Looking for a new phono preamp

Hi psychoticreation

Take a look at the PS Audio Stellar phono preamp. Stereophile did a nice review and Michael Fremer loved it. I believe he gave it a analog product of the year award. It’s solid state. Has plenty of gain (72db) does both mm & mc cartridges. Retails for $2500.00. They sell direct to consumer and I believe they offer a 30 day trial period with a full money back return policy. Fremer said the midrange clarity and transparency was as good as any of his cost no object phono preamps. I would give it a try. Good luck.

Scot

 I owned one and it is easy to use and sounded very good, although I did sell it after about two years and moved up to a Luxman EQ500. BTW - I also owned a Herron VTPH 2A and I thought that it sounded great on classical and jazz, but not so much on rock.

I purchased a new VTPH-2A from Keith directly and received it about 2 weeks ago. I’ve been using it all day every day since (I work from home and my listening room is my home office). I’m guessing I have about 160 hours on it now. I did not want to comment until I felt it was broken in.

 In regard to using it with rock, I listen probably 60% to rock and blues, various genres. I find it excellent for rock.

 Timing and pace is everything I want from my analog system, especially considering I’m using an average preamp for the line stage. It’s very dynamic, both macro and micro, and I’m definitely hearing great results. Also, my records somehow seem quieter, maybe it’s from a blacker background, but also I think I’m hearing less ticks and pops.

 I’m going to be looking for a new preamp in the near future that I hope will bring out even more.

 Maybe something in your system didn’t interact well with the Herron, or maybe it’s just personal taste. I’m thrilled with it so far with all genres.

Haven't read thru entire chain but curious has anyone in this thread considered a Strain Gauge cartridge thereby forgoing a phono preamp? It is something I'm contemplating myself.

From low to high iFi phono 3 black label, JCJR+, Kitsune LCR MKV, Modwright PH9.0 and 9.oX

Way too late to comment here, but seeing the early suggestion for the RCM... and have to add... the Sensor II is wonderful. I actually preferred it to the Herron. The only MC I used was Zu DL103 but it felt like cleaning dust out of the crevices of the music, without overly polishing upper timbres or thinning the mid bass or bass. If you move on from Herron at any point, it’s worth a try. I actually traded mine to TMR in exchange for the Herron LOL.

Pods?  We don't need no stinkin' pods. :)

A friend of mine turned me on to an excellent DIY isolation platform perhaps the best platform I've ever used.  He calls it the Boos-Penn platform.

Tried the tape thing, green dots and various other similar tweaks.  Didn't do a thing for me or the sound of either of my systems, other that part me with some cash.  If they work for you, great.

I'm looking forward to find out what kind of effect it will have on my system.
Prediction: transformative. Mine was a revelation. Read my review. My wife did not know what I had done, or indeed if I had done anything at all, but just kept asking me, "What did you do?! It is so much better!" On and on. This was hearing through the closed door! When I told her, she came in and sat down, her eyes wide open, could not believe it. This was after years with the ARC PH3SE, hardly a budget phono stage. The Herron made it sound weak, thin, distorted and colored- and not by a little, by a LOT! 

Hook it up, enjoy, let us know. When you are ready and funds allow, put it on some Townshend Pods, stick some fO.q tape and SR ECT in there, you will be yet another level higher. There's even better stuff you can do in there but for that sorry to say but for now we have to keep that off-line so PM and I will hook you up.

Hopefully Keith gave you a deal--he did for me 8 months ago and i couldn't be happier with the Herron--replaced a MS Phonomena II although i didn't have the linear power supply so perhaps didn't give it enough credit--disagree that the Herron doesn't do rock well but then again i don't know what rock is supposed to sound like when you're inside the band. Enjoy and post your thoughts in a few months.

Ok, so the  Herron is on it's way.  I'll be posting more on this once I get it into my system, and I'm sure I will have some questions for the owners of the VTPH-2A.

