Mcintosh MC462 versus Luxman M10X

If McIntosh was brittle and gritty must have been a system issue.

I’ve owned both 601s and the m900. A single Lux isn’t enough in the bass for inefficient speakers like Magico.

@rman9 Glad it worked out and glad I could assist.  Keep us posted.

@woots Thanks for the valuable input. You are right, I'll be living with this decision hopefully for a reasonable amount of healthy life time and I'd have to trust my ears. Your input rang in my ears when I was at the dealer :)

@overthemoon Thanks for the kind words!! My first dive into good equipment was Parasound gear.. I had a Nakamichi amp and a Pioneer Elite for the longest time, like 10 years or so, something flipped in me overnight and I wanted to revive my audio experience. I wanted to update the theater receiver and ended up ordering the Rotel 1580, ended up finding ROTEL discontinued the model and the local dealer kept playing me  wrong after taking the money and finally got tired of them and pulled the plug on that order., Right after that bad experience, I bought the Parasound A21+ and the Parasound 5.1 systems with the P6 halo preamp from a excellent dealer across the country. Within months I realized a local dealer here carried Mcintosh and I was beating myself for having bought the Parasound gear without researching cause Mcintosh has always been something that I wanted to delve into. I went into the store and when I walked out, they were loading the C53 and the 462 into the back of the trunk of my car. Within weeks I was back into the store and this time it was the Magico A3s and Luxman D03X and the Mcintosh MA352. The DAC on the Luxman simply blew away the DACs on the C53.. From then on it's been a constant itch to move from Mcintosh to Luxman although I love the MA352 and will keep it for the sweet tube sound. But the combo of the Luxman C900U and M10x and Magico A3 is so much to my liking that I decided to swap out the c53 and the 462 with the C900U and M10x.. So there is my journey in a nutshell. Hope I didn't bore you with all the details. But I am content with these choices and once I get the c900u in place when I get it in June, I'll share my experience of the combo.. I have already heard it at the store and it is just exceptional.. 

Awesome OP...enjoy your journey.

My journey is similar to yours.  My first really high-end equipment was McIntosh and when I upgraded from an entry level DAC-Streamer it opened my eyes to other manufacturers and the 'house' sound each has.

For me McIntosh was a needed step in my journey and I appreciate the higher transparency and resolution I am getting.  And I learned to be very deliberate in listening to 'high end' components. I no longer listen to anything that is in the realm of possibility of me buying it!  I know there's a lot of great gear I haven't heard and would love.

@jeffreyw Thanks!! will do.. 

@rman9 

Congrats!! Please update this thread as to your opinion of the sound quality when your system is fully broken in.

Best!

Got the M10X delivered yesterday.. not the demo, but my new piece that I ordered.. Absolutely in love with it. I let go of the 462..   Unfortunately, I have to now sit and wait for the C900U, earliest is June delivery.. I gave up on pairing the C53 with the M10X, combo sounds very bright and thin.. So I am using an older Nakamichi as a preamp, and that paired with the M10x sounds good, but miss the C900U demo unit.. Just have to be patient to get the one that I ordered.. 

@dep14 

I am a fan of McIntosh and its heritage. However, open up the internals of a Luxman product and you be the judge. Japanese build quality is second to none. Even look at the Rotel Michi line. Their build quality is astonishing for the price paid!

@eugene81 When you metioned JA perspectives, brought a smile to my face. I had the JA RM22si's for the longest time. Loved them.. I traded them in recently. I had reached out to Jeff and I was supposed to have had a phone call facetime from him to discuss the Perspectives and the Pearl. Mostly the Perspectives.. But I did not hear from him and I took it as a sign that it wasn't for me. I did not attempt to push it. I bet you love those perspectives. I'd be honored if I end up being the first few to experience the M10X in my system.. The pressure is on.. :) I'll be sure to keep you posted. The tactile feeling of touching it at the store.. The twinkling of the VU meters.. It's a fine machine..

@erik_squires it's all good.. I am glad you gave me some hints and all I needed was a little nudge :).. Agree, the liquid middle range is so enveloping. And I think you have taken the words out of my mouth on the brittle and gritty. I use to have the Parasound P6 Halo 2.1 preamp and the Parasound A21+ amp, and when I switched to the C53 preamp and the 462, I have to admit I was a little disappointed. Something was missing. I can't judge the 462 yet as it sounds good with the C900U. The C53 is leaving my rack for certain. The M10X has the first 12 watts in class A which I think is going to pair well with the Magico's. They sounded awesome together at the dealer. Guiseppe Verdi La Traviata Overture cut through me elevating every nerve and bone and bringing me almost to tears. So I can't wait to bring M10X home soon. Also the esthetics on the M10X is more to my liking than the M900U. I like the sharper edges of the front face.. 

