Msb dacs why not alot of postings

$$$$

$$$$

Discrete R2R dac’s say no more, if you have one, you have it all, pure music. "MSB" Most Significant Bit is what they’re all about

Cheers George

Most folks can't afford them-let alone have heard them. That's why.

10k up to 85kish..is alot !! Question is to posters, would you use this dac as a pre as well ??

Back in the early days of digital they had some good affordable offerings.   Now they are out of reach......  

If I even considered spending that kind of money, I'd stop myself.
Then, I'd get a Chord, Mytek, Benchmark, etc.

I don't know about being the best perhaps one of the most expensive.

I had one for about a decade.  It was a wonderful sounding unit and it only cost $7k after all the upgrades.  Now their pricing is much, much higher.  They probably still sound wonderful, I imagine.

@hilde45 yes you could get the Chord, Mytek, Benchmark, Bricasti, and maybe another ALL for the price of one top tier MSB. Will the MSB be that much better? Maybe but probably just different.

Because they are expensive. At least that’s the perception. It is also very exclusive brand, with extremely strict control on dealers to avoid discounting and territorial restrictions.

Having said this, the Discrete DAC is relatively affordable starting right below $10K. Once you add one of the modules, and the second power supply, you are at around $13,000. This is the DAC I have, with the ProISL ProUSB module combo and the optional second power supply, and I am extremely happy with it. If I ever had the cash to upgrade, it will certainly be the Premier. But unfortunately prices double from one model to the next. Then once you add the upgrade clocks, powerbase, then....

Anyways, if you can find something in Used market (current model that is), grab it! Truly SOTA, and definitely endgame territory for most.

i am now of the belief that in the last couple years the outboard DAC offerings have advanced substantially in terms of trickle-down performance benefits into lower cost units

this really shifts the point of diminishing returns / value curve to the benefit of more affordable units

like everything else in hifi (turntables, cartridges, amps, speakers...), more expensive is often still better, but just as often, it is just different, or only ever so slightly better, however better may be defined

just soooo many truly excellent dacs that are hard to better in the $1000-1500 range now - those who have any interest in value for money would be best served to put $$ into other parts of the chain over this price tier of DACs imho

Yeah.... just get a cheap China DAC and you will be very happy. It will sound fantastic. As long as you don’t listen to other, better DACs, you will be fine 😂😂

ignorance is at the heart of bliss 

life in the bubble continues for some

I agree with you. Ignorance is bliss 

There are well designed American made DACs which are a fraction of the cost of an MSB. There is not really a lot of difference in DACs other than engineers chasing better inaudible numbers. MSB makes very well engineered DACs and it cost a lot to produce them.  I admire the complexity of these discrete DACs and the engineering that goes into them. If someone can afford them go for it but realize you're buying a boutique item not necessarily a better one. 

@djones51,

The argument or one’s opinion of what is ‘better’ is quite subjective and open to a endless debate, IMHO.

dCS doesn't get discussed much either.  Do I see a pattern emerging?

really expensive stuff getting less interest makes all the sense in the world, especially when the pricing is out of reach of most that might be interested - whether the item is better or not is only of tangential relevance

smaller audience deeming relevant to them

shdn't be any surprise or amazement

more people discuss porsches than bugattis

Vonsifered is my word of the day! :)

Th MSB Discrete DAC is expensive.  I looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc,).   There is the base price of the Discrete DAC PLUS extra costs for the Optical/Coaxial modules, the balanced XLR module, (AES/EBU), the MSB UUB Inputs, the MSB Network Renderer V2 and the MSB ProISL Interface.  

Yikes, I thought I was finished and then the issue of power supplies was discussed.  The standard is the single Discrete power supply but they STRONGLY recommended a 2nd Discrete power supply.  AND, for even BETTER sound, I should purchase the Premier Powerbase for another $7,500.  

I never heard the MSB Discrete DAC because it costs more than I wanted to spend.  Their higher end DAC's are even more expensive.  

Not sure where you were looking @hgeifman but the Discrete DAC comes standard with:

Digital Inputs:

1x RCA Coaxial
1x XLR
1x Word-Sync
2x Toslink
2x Advanced isolated input module slots

And ... XLR Analog Outputs (comes standard with them)

It also comes standard with one (outboard) Discrete power supply. The second one is extra if you opt for it to separate the power for the digital and analog boards.

I know. Because I own one

@thyname,  Thanks for the information.  When I priced out the MBS Discrete DAC, they said the options I wanted were extra costs.  In any case, I understand what you are saying.  Thanks.  

There are two empty slots. Modules. That is IF you want to add extra. I did buy one, the ProISL/ ProUSB module combo.

What I copy / pasted above comes standard. I can assure you of that. But you can look for yourself:

https://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/discrete-dac-options/
I also understand what you are saying too. Very expensive for you, and obviously you will find extra many stuff to make it even more expensive to justify your thought process. Human nature

@thyname,

One thing I really appreciate about MSB DAC’s is their modular approach. Maybe someday I get an opportunity to audition a MSB DAC in my system :-)

One thing you can't find on MSB website is measurements. They posted them at one time then removed them. 

HiFi news compared some high priced DACs. Chord Dave was top, then Mola Mola , various dCS then last MSB. Whatever that's worth.

