Looking for a Speaker Recommnedation
It's starting to look like I may have to bring this budget down. Would prefer to be $5k or < now. New or used is ok. Resale will also be a factor since I'll want to have the option to sell and not lose too much if I don't like the speakers in my environment. Out of the speakers being discussed which are the top 5 in holding their value? I would assume the Maggie's would be there. Anyone have resale thoughts on some of the comapnies that sell direct (Zu, Tekton, Spatial)? |
Yesterday, I got to hear Goldenear Triton 1 and a bunch of Bowers and all the Bowers and Wilkins 800 series speakers(at two different dealers). I didn’t know much about the Triton 1, but I have to say that for $5K, that is some pretty dang good stuff. Not going to win any beauty contests, however, if that is important. Ribbon tweeter, great sound stage, nice cymbals, good dynamic impact, pretty well defined bass guitar lines, pretty deep bass. The salesman there claimed that the Triton I had been compared to the B&W Nautilus and was judged to be its equal. Next, I heard all the 800 series at Magnolia Design Center at Park Lane in Dallas. I had likewise not heard B&W speakers in decades, as the rap back in the day was that they were not the most accurate speakers, possibly designed to be "euphonic’. First, IMO, the 800 D3 series are a bigger jump in sound from their lower lines than is the case with many speaker companies. I first heard the CM10 S2, which sounded nice at $4K. But then I heard the 804 D3, which actually appears to have less cabinet volume than the CM10, but somehow B&W gets more and way better bass out of the 804, along with much better mids and highs. The 803 D3 seems awesome, with REALLY deep bass for the size of the speaker. I don’t know how they do it. The 802 perhaps was not a great match for the room, as it didn’t sound quite as good as the 803 to my ears. Now, at $5K, I’d really have to look hard at Goldenear Triton I. Most well known name brand speakers at $5K are just pretty small speakers, with limited bass extension. The CM10 S2 are very nice, but don’t go deep at all. Dedicated Audio may still have this set of Focus 380 for $5K, which would be awesome, as it launched at $10K. https://www.dedicatedaudio.com/collections/floorstanding/products/dynaudio-380-floorstanding-loudspe... |
Look at full range listing on Agon today for $4K-$5K. There are a couple of pairs of Dynaudios, Acoustic Zen and Reference 3A which are all more sophisticated than the GEs, as value-for-money as those latter are new. And it would be hard to go wrong with the Focus at $5.5K. The trade-off is 50% saving vs. likely not being able to audition before purchase. |
Re: depreciation. I would say resale of new items is roughly 50% original price, in general-Which is why I buy used. You are more likely to recoup the money spent buying used should you decide to sell. Which is why, since you have no local dealer, it would be good to take advantage of Zu and Tekton's trial period. With that said, I still encourage you to see if you can either come down to NJ to listen to the speakers to, or to find another Agon member who will let you listen to the Vandies or any other speaker you are considering. There are a lot of nice members here. |
twoleftears - agree looking used on some of these is the way to go. Starting to do that more gdnrbob - thanks for the info. Good general rule. I am starting to lean toward new with trial period (Spatial/Magnepan/Zu) or used. New Triton 1's if I'm blown away and don't despise the looks. Or some of the Vandy's used. I think the Tekton's & Legacy's are just too monolithic for my space so I'm starting to move away from them as options |
Late to this post but I moved from the British sound of Harbeth SHL5 to Dynaudio Contour S3.4. The LE version may be even better. Much different sound, like the protective film being ripped off. Transparent but not bright and will play as loud as you can stand it and very dynamic. The Esotar2 tweeter is one of the finest. |
One of the other gentleman gave you some great advice. You are not that far a drive from NY area. In one fell swoop you can go to Audio Connection and hear Vandersteen, Proac,B&W. Audio Doctor: you can hear: Legacy although big they are fantastic, PSB, Dali,Paradigm, KEF, ATC, personally if you are looking for a small foot print dynamic speaker a pair of ATC plus a small sub and some power will amaze you, one of the best speakers ever made for rock and they play super loud. Most modern rock recordings were mastered on ATC. As per the new vs used argument, many dealers have good deals on demo models which may have a nick or two but come with full warranty and support and we have many models which would fall under that umbrella buying used is cheaper but most speakers don't have transferable warranties and if you blow up a driver you may eliminate your savings. Also with purchasing through a dealer you are almost always guaranteed support and advice on getting the best out of your new speakers. Woodbridge sells the Golden Ears. I have heard them three times at shows and dealers, and got totally different demos one they were too bright the other too dull the bass is impressive and they do play loud. I do agree with you they are ugly unless you setup up to the new and much more expensive Reference version. So in one day you could hear almost every speaker you could want to audition. If you are a rock guy Magneplaners are not the best, Spatial speakers are interesting I have heard them at shows and was not blown away same with ZUs both were way to colored both do play loud. |
