Magico A3 vs. Joseph Audio Perspective vs. Spendor D9
Hi All,
I have been doing some research over the past while and am currently in the midst of a search for my next floorstanding speaker that costs around ~$10k. My other thread that I posted in this forum gave me a lot to consider. Rather than post there, I figured a most focused thread would be a good idea. Now, I have distilled my choices to these 3 choices... I think.
Power: I will be powering the speakers with a SET amp (48W per channel). Sources: Most of my sources are digital (Roon/Tidal). I mostly listen to jazz, classical and female vocals. I would appreciate a speaker that provides that good, snappy bass where I don't need a subwoofer. Room: Large room (will be in the living room that opens up to the kitchen and then the dining room). Aesthetics do matter here.
I have received a ton of help through the forums already during my search and have now narrowed down my speaker choices to (in no particular order):
Magico A3 - No issues driving these speakers with my amp. Tested and they sounded wonderful. Very analytical and super clear details. Tight bass as well but maybe more weighted in the clarity/details than warmth, even with my tube amp.
Joseph Audio Perspective - No dealers in WA or OR so no way to test these but have heard wonderful things about these speakers. Sounds like imaging/sound stage is a strong suit along with clarity. I wonder how bass performance is though as these have smaller woofers compared to my other choices.
Spendor D9 - Have not heard these speakers yet but am trying to find a local dealer that has them in stock.
Another one that I am still thinking about is the Daedalus Argos but I would like to hear some feedback on the top 3 at this time.
At the end of the day, the most repeated advice is also the best: only your ears will tell you. You can try and reduce your list of possible candidates based on reviews or forum posts, but you might be knocking your ideal speaker off your list in the process.
For example, as I said before, the D7 and the D9 have got lots of good press, but when I heard the D7 against the Spendor Classic 100, I much preferred the latter. You might prefer the D7. No one can tell you.
I also auditioned the ProAc D30R. Didn't like it, despite having owned and loved an older ProAc product for many years. Several people whose opinion I respect highly praise the D48R highly. Go figure.
Right now, I'm focusing on Harbeth. Ultimately, instead of wondering about dozens of makes and models that you read about but have no chance of auditioning in person, you have to narrow down to what is practicable (stores within reasonable striking distance, audio shows), and then do the leg work, unless you're willing to gamble that a speaker you'd have liked even more is round the next corner.
I'm enjoying this thread immensely. Audio really gets more interesting when people dwell on their subjective impressions/experiences of this or that speaker, as compared to spec-wars about them.
It's also quite amusing to see something play out here that I see on every audio board I've ever participated in: a bunch of people talking about sound, and somebody (or multiple somebodies) shows up to urinate all over the conversation w/dubious theoretical clams about science, specifications, whatever other constructs they use to avoid hearing & experiencing things IRL...
There must be factory somewhere that turns out these guys.
@twoleftears Totally agree with your view that it all depends on the listener’s ears. I personally didn’t like the Harbeth 40.1’s that I heard paired with both Primaluna and then Naim gear. While the midrange was musical, details and clarity were lacking. Some love Sonus Faber Olympica’s and I found to be OK.
What makes this difficult is knowing that there are other potentials, such as the Perspective’s that I won’t be able to hear before buying. But, you can’t have everything :)
@dantheman76 Awesome, another local. How are you liking your 805ia and the D7's? I have heard the D7's at Hawthorne but not with the LM obviously. They sounded fantastic and I can only imagine that the D9's are better all around.
Guys, I have made a decision and put in an order. Spendor D9's will be mine by next week. I expect to love these based on what I have heard in the D7's but will report back with thoughts, especially compared to the Magico A3's after I get a chance to listen to them. Thanks to everyone for their participation in this thread. Let's keep that discussion going as I think there are many that are considering the $10k speaker range and this thread had some great insight that others will benefit from.
I do not think you will be disappointed. Please update us on their arrival. Which finish did you select? Breakin was about 50 hours but they sounded very good from the moment they were connected.
@drrsutliff I got the dark walnut finish. Counting down the hours to the weekend when I pick them up! I have heard that after a few months, they sound incredible but that they do sound great right out of the box as well. Either way, I'm excited to find out.
I have seen the Walnut in a D1 and it was very nice. I choose the basic Cherry as it works with my cherry trimmed rack and other wood in the room. Enjoy. Make sure to get some sleep after they arrive...
@
twoleftears
: Could you please explain a bit why you preferred the Spendor Classic 100 to the D7? How would you describe the sound of the Classic 100? Thanks a lot! Sorry everyone for the offtopic. I'm highly interested in the above mentioned Spendor Classic 100 and there is very little information online about their sound...