Thanks to everyone who had suggestions, I looked into almost every one.  I have to admit I have wanted to try on of the Herron products since I first heard a demo in the early 2000s, so I took a chance on a used unit.

I'm looking forward to find out what kind of effect it will have on my system. 

Hi

I would strongly recommend looking at the new PS Audio Stellar phono preamp. All the reviews are very positive. Retail is $2500.00. Solid state. PS Audio has a 30 day full refund trial period. According to Stereophile Michael Fremer says it is a giant killer. Definitely one you want to look into. Good luck. 

Scot

Ditto on the Herron.   I have both the VTPH-2A and the Parasound JC3+....I prefer the Herron but you won’t go wrong with either.   

— Jim

"BTW - I also owned a Herron VTPH 2A and I thought that it sounded great on classical and jazz, but not so much on rock. (Not surprising since Keith has a classical music background.)"

I rarely post on the forums, but this is the second time I have seen this post so I will step in here briefly to make a much needed correction. I have played piano and drums in bands, orchestras, jazz combos, and rock groups. I like all those genres and more. I have also designed guitar and bass amps along with audio equipment. A phono stage is not right unless it does all genres equally well. The end result in any audio system is how well the entire system is matched to deliver correct timing which brings life to the music. Much like all the lenses in a telescope which all must be in focus, everything in an audio system counts. (That also includes the tubes you are using) - Keith Herron

Check out the Tavish Design "Adagio" phono stage with the beefier transformers at $2400, which comes in at your price point. The only downsides are that there is a 5-6 week wait time and a 5% restocking fee for returns within 30 days. I owned one and it is easy to use and sounded very good, although I did sell it after about two years and moved up to a Luxman EQ500. BTW - I also owned a Herron VTPH 2A and I thought that it sounded great on classical and jazz, but not so much on rock. (Not surprising since Keith has a classical music background.) I felt that is slowed transients and made the music too "soft" sounding. The person I sold it to, loved it.

No, I won't share.  I can't be sure who it was, if it was one of them, and I would not want to disclose this information without evidence.

@phychoticreation can you share those who PM'd you? These forums are getting so sad. Initially they were good for information now is just another way to sell.

Allnic H1202 is dead silent.
Its MC sounds at least as good as my $1000 phono pre (Magi Phonomenal) and $1000 SUT (Live! MC10).
Sound sample:  
 https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=ZOOM0004.MOV

Musts?

"I've got a hard upper limit of $2.5k"   -partial fail

However, $50 over wasn't significant enough to me to let this one get away. , I'll give you half a point on this (generous at that).

" I'd prefer solid state, tubes get noisy too fast." - fail.
" I'm looking to buy new." - fail

~.5 out of 3, I guess that's not bad for a troll, and guess trolls can't bother actually reading.

I'm guessing you're one of the members here who PM'd me with an offer that I didn't take you up on.  Very sad.

Lmao, OP: "I must have 3 things: 1) SS phono, 2) it must be new, 3) I have a hard limit of $2.5k" and ends up with a tube phono, used, over budget.

Thanks to everyone for the advice.  I have looked into most of the suggestions that fell near my budget limit.  

But...

I have located and arranged for the purchase of a preowned Herron VTPH-2A so close to my budget that I could not pass it up.  It was purchased new in 2018 and I am purchasing it from the original owner.

I am looking forward to adding it to my system.

Thanks again!

You can’t go wrong with the giant killing Channel Islands Audio PEQ-1 MKII ($995); but you really need to add the optional power supply upgrade for another $299. Audiophile friends whose ears I trust like it better than the Parasound JC3+ that gets all of the raves. I don’t know how it compares with the new kid on the block PS Audio Stellar piece. All I know is that after over 40 years of being in this hobby and now having a revealing, world-class system, the CIA unit fits in fine and makes beautiful music. BTW, it’s among the 800+ products in the March TAS Editors’ Choice Awards.