@twoleftears " There's one of those right now on Agon for $4.9K and further room to negotiate. How would the bass compare between the Focus 380 and the Contour S3.4 LE? " The 380 is rated deeper, at 30Hz, vs 35Hz for the 3.4LE. But that doesn't mean much as to the quality of the bass. The Contour is a higher line, and may have more bass articulation. Perhaps others have direct experience. |
You may want to consider products from Odyssey Audio. Many audiophiles feel that their products represent one of the biggest (if not the biggest) bang-for-buck deals out there. Klaus Bunge recently released a speaker that is astonishingly good and competes with speakers in far higher (and I mean FAR higher) price brackets. It is called the Liquid. Here's a link to it being discussed on Audio Circle: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=134874.msg1432249#msg1432249 His amps are amazing as well, and (as the speakers) represent one of the best values in high end audio. BTW, I have zero affiliation with this company... but am blown away by the sound and value. |
Audiotroy, I think this may be the second time someone said the Zu's are 'colored' and I don't know why that description was used. Zu's to me, are pretty neutral. Though I do agree with your description of the Golden Ear's- They are just not my 'cuppa'. And, if you do make the trip, just be sure to give the dealers a 'heads up' so they can make time to show you what you want to listen to. |
Some fine choices here including the ATCs for rock music etc....Legacy Focus SEs are very versatile and fantastic speakers at their price point or any other. The new version with the ICE amp(s) for the bass plus Wavelet would like the room on fire so to speak as the Focus SE was already a wonderful speaker from 16Hz on up (plus or minus 2db) but making it active with the Wavelet must be breathtaking. AERIS with Wavelet is in another league and at $19-$24K-ish retail (depending on use of Xilica or Wavelet and choice of finish), it competes well in the upper price strata speakers out there....The later designs on AERIS are less 'monolithic' by far, certainly worthy of a listen and look... |
IMO you are reading too much....I sometimes do the same you have a very fine near point source low diffraction near baffleless design in the speaker you own today and enjoy it seems except for SPL. that is a big big hint about what you should audition. make the investment to go listen. i am pretty biased for being able to tune the low end for your room used Quatros would allow you to do that... also you own some fantastic musical gear already !!!!! |
The Ohm radial approach is nice for less critical listening, in my opinion. I do like their sound, but a phase correct speaker like the Vandy or Theil would be a better in the long run-again, my opinion. I saw those Quatro's at Audioconnection last week. I would contact Johnny Rutan and see if he is negotiable. If you do want to come down, let me know, I could pack up my Zu Union speakers and we could demo them with the Vandys. Bob |
I agree with the dealer above about used vs demo. Not even a question for me. I just can't buy a used speaker or transport. When I see a used TT, I'll look as you can tell if someone takes care of their gear or not. Too many horror stories about used speakers and blown drivers that sometimes even the owner didn't realize (yes, believe it). I purposely replaced the surrounds on all three pair of the Proacs I sold a few years ago, because Proacs foam surrounds only lasted about 10-15 years max before disintigrating. |
After hearing them on youtube, I purchased some Klipsch La Scalla II (arriving tomorrow). My first "Good" speakers were horns (Allied Radio boxes w/12 inch acoustic suspension woofers & horn tweeter/mids). I like how the klipsch (105 db efficient) open doors for trying low-power, high quality amps (First Watt, Cary, Air Tight, etc). I'm keeping my Thiel 2.4SE, but may sell if seduced by the Klipsch. The first album through the La Scalla will be 'Zepplin II. I'm drooling already! |
Hi fdemello I think you’re dooing a mistake here Instead making a list of short options and start to eliminate some choices ,you are expanding it more and more .there is endless speakers around you have to focus on the best options you think is suitable for your needs and start audition them otherwise you’ll be confused and out of control.... |
