you have room, the SVS SB3000 is super impressive and has a bit better tone than the SB 2000 Pro.  The SB 3000s were too large for my space.  

I would highly recommend going the two sub route.  You have a decently large space to fill that will surely have peaks and nodes.  With subs 1+1=3!  You have a great system and some good subs will really enhance your listening experience.  Good luck and cheers. 

If you get two subs, you can also try each as L/R mono ( = stereo subs), and you can conversely stack them vertically and run each in stereo (L + R channel signals) to see if an “array” approach improves their “collective” directivity. Stacking may be more difficult with the model (Gallo TR3-D) I recommended vs. the others, but the benefits might (MIGHT) remain the same 😉

Thanks again for all the advice. Right now I'm considering the Rythmik F12 XLR3 gloss white with A370XLR3 amp  or the Arendal 1723 SUBWOOFER 1S in satin white - with the option to go to two later, if needed. I must also admit I'm tempted by the Arendal 1723 SUBWOOFER 2S at $2,500 as a one and done solution.

Like many I was leaning to REL (but only because there is so much hype around them) but from a value for money perspective their prices have leaped enormously in the past 2 years and made them much less attractive from a value perspective.

By the way I saw another thread yesterday on DAC's https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/dac-recommendations-please-2
and was fascinated by the BARD AI review from @ghdprentice  AI since its trained on existing data is highly susceptible to information bias too, but nonetheless maybe something Audiogon should be looking at and using members feedback?

Highly recommend the Arendal sub.

I use the smaller 1961 1s in my bedroom setup (mostly used for home theater) and found the controls (e.g. variable phase, selection of roll off slopes) very useful and it was surprisingly easy to integrate with the Magnepan LRS+.

@saboros thank you for that input. I'm really torn between the two right now, but I think I like the Arendal better, so this helps.

I must also admit I'm tempted by the Arendal 1723 SUBWOOFER 2S at $2,500 as a one and done solution.

I would say no.  Don’t do that.  Getting two lesser subs will provide much better overall performance than one more expensive sub.  Get two cheaper Arendal, Rhythmik, or SVS subs.  And I agree that REL is overpriced relative to the highly competent competition.

@soix thanks again for your advice I'll go the cheaper route as I understand the x2 route will be better.

I have a pair of SVS SB3000’s and they are great. App allows you to dial them in to whatever you’re listening to and the are fast and responsive. I’ve used them with Monitor Gold 200’s and Cornwalls and they complement both. 

Just curious here but in these "need lower-end" subwoofer discussions I rarely see responses for Monitor Audio. I am using a Monitor Audio RSW12 in my setup which matches wonderfully with my 1.6 Magnepans! Are the Monitor Audios out of the price range or is it something else? 🤔 

@sparksgja, I lost somehow a long post when I clicked on 'review' I'll keep it shorter and try again.

On page 1 two links were provided: one by @ditusa and one by @audiorusty and I strongly encourage you to read them. The contents will clear up some conflicting opinions.   This should be required reading for all.

In almost any thread on subs there are those who complain of slow bass.  No such thing!  They may hear that sounds seem muffled and indistinct but it is not because the speaker is slow, the driver will obey the input signal, it has no option. This is more thoroughly covered in the links mentioned.

Let me explain: All rooms without exception have modal issues with bass waves combining either in phase or out of phase and also in between creating peaks, nulls and partial nulls. An in-phase condition will result in a peak which can be 15 to 20 dB higher than other frequencies causing what is known as either one-note bass, boomy bass or slow bass because the elevated peak takes longer to decay than the rest of the spectrum. It will be apparent then that the muddle resulting is not pleasant to listen to.

This common problem can be dealt with in 2 ways by adding room treatment or by adding multi-subs or better still is to use both. When you do both you are effectively taking the room acoustics out of the equation, so what are you left with? You are left with being transported to the venue which is the ideal situation and needs to be heard.