Ear 868, or Ear 912: one of the best I heared ! Very natural, and open sound . Metronome Technologie: what a sound!

Herron, all the way. The VTPH2A is so good, for the money, it must be recommended to anyone with anywhere near the budget. It just seems you have to spend an awful lot more to be even a little better.

Yes it uses a FET, so not an all-tube design. But it does not sound SS, nor does it sound exactly tubey. It just sounds great. Keith runs his tubes conservatively and uses warm-up circuits, a combination that results in very long tube life. 

You can call and ask, he will know. When it comes to tubes there are three kinds of people. Those who replace them way more than need be, those who don't, and those who worry. Tubes last so long, look at it this way, my ARC PH3SE was used 15 years and sold with original tubes. So tube life is not a factor. Either you replace more often, or you worry. Never seems to be anything anyone can do to change this, it's genetic or something. Saves a lot of time and trouble if you can figure out which one you are.

Check out the Allnic H1202. Entry level phono Pre, But does a fantastic job. Also set up for 2 table (Arm) setup.

+1 Parasound JC3+
+1 PS Audio Stellar Phono

Both have the flexibility for future cartridge requirements. 
There is a lot of positive reviews on JC3 and the latter upgraded JC3+. Designed by the extremely talented John Curl who resume is vast as he has a designing hand in many manufacturers products such as Constellation Audio, Mark Levinson, etc. A proven established design.

The Stellar Phono is a newer 2020 phono stage designed by the somewhat PS Audio new hire young Darren Myers who impressed Paul so much he gave him the job. Darren is a fellow vinyl enthusiast who designed/voiced the SP to sound great and musical. Lots of positive reviews including Stereophile Fremer. I was further impressed after watching Darren Myers interviews on YouTube. A newer design that hit a home run at it’s price point.

I just sold a much more expensive phono preamp and purchased PS AUDIO STELLAR. It is really great and a bargain at that.

I am in the same situation. I will probably build my own with a tube rectifier power supply putting about 300 Volts through 100K loading resistors to the plates of a 6SN7 in two stages of amplification and a passive RIAA resistor capacitor network on the output and some 0.33 blocking capacitors to the preamp. I am not willing to accept the expense of MC cartridges which when they stylus is worn out you have to replace the whole cartridge and I don't want to deal with lead in wires to moving coils fatigue fracturing from too many hours of flexing with the vibrations of the moving coils. I am using a red Ortofon MM cartridge. It will be loaded with 0.1 mF and a 47K resistor. I have had good luck in the past
A cheap Chinese tube phono preamp sounds dead like the speakers are wrapped in pillows so it has to go.
I have been designing and building my own preamps and amps for over two decades and this gives me more freedom to use such things as polypropylene filter capacitors in my power supplies rather than have the inferior electrolytic capacitors I see in the power supplies of amps costing tens of thousands of dollars.

I am using an ELAC Alchemy series PPA 2, having moved up from A Musical Surroundings phonomena  II+.. I am very pleased with it and it is within your $ range, has SE and  XLR inputs and outputs and variable loading plus gain option. Fremer liked it and so do I. Check in out.

My reason for asking about the Herron is informational. As I said before, I haven’t completely ruled out tubes.

I don’t think I’m overthinking anything. I’m just trying to decide what to buy, and the information I’ve gotten from this thread so far has been extremely helpful.

okey dokey

good luck to you on your search and journey

A great value for an outstanding phone pre is the PH-16 from Valve Tube Audio. It is sold as a kit, but I had mine built for me by Troy, and with a Lundahl SUT added for low output moving coil carts, the price was around $1200. Without the SUT it is just under $1000 assembled. Yes, it is tubed (four 6922 tubes). It sounds incredible. Check it out athttp://www.tubes4hifi.com/PH16.htmor an even fancier option with different parts but the same basic design is athttp://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom%20tube%20phono%20stage.html

@ Gestalt is correct.  I've demo'd the Gold Note first hand recently - with Focal Stellias and Luxman L-171 w/ Koetsu Black Cartridge.  Exquisite.  The Quad HP is also nice and under budget.