@rman9 That is great news--glad your dealer came through for you!  Not surprised at all that you loved the demo and C900U in your system.  Your listening pleasure should only grow from this point.  Exciting!

I love the M800a; it's driving Joseph Audio Perspectives.  It's not as detailed and not quite as transparent as the 900u, but sounds more natural to my ears.  It does run very hot though.  There's so much heat dissipation that it almost feels like air is being gently blown through the top vents.  Maybe an M10x will be in the cards for me if I tire of having a space heater in my room.  Still, I think it's a shame that Luxman didn't keep at least one highly class A-biased power amp in the line up.

Please do let us know what you think of the M10X after you've had some time to get familiar with it in your system.  I think you might be the first person on the internet forums to share direct experience with it!  All of us Luxman fans have been waiting for reports.  😄

@rman9  So glad you found what you liked!  Forgive me for not saying more, I did not want to bias you the wrong way before you made your decision.

Yeah, I'm with you in terms of the sound quality of one vs. the other.  The extension at the bass and treble, the liquid midrange.  I find the Magico line to be a bit cool to start with, and I couldn't imagine you liking a Mc sound with them.  Honestly to my ears Mc sounds brittle and gritty. The combination of smoothness and coolness in the treble in the Magico + the smooth output of the Luxman in the top octaves makes it an amazing combo. 

@jeffreyw @erik_squires @eugene81 and everyone else on this thread, Thank you guys.. I felt transformed and smitten with the Luxman combo at the dealer: the system as a combo of D03x, C900U, M10X and A3. I brought home the C900U and swapped out the C53 and I am running it through the Mcintosh 462 into the A3s. Simply put, let's say you go to a symphony.. The Luxman makes you feel like you are in the symphony hall, the Mcintosh C53 feels like you are listening to it in another room with a recording on a good quality sound system. The sound from Luxman feels guttural, the growling of the voices, the hush, the striking of the cymbal, touch of the piano keys, the distant oboe,  I can keep going.. I will stop.. But I am pretty much sold on the C900U.. The dealer after a requisite time of having the M10X burn-in has promised to bring it to my home so I can try it out.. 

@jeffreyw 

Just curious where you feel the build quality differences are between the 462 and the Luxman gear.

Mc462 is an extremely powerful, and contrary to others beliefs, neutral amp.  I find it more neutral than my previous Pass Labs.  It’s built damn well, like all McIntosh gear.  McIntosh gear wouldn’t last so long, if it wasn’t built so well and with excellent quality.  

Now my C2700, not as neutral.  But, I knew that getting into tubes.

I’m sure the Luxman gear is also well built, as the examples I have seen and heard are also well built.

Sound different - absolutely.  Both excellent.  But to say Luxman’s build quality is better than McIntosh… not sure I would agree.

@jeffreyw Thanks!! Other systems the dealer carries, Boulder and Audio Research.. 

@rman9 

I will be powering a pair of B&W 802D3s with the new system. As far as speaker burn-in, along with system burn-in. I believe I needed at least 200 hrs. The results were dramatic, at least a 200% improvement.

Good luck with your audition! A word of advice, the new Luxman system should blow away the McIntosh system (as it should, almost 3X cost), so it is not a fair comparison. You should have some more fun and then compare Luxman to a system similarly priced. Let your ears be the judge!!

Thank you Eugene!! This message hit me at the right time.. I am a bundle of nerves and giddy with excitement.. I have the audition tomorrow at my dealer for the C900U connected to the M10X (The first and only demo unit that they got on Tuesday) hooked up to the A3. On top of that, I'll be  bringing the C900U for a home trial in my system, If all goes well, I'll be swapping the C53 for the C900U and the 462 for the M10X. Both units are less than 5 months since I bought them, and the dealer provides a trade up 100% for any unit I buy from them within a year as long as its twice the price. Of course the M10X I'd have to wait as it would have to be ordered. And I really appreciate your kind balanced words that helps me re-enforce how I am approaching this. With Mcintosh I have the MA352 also recently bought and I love that, and I'll continue to enjoy that and I'll not ever trade that one in. It might be the tubes that makes it sound so pleasing.  How do you like the M800a? what speakers do you drive? Will let you all know how it turns out.. Wish me luck :) Thanks again... 

Since you are already falling in love with the Luxman DAC, I'd bet that you'd be very happy upgrading to the M10X.  I had an MC452, had a Luxman M600a, auditioned the M900u, and currently own an M800a.  I really liked the MC452.  I could live with it forever if I had to.  Their autoformer amps have a distinct tone and texture that I find very enjoyable, natural, and unique.  That said, if I put on my audiophile hat, I find that the Luxman gear is just more refined and nuanced with more detail, air, microdynamics, speed, but also gorgeous tone.  There are many lifelong diehard Mac fans, but the praise is more about musicality than technical prowess, so I think it depends on the kind of audiophile you are.  Since you like your Magico speakers a lot, I think you will really appreciate what the Luxman gear brings to the table.