@donquichotte Hmmm, this is always difficult, but to me the Classic 100 gave a more full-bodied sound, right across the spectrum from treble to bass. There was more there there. The illusion of being in the same hall with a large group of instruments. Something that I've started referring to, in my own shorthand, as wave-launch. The sound hitting you. I imagine good planars have it too. In comparison, to my ears on that afternoon in that room and setup, the D7 sounded rather thin and rather tipped up to the treble, more Twiggy than Gina Lollobrigida.
This likely does not help, but the closest sound I've heard to the Classic 100 is the Harbeth 40.2. As their design and provenance suggests, they are not that far apart--not surprising. With the major caveat of different systems and different rooms, I'd say the Spendor was a touch more "technicolor", a touch more meaty, and the Harbeth a touch clearer, a touch better at delineating musical lines. But all that may be down to other factors, and my impossible dream is to hear them side by side, to do a proper comparison. The place where I heard the Harbeths, I also heard ProAc D30, and my reaction to them was very similar to my reaction to the D7.
I realize that this is not a "majority opinion", but I still think it's a valid one.
Thank you so much! I've fell in love with a pair of Spendor SP2/3R2 driven by a Densen B175 integrated a few months ago and I'm planning to buy
hopefully next year
a new setup most likely based on some Classic series Spendors, but listening to them beforehand might prove difficult and I was torn between the Classic 100, Classic 1/2 and perhaps the D9... And yes, a used pair of Harbeth M40.1 was another idea...
@twoleftears Definitely a valid opinion. Many people love the sound of Harbeth's. I had heard a lot about the musical midrange and I was very excited about listening to them. When I heard the 40.1, I was disappointed. Midrange was there but felt that the top end was lacking in detail and clarity with a bottom end that was not as dynamic or impactful as I would have liked. Goes to show that we do not all have to have the same preferences.
Freesole, congrats on your purchase of the Spendor D9’s. They were high on my short list to audition before I purchased my Magico A3’s recently.
Unfortunately, I couldn’t get their USA distributor to provide me any location to audition the D9's closer than a eighteen hour drive from Roanoke, Virginia. They did have a distributor with the D7’s in Baltimore, which I considered going to, but in the end decided against taking a chance on the D9’s without actually hearing them. Similar issue with auditioning the the Joseph Audio Perspectives prof likes, their closest dealer being no nearer than somewhere in Pennsylvania.
I’ll be very interested in reading your impression of the Spendor D9’s once you have them set up, and how they compare to the Magico A3’s you listened to.
Also if you feel they have a warmer sound that the A3’s could you explain what that means to you. The concept of warmth is lost on me. I’ve been many live performances and concerts and none of them had any sound I’d describe or understand as being warm, so I don’t understand what that means in terms of sound reproduction. Maybe I’m just dense. I’ve listened to a few very expensive speakers like some $35,000 Focals, that maybe were warm sounding, if I understood what that quality was. I just thought they didn’t have enough clarity. Maybe I’m warm deaf, because I just don’t hear it.
To use an analogy, what I do hear is the difference between looking at a crystal clear aquarium, and actual snorkeling and swimming with fish in clear Carribbean waters. To use an audio analogy, maybe analog music is warmer than digital. I don’t know, but I need a reference of some sort to make the concept understandable.
Maybe the Devore, Focal, Vandersteen and other speakers I listened to were warmer than the Magico’s, (I have no idea) but all I could hear was their being more like a beautiful aquarium than the Magicos, which removed some indescribable clear glass barrier. That’s one of the man reasons I liked the Magico A3’s so much. I still would of loved to audition the D9’s and Perspectives though. Maybe they would have revealed to me what musical warmth is.
The concept of warmth is lost on me. I’ve been many live performances
and concerts and none of them had any sound I’d describe or understand
as being warm, so I don’t understand what that means in terms of sound
reproduction.
That's fascinating.
For me, "warmth" is one of the central characteristics of live acoustic instruments and voices. It's what is generally lacking in reproduced sound.
I'll try to explain what I mean.
For me there sort of two notions of warmth. There's a richness in terms of a filled out, round tone, vs a thin, squeezed, hard tone. And there is warmth in the sense of timbre. Woody resonances sound 'warm.' The resonating body of my acoustic guitar is "warm." One of the things that a speaker has to do is make materials sound like the materials they are, so wood sounds like wood, not like some electronic or plastic recreation.
Human voices are "warm" because they are come from human flesh vs plastic or metal. But in many sound systems, singers sound to me as if made of non-human timbre - there is an electronic, artificial timbre, not "real human flesh and blood warmth."