My reason for asking about the Herron is informational.  As I said before, I haven't completely ruled out tubes.

I don't think I'm overthinking anything.  I'm just trying to decide what to buy, and the information I've gotten from this thread so far has been extremely helpful.

op

With regard to the Herron, am I reading it right that it is a hybrid design? The MC section is a fet based ss stage?

i think you are overthinking this

you run your gear lots lots of hours, tubes will burn out get microphonic need replacement - last i checked they haven’t fixed that problem about vacuum tubes

get a really good ss phono stage with plenty of gain and loading options - quite a few out there... be done, enjoy the music

not to say herron is not good stuff... it must be, there is a loyal, vocal following for this small proprietor owned outfit, excellent reputation - but if you want coffee and folks are saying tea because that is what they have chosen to drink, then is there really a debate? would herron put tubes in his phono stage and not have it in the signal path?

With regard to the Herron, am I reading it right that it is a hybrid design? The MC section is a fet based ss stage?

+1 with the Herron.  I tried several (SS and tubes) and decided from the comments in this group to give it a try.  I bought a used one that Keith upgraded to 2a status.  Dead quiet and Keith is a resource. Anytime I have called, Keith has personally answered (even on a weekend) and his advice has been spot on.  My unit, is dead quiet and even with attenuation at 12 o’clock I can’t tell if my phono is on, it’s that quiet.  I was waiting for the right Aesthetix Io to become available but am so pleased, I think my search is over.  Could not recommend more

Consider the curl phono stage in the audible illusions Modulus 3b 

How are dynamics and bass with Icon Audio ? What model do you have ?

I've had a good experience with tube phono stages.   I recently upgraded my solid state phono stage to an Icon Audio valve unit and there is much greater clarity and a darker (noise free) background.    

As for a phono stage recommendation,I would look into the line up from Whest.They are manufactured in the U.K.and only build high quality s.s. phono stages.Since they only concentrate on phonos,all their models are built to a very high standard,are dead quiet,and will probably last you a lifetime.I use the MC Ref V,but all the models,regardless of price,sound wonderful,and I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend them to anyone.I believe the lower priced ones start around 2k,but you would be hard pressed to find a better,more musical phono stage at any price point.Best of luck in your search for a phono that makes you happy,it can be a rough journey,buckle up! John

In the case of phono preamps, I would definitely at least look into the possibility of tube based ones. That’s not to say there aren’t some great solid state options out there. If you’re looking into a tube based unit, Tavish Designs makes some great sounding well thought out designs, which is why I own one. The owner, Scott Reynolds “holds a PhD in electrical engineering and has more than 25 years of industry experience in design engineering and engineering management, and he has more than 30 US patents.” That’s someone I trust designing and building a phono preamp. I hope that’s of at least some help to you, and good luck on your quest for a new phono pre! ✌️🎶
https://tavishdesign.com/

@psychoticreaction    
i have the ART9XA and it sounds excellent with my Sutherland 20 20.  64db gain, 200 ohms.  
i was previously running a much higher output .5mv mc.  the low output ART9XA .2mv is no sweat for the 20 20 and it's clean transparent dynamic capabilities.  it really proved itself with the XA.  very happy i do not need to think about SUTs and extra cables.  
peace and good luck with your choice.  