Also agree that Mac isn't well regarded for their source components.  I had a C8 pre with DA2 and found the DAC section to be okay, a decent implementation of the Sabre chip, but nothing to write home about.  

The dealer is expecting one stock unit of the 10x in about two weeks.. The Essence stereo is class A all the way right? what speakers are you driving? I like the Magico A3's a lot. It's been only a few weeks since I got them.. They seem to sound better everyday... Not sure if speakers have a burn in time also..

@rman9 

I had a CODA 16 fed by a Naim Uniti Star. I got rid of CODA because I am moving. Will be liquidating the Naim also and starting from scratch. I would like to pair the Essence stereo direct with a DCS Bartok, MSB Discrete, or Lumin P1. Looking forward to the journey! I'm sure it will be a while until dealers have the Luxman M10X for demo. 

Jeffrey, will keep you posted on whether I go for the C900U and M10X.. What Amp are you, or contemplating moving from?

Thank you!!

 We have the Luxman DA-150 DAC, it has the same DAC chip as the DA-250.  The main differences between the two is the DA-250 has balanced outputs and a remote control. We also have the Luxman SNQ-150 Tube Integrated amp, and the two together produce a clean, pleasing sound. Don't think one can go wrong with Luxman. Good luck on your decision.

Erik, Before I consider moving to the Luxman m10x, I am planning on auditioning and borrowing the Luxman C900u for a at home trial from the dealer.. That'd help me with the question on the C53 preamp's DAC as to how it performs with the Luxman 's C900U. And thanks for re-enforcing that I should trust my ears more than anything.. 

Thank you all, I have to admit I am totally confused.. The MC462, it's less than maybe 5 months since I bought it from the dealer.. They have this option, where if I switch to something within a year of purchase that is twice the price they take it back 100%. That's part of the reason for the temptation on the Luxman 10x. As that amp is a recent launch, they won't have that for a demo.. If I get it, it would be ordered for me.. So the dilemma. I also realize, that I could be chasing my tail in this hobby..  BTW, I also have the Mcintosh MA 352, and I love that thing.. One other question, has anyone had experience with the Luxman DA250? 

Not sure about current Mac products, but a Luxman L507UXll will probably be my next amp. Very musical!

All the best.

JD

Mcintosh isn't really known for their source components.  If you like the sound through the Luxman DAC then be satisfied.  You can chase your tail in this hobby so tread lightly. 

Owned McIntosh monoblocks for many years. While looking to improve my sound in my speakers I demoed Luxman and found it much more musical and detailed.  Luxman also goes much lower on the ohms scale which when combined with my Martin Logan Esl15a’s at the time were a much better combination than the McIntosh and Martin Logan’s.  I ended up going the tube route with Audio Research but if I would have stayed SS would have purchased Luxman. You will live with your decision a long time so don’t rush and trust your ears. Much success!

These amp brands sound so very different, that perhaps you are wondering if your hearing is accurate.  Yes, it is.  The difference, especially in the treble, is real. Pick the one you like better.

While the MC462 is an excellent amplifier for the price, it is not up to the quality/performance of Luxman. I think moving up to the new M10X would be a monumental leap in performance, albeit for almost $10K more! I am in a similar situation and contemplating the M10X or the Gryphon Essence stereo. 

When I run the Lumin streamer through the Luxman DAC, the clarity that I get, I am not hearing the same when I run it through the C53 Mcintosh's DAC.. It sounds a little thin and less clear. So I am making a leap here to think that the Luxman brand would be more to my liking with the power amplifier also. I could be totally wrong.. As to why I am not thinking about switching the preamp, I really don't have a clear answer on that.. 

It depends.

I've owned Mc amp/preamp and enjoyed it very much.

When I was looking to upgrade my amp/preamp I did compare Mc with others and noticed a difference I liked.  I then did upgrade to a different brand.

Every manufacturer's goal is to be just the music and the reality is there are many compromises for every piece of equipment.

If you are 'missing' something in your system that's the problem to solve.

Just because you have heard the Luxman CD Player in your system doesn't mean the McIntosh components are an issue. They are fantastic.  Is there something missing in the way your system sounds now?  

I cannot respond specifically switching from a Mcintosh cd to a Luxman cd, however I owned a Mcintosh pre amp and power amp for many years. I switched to a Luxman 590AXII integrated and have never looked back. It was a huge improvement. That said, they sound very different and some like the Mcintosh sound. But I felt the Luxman was just better sounding in every way. The build quality is excellent also. Hope this info is helpful.