It has been suggested to get 2 lesser subs than just one big expensive one and I fully agree. The best I have heard are servo subs available from both Brian Ding at Rythmik and Danny Ritchie from GR Research. Available as DIY kit too. I have at the moment a REL and an SVS and find SVS superior but will build a servo sub to add to the system, not for more bass but for more of the multi-sub magic 😎

If you go this route, in addition to taming the peaks there is a corresponding filling in of the nulls which are as big a problem as the peaks, Nulls are like black holes for music, there isn't any music, it's been cancelled. The more subs the smooother the response allowing you to hear all the music without having some important bits swallowed up in black holes 🤔

The subs to look for IMO should be sealed and have continuous phase adjustment which will make integration much easier. My 2 small subs augmenting some OB speakers fill my well treated 5X7 meter room with tight slamming and detailed bass enhancing not only the bottom end but indeed everything providing a rewarding and immersive experience.

I mentioned on another thread that on a few certain recordings I can hear the size of the big hall even before the music has started.

 Lemonhaze is giving good advise. The Rythmik subs are a great value. Danny at GR Reasearch has a video on the subs that is worth watching.

IMO subwoofers and subwoofer setup are the most frequently misunderstood and poorly executed areas of the audio realm. Two is better than one and four is a swarm. Save up and buy an Audiokinesis Swarm and you will have the best bass extension attainable, there’s nothing like it! And you won’t be spending money on acoustic treatments for the bass. 

@gotvinyl, thanks for the compliment. Yes Duke's Swarm or Debra are great and great value. However although the multi-sub approach is amazing I find that the lower frequencies in some rooms take too long to decay and some help from bass traps help reduce the decay time and provide even greater improvement. 

Measurement using REW or similar is the icing on the cake to really dial things in. The CSD or waterfall plot clearly indicates where any problems or resonances lie.

@lemonhaze Great advice on room response. Some don’t have tools to use to dial in the sub or subs if more then two so they play it by ear. Luckily I have REW but I use more with DIv2 a Rational Acoustics software and for this purpose it is great. For my situation, I have Vandersteen 2ci speakers which has the bass couplers that has enough bass so one sub for me is more then enough to reinforce the lower bass response.

I have read the links that was posted earlier and really has some great information. Peaks are easier to tame then nulls as long the nulls aren’t more then 3 db difference.

I hate to offer another way, as you seem to be narrowing down options, but, in my opinion, using the Vandersteen subs would be best way to integrate a subwoofer into your system.

The use of a 1st order high pass filter doesn't introduce any delays in the time/phase of the signal. It also lets you amplifier do more by eliminating the demanding lower notes.

I have used other subs in my system and they just don't integrate as seamlessly nor easily as the Vandy subs.

The main constraint is that you need to buy the crossover (either fixed or the M5-HP which allows you to change impedance load from the amplifier). Older models like the 2w/2wq can be had quite reasonably used. The new Sub 3 has an equalizer built in, and can be tuned to the room.

Bob

@mofojo   Nice to hear a realistic direct experience.

I had an early version F113 in the house. When used with the early Velodyne DD Optimization the smaller F113 was surprisingly every bit as potent as the larger DD-18.

At the time both manufacturers were not only similarly priced but seemed to be on the same developmental timing trajectory. I too had a similar positive service experience just prior to the 2019 sale.   

@highend64, thanks for the heads up on Rational Acoustics. I was not aware of this and will be looking into it. I use mostly Omnimic V2 available from Parts Express.

@gdnrbob, yes Richard Vandersteen's rather unique practice of using a woofer below it's natural resonance frequency works extremely well. I have not seen mention of anyone else using this approach.

High passing the main speakers makes so much sense I'm surprised it is not more widely adopted. As you say: it unloads the amp essentially providing more headroom and reduces speaker IM distortion.

I have a DIY line stage where I can select between output terminals and have one of them with a single cap and resistor soldered in place forming a simple line level high-pass. For those interested who do not want to butcher their kit just connect it to either end of your interconnect cables.

The value of cap depends on the input impedance of the power amp or the internal impedance of the tape loop in your integrated amp.

Google PLLXO (passive line level cross over) for tables and simple formula. This is not only the least expensive way to do this but also probably causes the least damage by avoiding extra cables and their associated connectors.