There's also warmth in terms of harmonic complexity.
I was streaming an internet radio station devoted to acoustic guitar pieces through my iMac 5K computer yesterday. The iMac speakers are suprisingly decent given what the design enforces on them. But though one could identify all the types of guitars being played - acoustic steel string there, classical here, 12 string there - none actually sounded as guitar sound timbrally. All were blanched of tonal character, stripped of complexity, like little plastic toy guitars.
I picked up my own acoustic guitar and played along. The difference in sonic richness was really something. A single string played in my real guitar sound richer and more complex than an entire guitar through my iMac speakers. Even a steel string had a feeling of "warmth" compared to the crappy reproduction, insofar as it sounded of such a rainbow of tone, so round. When I play my real guitar, my mind sees warm colors of wood, golden string harmonics mixed with silver. Most guitar recordings played through speaker systems sound detailed, but tonally grayed out. (As was the case when I listened to some super transparent, pricey speakers at a pal's place recently).
So "warmth" to me is that organic, real richness, harmonic complexity - the real person vs robot thing.
Finally, going back to the first version of warmth: the size of the sound.I find a common aspect of reproduced sound to be a diminution of the richness and size of an instrument. Everything sounds squeezed, stripped, compressed. If you hear a real sax played in front of you, or trombone or trumpet, it stunning how the sound is so BIG and blooms and fills the room. By comparison, most recorded instruments sound like you are watching them from the event horizon of a black hole, as they are being squeezed tiny. A single acoustic guitar string pluck, a single bowed string on a violin or cello, is so much thicker, has so much more body and roundness, than in most reproduced sound.
And that's a sense of warmth that I like as well. (Warmth being in that case a sense of feeling the sound, of the instrument moving air).
So some rare speakers for me manage to convey the sparkling harmonics and woody body of an acoustic guitar similar to what I hear in real life. Some portray a particularly rich, physical sense of body (e.g. Devore "O" series speakers being a nice example).
Given warmth is such a feature of real sound to me, it's something I've strived for my system to display, or impart. I have some Thiel 2.7 speakers (if anyone things all Thiels are bright, or thin, these would dispel that in a moment), and I've used Conrad Johnson Premier 12 tube amps for decades, as they impart an organic richness and roundness to the speakers. And of course paying attention to speaker positioning and room acoustics has helped me avoid artifacts I find artificial, and dial in that timbral warmth.
When I was at my friend's house listening to some super clear and detailed speakers he has at the moment (will leave them unnamed for now), I was unmoved as NOTHING sounded organic and warm. I'd compare the sound of the vocalist on the recording to the real voices of people speaking in the room, and the difference was stark: even 'natural jazz vocal recordings' sounded electronic, processed, steely around the edges, hard, made of the wrong stuff, compared to the wet, damped, fleshy timbre of real speaking voices.
But...at home when I replayed some of the same vocal tracks, as well as some of the same trumpet, sax pieces, THERE was that organic warmth I was missing at my friend's place! Big, rich, round, not hard, with the right tonal color, not dark, not bright...just naturally warm. I compared it to my wife's voice as she spoke and, unlike the other system, the sound from the speakers was beautifully continuous with the sound of a real voice. It sounded warm and organic. It was tremendously satisfying.
Sorry for blabbing on, but this whole "warmth" and "tone" thing is something I'm a bit obsessed with, so there ya go.
BTW, as I must have mentioned, I auditioned the Magico A3s.At least in my audition, they didn't quite do that warmth thing I crave.Though they were stupendous in many respects - that clarity and resolution, without brightness, and a super sophistication in rendering the distinctive details between instruments. I wondered what I'd think of them if I put them on my CJ amps, and tweaked them at home.
@skyscraper Your question of what constitutes "warmth" is an interesting one because I don't think there is one strict definition. @prof described his view on warmth and I agree with most of what he said. Some think of warmth as the system adding color to the music but I disagree. I think a system that is able to reproduce true-to-life, real sound is what I would call warm. I think of sitting in a low lit, intimate jazz bar as being warm because the sound of that sax, bass and piano just seems to float around you. You can feel the impact of each breathe and the pluck of the bass string. Saying all that, I don't know that I have heard many speakers that could reproduce that feeling and sound to my ears well.