IMO you are reading too much....I sometimes do the sameI do tend to research things to death tomic601. Usually leads to a good decision though - although a sometimes painful journey :-) Ultimately I have 17 years with the Rogers and while they are good speakers, it's time for a change. Thanks for the feedback & advice I saw those Quatro's at Audioconnection last week. I would contact Johnny Rutan and see if he is negotiable.Thanks for the offer Bob. Probably won't be able to get down there until Feb sometime. Will check out AC's demo section |
I think you’re doing a mistake here Instead making a list of short options and start to eliminate some choices ,you are expanding it more and moreHi itzhak. Part of the process maybe but agree the list became too large. I had already started eliminating many options based on my research/looks/size/pricing (used & new). Thanks |
"I think you’re dooing a mistake here Instead making a list of short options and start to eliminate some choices ,you are expanding it more and more" I agree...but it happens frequently here. Someone can post a list of 1000 speakers they are considering and invariably someone will find a couple more they should add to the list. We are all just trying to help but it is easy to overload yourself with data. |
Probably a good list. I won't go in order, but my impressions of these speakers (yes pretty familiar with all of them). Hot high end. Cant' listen to Rock that was not recorded properly as my ears burn. Lot's of thump in the bass. Pretty reveiling. Sweet sounds with very little imagining or sound stage. No true detail A nice speaker that can be peaky, but it does more good than bad. Hard to rock out on as it doesn't move too much air in the room. Huge sound stage and nice imaging. Very detailed, but still a bit veiled. Dynamic, but needs to be played at loud levels to achieve this. Moves decent air, but not the most tuneful. Overall a very good speaker Best of the bunch. Most detailed, will be truthful to the recording, but the smoothest highs on the bunch by a country mile. Tight tuneful bass. Most dynamic with no smearing. Will move enough air for all types of music. Basically, the poster gave a set of speakers that all sound very different and behave very differently from each other in a room depending on boundaries... |
Guys, I won't say which is which so folks can go listen and make up their own minds. Those are my own thoughts on the speakers. All my post was saying is that said poster put together a list of speakers that all sound totally different from each other. Yes, it's obvious that I'm a Vandersteen guy as they do virtually everything and over the many years Richard has been designing, he's realized where most folks don't mind a corner to be cut. NO speaker is perfect an it can't be right now. All have to make design choices. To me it came down to which company got their corner cutting right. I just didn't want a speaker that was literally turned up at all on top or couldn't be tuneful down below and still move some air. All stand mounted speakers were off the table at that point. Hey, the footprint of a floor stander is the same as most stand mounts anyways. I needed a speaker that threw a realistic and sometimes large sound stage and also had great imagine. I was coming from Proacs and that's what they are known for. I personally don't like buying from the huge conglomerates if I can help it. I'd rather support the smaller companies. I love some of the Audio Research gear, but will buy Aesthetix or Ayre over it since they sold. As I've said, I also need a speaker that is dynamic as ALL levels and there are very few that ever get that right. Some of you don't care about listening at lower levels, but I live in a real home and my listening room is a loft. I'm just thankful that Johnny Rutan helped me set it up so that the sound is as good as what I used to have when I had a dedicated room (well 90%). The one thing I've also learned over the years is that you can't look at a speaker and know what type of technology is in it or how much time it actually takes to make it. Some companies make their own cone assembly's and send them out to the top driver maker to finish them. I like this approach as the company can control their sound better than using off the shelf drivers, even modified ones. Some companies are large enough to roll they own from start to finish. When I look at a cabinet (this is the major thing Wilson markets and sells to folks), how's it made? Does it really reduce vibrations that can smear the notes? Some companies have a very simple way to brace a cabinet. Materials are important of course. One company builds a cabinet within a cabinet AND used damping material in-between. I make wood furniture and really appreciate a professionally finished speaker too. I always notice how a company matches their veneer's. Some companies use real wood veneers, but very thin ones like the furniture in the 80's. Wait til you get see a nick and you'll