Im going to hopefully listen to msb dacs 35k and 55k...insane but ill listen. 

nyaudio98,

Good call. The proof is in the listening. In the end what really matters is your ears. Please post your feedback afterwards.

And to the measurement crowd; frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn :-)

wrong forum.

the vibe here is a significant portion of posters get their panties in a bunch with expensive gear. which is neither good nor bad, it just is simply the lay of the land and it’s not changing any time soon.

so why would an MSB owner (such as myself) fight the headwind when other forums are not that way? who needs the grief?

i’ll chime in when asked a direct question like now, but otherwise it’s listed on my audiogon system page and i’m not going to worry about it.

Good idea nyaudio98 , if you get a chance listen to the Mola Mola to compare. If I had the money to waste that's probably the one I would buy, unless I bought the Kii 3 with the BXT stack. If you're in NY try Legendary Audio Pro and give them a listen and forget about DACs and amps. 

Dow Jones: fuck the measurements. The proof is in the listening. Not in the reading stuff in the Internets. Forget about Mola Mola. The most you can afford right now is the China topping DAC. Which is better than the $2 DAC in your top Audiogon contribution. By the way, Mola Mola Tambaqui is like $15,000 MSRP. The second main honcho in ASR has it. But for some reason, he keeps mentioning he bought it because of the looks. Not the SQ. Whatever that means.

And let’s be real. Can you REALLY afford a Tambaqui? I suspect a Topping is as far as you can go.

Hey @mikelavigne : you are spot on. I wish I had your testicular fortitude in approaching these Dow Jones types.

Actually I have no idea what DAC I'm using they have become that irrelevant. 

yeah sure. Your $2 DAC. Also, a DAC is not even a part of the audio signal chain 😂😂😂.’

So my question to you is: what are YOU doing on an expensive DAC thread? Why is it relevant to you when you think DACs don’t matter?

Serious question.

Thank you! And yes! Dow at 50,000!

My question is why are you addressing me. My comments are to the OP. You can pound dirt.

Dow Jones: why every single “contribution” of yours in here is about how everything does NOT matter to sound quality?

Serious question.

Dow Jones 50,000!!! Yeah baby!!

By the way it’s Dow Jones 30. Not 51. I get it you are almost 70 years old next year, but for the sake of clarification.

Crossing fingers the social security trust fund does not run out of money for you. 

Hi @mikelavigne : I just checked your audio gig under he Systems. It’s by far the best system I have ever seen in here. Congratulations! Well done!

That's correct I haven't the slightest idea what DAC I'm using if you know which DAC is used in Dutch and Dutch 8c's then you know more than me. I'm not sure what's used in the Kii 3 and I still would advise the OP to give them a listen with the BXT stack. 

@thyname

Hey @mikelavigne : you are spot on. I wish I had your testicular fortitude in approaching these Dow Jones types.

i don't really see my posting as approaching anyone. i had no such intent. just answering your question.

i do happen to think there are lots of modestly priced fine sounding dacs out there. so i do understand why it's hard for some to not connect the dots on what makes some dacs so expensive.....and whether they are worth it. the value equation is different for everyone......depends on your expectations.

personally i came to MSB trying to find a dac to be seamless in my system with lots of high level analog. that is a tall order. and the MSB does that better than any digital i have heard. my vinyl and tape are top level. 

so if you are simply wanting to improve your current digital, then the answer for you might be different than for me. and we can both be completely right. my only issue here on Audiogon is that so many opinions are offered without ever listening......mostly dismissing products just based on price. more social commentary than a hobby forum mindset. and so be it. i just don't happen to care much for it and it's off putting to me.

i certainly do not look down my nose at well performing modestly priced gear. nor should i. if i did i deserve scorn.

Are you really saying you can afford the Kii 3?? 😂😂😂. In your dreams. 

Hi @mikelavigne : well said. As much as it hurts, I ultimately agree with you. Part of the testicular fortitude I mentioned above, which I admit I lack. Kudos to you.

I also don’t look down my nose at well performing modestly priced gear. Been there, done that. Years ago. I just can’t stand people dismissing better stuff as snake oil, unnecessary expense. Again, I shouldn’t care, but I lack THAT testicular fortitude of not caring. Maybe I’ll get there one day. The key is not hating people like you, but trying hard to be like you. One day.

Peace!

No, I'm saying I have the Dutch and Dutch 8c. I considered the Kii 3. Hopefully the 8c will become roon ready at some point, they're working on it. You sir are an insufferable bore. I don't judge people on what they can afford. I'll try to help someone looking for a $99 DAC or a $55,000 one. 

Dow Jones: how can you possibly help people looking for a $55,000 DAC if you have never owned one? Even in your wet dreams

Msb is a very good dac but Waay over priced 
for less then 1/2: the denafrips  terminator + $6500
is as good or better ,and I have heard  both .

By advising them to not buy with their eyes but their ears. I've never had a $99 DAC what's that got to do with anything. 

Got it. A $2 “DAC” is as far as you can go. By I already knew this. So why are you posting on a MSB DAC thread? Helping people? 😂😂

i have heard the MSB Analog w optional powerbase and it gave my Aesthetix Pandora signature a serious run SQ and build quality dimensions, a real toss up decision. My reference in that fairly resolving system ( Poverty Bay Sound in virtual systems ) is against high speed half track tape ......

I agree with Mike to paraphrase something he said in a different drain swirl thread, “ the IQ of audiogon has fallen “