I also struggled with the choice of speakers for a while. I found it surprising that Seattle did not have many dealers for the speakers that I was looking at. I'm glad I was able to have extended listening sessions with the A3 and the Spendor D7's but I was not going to be able to listen to the Perspective. Despite the very strong and convincing thoughts on the Perspective, I thought it was going to be a risk that I did not want to take. After hearing the Spendor's, I thought it had a lot of the strengths of the A3 but sounded more laid back and "warm". Knowing that the D9's would have much better low end performance, I couldn't help but think that this speaker would be the best solution that sits directly in between my choices of the Magico A3 and the Joseph Audio Perspective. We shall see if they are :)
The Magico A3's are wonderful speakers. You're going to enjoy yours for a very, very long time I reckon. It's ability to render music that is so cleared and detailed without being shrill or fatiguing is something quite special. I would not call the A3's warm however. These speakers have other strengths (which they are very strong in). With Hegel gear, I thought it sounded somewhat cold and almost over-indexed on being analytical. With a good tube amp, I found it really opened up and was much better to my ears. Ultimately it is up to your own preference and as long as you enjoy the music coming out of your system, that is all that matters at the end of the day. Musical preference is so subjective and no one person can decide what sounds good except yourself.
Prof and freesole, thanks for taking your time to provide your thorough explanation of what "warmth" means. I understand better what that frequently mentioned expression means now.
Next time I’m up in Pennsylvania I’ll try and check out those Joseph Audio Perspectives, and if I visit family up on Long Island, there must be a dealer somewhere around NYC who has the Spendor D9’s to listen to. That will solidify my understanding of both your explanations, and provide a contrast with Magico A3’s sound.
I’ve read where some individuals have paired the Magico’s with tube amps to achieve a warmer sound. I heard them demoed with a couple of mono- blocks which I can’t recall the names of, not the Hegels they had on hand. They had a full rich sound I would have never thought to have described as over-indexed or overly analytical (another term I honestly don’t quite understand the use of either) or I might have been put off by them. I’m hoping the Luxman 507 MkII will approach the mono-blocks sound.
Shkong, I have looked at Mark of Silnote’s site previously. That’s a good suggestion to revisit it as he’s local, and to give him a call. I’ve read equally convincing opinions on various cables being the greatest thing since white bread, to their being nothing more than a hoax. If he could provide some loaners I could figure it out in a heartbeat. Thanks for the reminder of this local resource.
I've heard the A3s on Vac monoblocks at the LA Audio Show and me and two others found them dynamically restricted and kinda dead sounding.
I've heard the D7s numerous times including at a local dealer and find them far more musical sounding. They worked particularly well on a Jadis integrated.
There are very few absolutes in audiophilia beyond it's playing music//there is no sound coming from it.
So, the majority always knows best?
Or, to look at it another way, so many factors feed into sales of a particular product, how can you take sale figures as an indicator of pretty much anything (other than we should all be buying shares in Magico).
By producing lots of very high-priced speakers reviewed deliriously in Absolute Sound, they created a mystique around the brand. There are other factors too. So when they come out with a good-sounded, highly competent 10K speaker it's hailed as something really special.
It *is* really special to the people who hear it and really like it. It *isn't* to those that don't. Both judgments are equally valid.
Has anyone came across the output impedance and or dampening factor of the Line Magnetic 805ia.
Also has any one came across impedance values, curves, phase angles for the Magico A3's. Maybe I am looking in the wrong places; all I have been able to find is the crossover maybe a modified 4th order.
3-way network features a 24db per octave Linkwitz-Riley filter that maximizes frequency bandwidth while preserving phase linearity and minimizing intermodulation distortion.
Sensitivity: 88dB Impedance: 4 ohms Note: does not state if sensitivity is at 1 watt or 2.83 volts
Hard to imagine what people are hearing. I always regarded Spender as a mid-fi product. I think that the Dynaudios at that price range are much better speakers and the Magico A3 is in a completely different league altogether then the Dayns.
Got my Spendor D9's yesterday! Early first impressions are that the detail retrieval on the D9's rivals that of the A3 but the A3 does it just a tad bit better. Granted, I am not listening to the A3's on my home setup but my first thoughts are that the D9 does not trail very far behind at all at the top end. Very good detail portrayal on the D9's without ever sounding harsh or shrill. Very easy to listen to speakers that still give that detail fanatic satisfaction.
Midrange is gorgeous. Love guitar, piano and jazz playback on these speakers. So smooth but again, without losing that detail. I know it is so subjective to dub a speaker, "musical", but that is the word that I would describe the D9's as.
Much better low end on the D9's than the A3's in my personal opinion. This is without spikes on hardwood floor. Solid thump that is tight but with impact. I'll be adding the Gaia II's and assessing the difference after I install those shortly.
At the same time, I'm testing out the difference in power cables from the wall to my power conditioner (Niagara 1000). The cord that I am auditioning is the Audioquest Thunder vs my Pangea AC9SE Mk II. First thoughts are that the Thunder lowers that noise floor ever so slightly. The level sounds higher on the Pangea however... As a result, it sounds a bit more "dynamic" but the Thunder performs slightly smoother without any of the rolled highs. Still evaluating but the Thunder is a solid, solid cable.