understand. I personally have now gone painted on my Quatro's that are being built because I love the color I]m using. I like the fact that you can order a speaker painted over veneer if you want to. It gives the speaker a totally different look for whatever room you are matching. These are just my own personal tastes and many will disagree. This is why there are so many speaker companies who come and go. Many just don't have "it" for the long term. Many make a great sounding speaker at a fair price, but aren't worth it to me. I loved Meadowlark years ago, but they were literally built out of the guys garage in San Diego if I recall. You can't give them away anymore and too bad if it blows on you. I guess that would be one case where stock off the shelf drivers would work best, lol. |
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Yes the old Meadowlark speakers for the money, were nice. the other problem I have with some companies is that they discount their speakers. For most, you think that's great as you can afford them, but in hindsight, it also kills resale value and in the end, most lose money. Folks are buying and selling audio gear at a rate never seen in years past. That's what Audiogon, Ebay and USAudiomart have done (in the US and other sites in other countries). To me, I always cared about resale value and that's why it's very rare for me to purchase gear from mom and pops, along with all the reasons I have shared. Not taking anything away from what they are building, but they also don't have economy of scale, so how much are we really saving? Take company A vs B. A has been in business for well over 25 years and sells a ton of gear that is considered some of the best in the business AND sold for a fair price with pieces that constantly hit well above their price classes. B is a mom and pop and has been in business for 10 years, but the first 7 or so were a hobby business. The owner, manufacture is also the head engineer and marketer. Using the internet, they market their gear and sell a bit. They have been great at getting their gear in the hands of the power writers who have great things to say about them. They have a very loyal base of fans who they sell direct to. They most often will discount their gear at large discounts, because they can cost it out higher and make it look like folks are getting the deal of a lifetime. In the end, their gear is selling for where it should sell at a store, but since it's direct and their marketing budget is basically giving their gear to a few reviewers and asking clients to blog and do write ups on various sites, they keep their overhead fairly low. They give good value for the price. A has ads in pubs and also offers gear to reviewers. They may sell their product to the write if they want it at commendation cost (maybe around 50% off). They are selling many more pieces than B and have economy of scale. They also are a real company size wise and can pay a lot more for true R&D and have many engineers working for them. Company A has only a 38% markup and not 45 or higher like some of the other companies out there. A doesn't allow their dealers to give discounts on their gear. If a dealer does give someone 10% off list price, they are taking that from cables or other larger mark up items. A's gear usually keeps a much higher resale price vs B. B's gear is marked down a ton at the first sale and most folks realize this and offer even less than the 50% markdowns for second or more sales. Company A's gear also has brick and mortar stores stand by the gear and allow you to bring it home to listen to it in your system. they offer all that stores offer for set up and their knowledge. Where are you getting the best buy? There are always some exceptions, but I've been around audio for so many years now and I have been fortunate to know so many in the business and to discuss these issues. I'm close with a few mom and pop engineers too and love some of their gear. Heck, I love Steve Nuggent of Empirical. I've had so many talks with Steve about life, woodworking, restorations of homes as well as his take on audio and his products. I owned his DAC and LOVED it. I have nothing against smaller companies, but for many reasons, I won't be purchasing from any in the near future. Again, that's just me. I'm as cheap as they come and need to save money to maximize what I can afford. I don't have a large wallet, but as Bob has shared, I do care greatly about having the best sounding gear for the price. I dont' pretend to knowing it all. My posts may come off that way, because it's not easy for me to write in the tone that I'm feeling most of the time. That's a hard thing to do and most can't. that's why we often have major disagreements on boards, when in fact it's just banter over beers and we all respect where the other is coming from. Hopefully when folks read my posts they understand the passion behind them and the respect that I have for most (not all, lol). Thanks for reading if you have. Pete |