@clearthinker, nice of you to follow me around. I suppose you need the exercise.
I was at a demonstration Where the Lino C was being compared with the Herron VTPA-2, a tube phonostage $1000 more expensive than the LinoC. The cartridge being used was a Lyra Kleos a medium low impedance cartridge at 5 ohms. It was being used because it was not ultra low (the lower the better) and it is medium priced. It was loaded with 100 ohms. This was not mentioned but I drifted behind the setup and checked out the Herrons load jacks. I do not know what tubes were being used but I suspect whatever is supplied by Herron. The Lino C made it seem like there was something wrong with the Herron. Not kidding.
If I were to recommend a voltage mode phono stage in this price range it would be the Parasound JC3+. John Curl is the master of voltage mode phono stages. This unit would cost $9K if made by any one else. 
As for airplanes you must be pretty young. You don't remember the older planes. They had 10 times as many problems as new planes. I would get in a 737 Max long before I would get in a DC 4. American pilots had no problem managing the Max. It was only foreign pilots that crashed. All they had to do was turn the auto pilot off. This is not an excuse for Boing.
They will pay dearly for this one and should. The FAA should have been notified of the problem. Instead it was covered up. I also said modern jet liners. There are always anecdotes. Nice of you to pick one out. Would you like me to tell you which thread I'm going to next?

If your parameters for a phono preamp are solid state and budget $2500, then I can’t say enough great accolades about Logan “Ron” Sutherland and his designs which at that price point would be the 20/20 with the upgraded separate LPS.  
No bs, no fancy lights or other LED screens (it doesn’t even have a power on/off switch), just great engineering according to the experts and my experience- the quietest phonostage I've ever owned  which is his main focus.  And he is always a phone call away almost 24/7. Btw, he’s the Logan in Martin Logan but that was another life and all he does now is design and build phonostages.  

Thanks everyone for the responses.  I am looking into all your suggestions. 

As for the life of tubes, I listen to the system roughly 10 hours a day, a bit less on weekends.  My listening room doubles as an office, and I work from home almost exclusively.  This puts over 2000 hours a year on the tubes.  I have not completely ruled out tubes, but I would prefer ss.

One other thing I'd like to add is that I'm getting more interested in finding a unit with balanced outputs. 

Right now, the way my listening room is set up, the turntable is behind one of the Maggies.  I'd like to be able to locate the turntable in another area of the room.  That would involve moving it approximately 15 feet from where it is now.

That also means a cable run of approximately 35 feet (thru the wall, over the ceiling, and down to the equipment rack.  I'm thinking that balanced is the way to go if I decide to make that happen.

+1 Herron 
love love love mine
handle any cartridge
deadquiet
built well
Keith is a gem

@mijostyn   Dogmatic as ever.  Now you can choose phono amps without listening.  Worse you advise others on that basis.  No worry, they are sure to see through you.

As to airplanes, lucky you weren't on the two Boeing 737 Maxes that crashed, killing all their passengers.  Modern designs are very complicated and not always clever.  They were brought down by idiot software programmers.  Give me the DC4 with pilots any day if I want to stay alive.  Worse, Boeing would have carried on flying them if governments hadn't stopped them.  No doubt Boeing thought they were better because they were modern.  Ho hum.

The PS Audio is fantastic.  I owned one.  Moved up recently, but I made a huge leap.  For $2.5k, and I say this after 8 different phonostages in as many years, I think it’s a no-brainer.  They do have the 30 day return policy you mention.  

The only phono that I have any experience with so far is the Sim Audio Moon 110lp V2, which is in my system and been doing me well so far over a year.

And so I would recommend the big brother, 310lp.

I have read good reviews.

Never had any issues or noise from my phono and so I would imagine the 310lp would be much better. 

How do you like your D’Agostino ? Did you compare it to other integrateds or separates before getting it ?

$2.5k new phono stage is tough. I don’t know what I would choose without trying out at least a dozen. I mean, receiving and shipping boxes for a month or two on a regular basis.
You have to listen to them for yourself.

I too am new to the forum.  I have been busy assembling my ultimate system.  It all gets delivered next week and I hope that I can report back with my impressions shortly after that.  I have chosen the VTL TP-6.5 II phono pre amp that is slightly used (under 50 hours) that cost me $5,750.00. The main components are the D'Agostino integrated momentum and Sasha DAW's with an Ovation clear audio TT and DCS Bartok DAC.