Hard to imagine what people are hearing. I always regarded Spender as a mid-fi product. I think that the Dynaudios at that price range are much better speakers and the Magico A3 is in a completely different league altogether then the Dayns.
A brand is not universally better than another. That much should be obvious. Magico's have very high end speakers, yes. But while they play primarily in that ball park, the A3's are $10K speakers that compete in a very competitive price range. That is where is becomes subjective. Not to say that the Magico A3's aren't great speakers - they are. But to my ears, they aren't leagues above their $10K price range competitors. Not by a long shot.
If you appreciate some of the characteristics of the Pangea Cables the designer, Jay Vincent, who designs for AA to a "price point" is the designer of the Clarus Cables which are in a similar price range as the AQ cable you are testing. Again congrats on your Spendors as I think in the long term you will be much happier than you would have been with the A3. As you are finding the Spendor's are among the group of "musical and comfortable" speakers that don't draw attention to themselves they just make music.
A brand is not universally better than another. That much should be obvious. Magico's have very high end speakers, yes. But while they play primarily in that ball park, the A3's are $10K speakers that compete in a very competitive price range. That is where is becomes subjective. Not to say that the Magico A3's aren't great speakers - they are. But to my ears, they aren't leagues above their $10K price range competitors. Not by a long shot.
Agreed; It has been ~ 1 year since I sold my Magico S1s to purchase Spendor D9s and I'm very happy with the D9s and ultimately enjoy listening to my music more with the D9s. I had both speakers in my home system at the same time before deciding to go with the D9s. Plus, my system had been 'tuned' to mate well with the slightly cool and ruthlessly revealing Magicos (e.g. Pass Labs 250.8 + SimAudio 380DSD DAC; both are a little warm and super musical).
I spent 3 enjoyable years with the Magicos and do not regret owning them at all. To my ears the S1s offer some advantages over the D9s, and visa versa. Over all though, I much prefer listening to my favorite tunes on the D9s. @freesole, enjoy your D9s !!
@freesole -- these are new speakers, right? If they're not broken in and you already like what you're hearing, I think that's a great sign. Be interested in what changes you hear as the D9s break in. Congrats on a great pair of speakers!
@soix Yes, these are brand new. They do look very sleek and aesthetically pleasing :) I have heard from a few people that have heard the D9's that they should sound great out of the box but will really open up after a few months of play. I'm excited to hear those differences too.
@ddafoe Thanks for those listening notes on the Magico S1s and the D9's! Another person I spoke to had heard the A3's and the D9's extensively and ultimately bought the D9's as well. He gave me his thoughts which ultimately led me to buy the D9's without listening to them (even though I had heard the D7's). I'm very happy with the choice already but suspect that I will enjoy them even more after some break-in.
Congratulations on receiving your D9s. They will sound good out of the box but get better after a few hundred hours. Mine even sounded a little worse around 50 hours but that could have been my over analysis. They respond to room placement and some experimentation is recommended after they are more broken in. I listen to mine daily and am never disappointed. They only down side is they encouraged me to continue upgrading some of my source equipment as they only perform3d better with each positive change. Look forward to your impressions as time passes. Rick
@freesole Congratulations for your purchase! Please continue posting here about the break-in changes.I wonder how do these D9's compare to the Spendor Classic 1/2 and Classic 100...
@drrsutliff Interesting to hear about the experience you had with the speakers changing over the break-in period. Should be interesting to hear that as I break these in. After getting the D9's, I have been very interested in some of the incremental updates I can make to my system. Updated a bunch of power cables to Acoustic Zen's and Audioquest's. Made some changes to interconnects as well. The tweak's just don't stop coming :)
OP, How did the D9’s work out? Still have them? How did your electronics shake out?
Don't see myself changing these out anytime soon. They've given me everything that I could have imagined wanting to hear out of a speaker and they look great to boot. Super happy with mine.
I own the Spendor D9 and have listened to the D9.2 The new version has a little different crossover to address the originals tendency to be a little to “revealing” in the highs. I found this trait to actually being the original D9 able to reproduce any “issues” that exist upstream in the signal path. Correct those issues and the speaker performs exceedingly well and allows you to hear every system improvement. The second change was removing the grill pegs and having them totally magneticfor a cleaner look when the grills are off. I like the D9.2 but there is not near enough difference to consider a change. Mine current VAC preamp and Ayre power amp show no issues with the original D9 except to much time spent sitting in front of them...
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