MM, MC, or MI cartridge

@rvpiano, I have 245 hrs. on my ML.

It went thru many changes in that time.

25,60,80 hrs. were all changes for me. Then @ the 213hr mark it came of age, sought of speak. I level my Head shell & not the arm (SME-309). Head Shell wires have a lot to do with the sound. Maybe look for OCC copper wire & or drop the rear of the arm if possible. I also have the Cadenza Black that I switch from time to time, but can't seem to get the bottom end rite for my likening. I hope this helps.

Thank you all for your help and very helpful suggestions.
 The Hana cartridge is obviously not for me.
I won’t be posting anymore or following this discussion.

An alternative is to go back to my Clearaudio Virtuoso cartridge that I thought damaged, but which now appears to be in pretty good shape. That cartridge sounded fine with most orchestral recordings, and also very good with audiophile pressings. The reason I switched to the Hana was, of course, wanting something better, and the reviews were outstanding.

Ignore the negativity.  The Virtuoso is a very nice cartridge, but the Hana should be noticeably "better".  I own the Virtuoso and have a Hana SL and have listened to the ML for a few hours on a friend's table that is setup very similarly to mine.  

I suggest checking and experimenting with your setup, including the settings on your phono stage.  You should get better clarity and detail with the Hana and a more neutral presentation than the Virtuoso.  I rarely listen to orchestral music, but the Hana should hold together better than the Virtuoso with difficult passages.  If you prefer something more "colored" or "lush", then it indeed may not be the cartridge for you.  Also check to make sure it's a good match with your tonearm. Do you have a test record?

I'm sure some of these things I mentioned have already been covered, but I don't have time to re-read the entire thread. Good luck!

Big Greg (and rv). Who was negative? The responses are of two types.(1) suggestions for altering the setup parameters, and (2) suggestions to allow time for further break-in, which makes a significant difference in my experience, particularly for MC cartridges that tend to be low compliance. My AT ART7 took at least 100 hours to stabilize, for example, and its compliance is actually higher than that of a typical MC.

Anyway, the OP has vowed to ignore his thread, so I expect he won’t be reading this.

Big Greg (and rv). Who was negative?

Post removed Jul 28, 2022

Very curious about MI.

Next week will install my new Grado Epoch3. And uninstall my Lyra Atlas SL.

Will report my findings on my Triplanar SE arm and Woodsong Garrard 301.

@mglik I’ve heard the Epoch3 very nice a bit smooth sounding and more laid back and not a forceful cartridge which can be good or ok depending on your preferences.

@mglik The Grado Lineage Statement 3 is a little brother to the Epoch 3. It is very quiet as far as surface noise goes. It's a decent cartridge, but I can't say it is better than the Nagaoka MP-500, which has a very similar MI design, and one third the price. Neither comes close to the London Decca Jubilee on my other turntable, and presumably will be even less comparable to the London Decca Reference when it comes back from a re-tip.

I ended up buying a second SME 10 in order to compare these cartridges properly. I expect after some back and forth I will keep one dedicated to the London Reference (it has a Series V arm), and the other, which has an M10/309 arm and interchangeable headshells of which I have three, will house the MP-500, the Statement 3, and one of my old LOMC cartridges, likely a B-M Ruby 3.

I'll be very interested to hear what you make of the Epoch. Moving iron designs are fascinating, and it's sad that new London Deccas have stopped production as John Wright has run out of armatures and the company that made them has gone out of business. The Deccas are often difficult to suit to a tonearm, though the Jubilee and Reference are much easier to mount and enjoy than the older designs, and have a remarkable sound that leaves other designs struggling in their wake.

Nagaoka MP500 is MI???  I always thought of Nagaoka cartridges as MM types.

I went to the Grado site to read about the Epoch3.  It seems like a high premium to pay vs their slightly lesser products for cocobolo wood case, gold coils, a sapphire cantilever, and a stylus shape that they are a bit mysterious in describing but might be elliptical. For about one-third the price, you can have jarrah wood and a boron cantilever (the Statement3).  However, the proof of the pudding is in the music each cartridge makes.

Hope RV does not mind us playing on his thread.

If the Decca Londons were available, that is what I would have bought.

But IME with the $13K Lyra Atlas SL, the top line, very pricey cartridge clearly justified its high price and lofty position. I moved up from a very nice Myajima Shalabi. The difference is SQ was shocking. By far, the most improvement of any upgrade in my system.

The Atlas is amazingly good. But I do need to give it a rest. And, to begin with, the Epoch3 is 4 times the output of the Atlas-1mV vs .23mV. So it seems like only that will make the Grado very dynamic. And I am pretty convinced that the Grado will sound very different. Maybe I will prefer it.

My system has recently made a tremendous change going from big box dynamic speakers to Quad 57s. The Quads powered by my AGD Audions have so much newly heard emotion that frequently brings me to tears!

I am very curious to hear what the Epoch3 does to the mids, etc.

At least one review calls the Grado, “the world’s best cartridge”. Let’s see how many grains of salt I take with that.

@rvpiano - Just in case you do peak in & look at this thread again... I really like the Virtuoso cartridge. It sounds wonderful in my system with a Thales Easy arm. I've tried other cartridges with this arm (MM/MI/MC) from my cartridge harem, & although they all sounded good after proper meticulous set-up, the humble Virtuoso shines with the type of music (electronic/electronica) I listen too most. 

Change of heart. 
 Hana ML finally broke in enough and sounds fantastic.

I'm glad to hear it (as, I'm sure, are you!)

Cool. Break in is an important part of nearly any audio component.

Hello,

It sounds like your trying to decide what you want to buy. I would ask: 

1. What is your budget?

2. What is the turntable and system?

3. What kind of music do you listen to?

I know some would say it doesn’t matter what music you listen to and on what equipment, but it does. 
In some eras of recording the recording and process could be less quality than you expect. Like someone said above that MM carts can smooth out the playback which is what you might need for some 70s and 80s recordings. If your into Jazz or classical or want to pay $35-$125 for a great recorded album then I would go MC. MI can be awesome but sometimes you do need the correct phono stage/ preamp to hear it correctly. Sound Smith make some of the most innovative carts in the world. One of the cantilevers are made with a cactus needle. Just awesome! You can call them and let them explain their lineup. 
good inexpensive MM

Sumiko Pearl-$110

Nagoka MP110- $140

Goldring E3 $160

Ortofon 2Mblue-$250

Good inexpensive MC:

Dynavektor 10X5 mk2 $800  - Shibata stylus  

the cool thing about the 10X5 mk 2 is it comes in high output or MM setting on the phono stage but is still a MC. Also, a low output version that needs the MC setting on your phono stage. Yes, I have listened to all of these  

Ortofon Quintet Blue- $600

Hana SL- $800- one of the best value for money carts  

Ortifon Quintet Black- $1100- has a Shibata stylus-

AT- Art9/x- $1100-  

I will tell you that I would go with the Dynavecktor 10x5 Mk2 in high or low output  

It is the best value for money like the less expensive MM above. I have this cart on my Linn Axis. I have the Ortofon Black Quintet on my Mark Levinson 5105.  Just remember you will be going down the rabbit whole sometime in the future so these options are a great start  

beyond these I would really do your homework because the world is your oyster and the prices really clime from here on. Also, some of these new turntables come with nice carts like the Fluance RT85 for $500  it comes with the Ortofon 2m blue or the MP110. I know this was a lot of information but I am trying to guide you in the right direction so you can save your money for the vinyl. 

A word on the HanaML: IT KEEPS GETTING BETTER!