I’m sensing a lot of pent-up pseudo skepticism here.
Looking For 90% of the performane of the super expensive cables for much less money
I currently have a system which consists of Vandersteen 5A's, THor Audio TP-150 tubed monoblocks, Thor Line Stage and Thor phono stage, Marantz SACD player SA-114 and will take delivery of the VPI Prime Scout with a Sumiko EVOS 3 Cartridge. I am currently using LAT International Speaker Cables, Power Cords and Interconnects. (They are no longer in business). I am in immediate need of turntable cables and would like to update my new speaker cables and interconnects. Not willing to spend thousands on this upgrade. Seeking to capture as much of the "magic" that the super expensive cables deliver but at a more realistic price point. I understand that I have really good quality equipment, but at this stage of my life cannot allocate mega dollars towards cables.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
307 responses Add your response
Peter, I personally don't like wearing watches and so I don't unless I am some distance from civilization. No, not Rolex, I got 28 years old never serviced Orient automatic that keeps decent accuracy. But I would get Rolex Explorer II if I could and needed it, or Submariner. Or Breitling Chronograph. Seiko must be kidding us - only 30 meters of waterproofness and glass case back. Military model ? But since they are very inexpensive I might just get it for fun and do some testing. Pride of ownership.. Interesting concept, I think. Same with audio equipment, including cables. |
@inna https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F271240646624 The most acurate and rugged mechanical watch ever - and I have owned several Rolex too. I get the pride of owner ship in a diamond crusted rose gold Rolex though. Good Listening Peter |
Rolex are very accurate though not the most accurate there is, time to service it. It also has proven reliability and resistance to elements confirmed by those who wore them in faraway places. Rolex is in fact a performance choice. I think, the OP is now enlightened beyond his tolerance, but cable subject is complicated, fun too. |
Blue Jean Cables. I am of the school that claim cables do make a difference. The differences are very dependent on the system. Proper AWG for speakers is important, and length makes a difference (mostly in rolled-off high end). Capacitance can be important, especially at very low signal levels (phono stage, for example). But if you are only shooting for 90%, anything will do. Blue Jean cables will get you to around 98%. |
Hello Kjl1065, I have put together something that sounds great. I’ve compared it to MIT 770s and it is just as clear with great bass and is actually better in the treble. Mapleshade Golden Helix 2 Anti cable Run these sidebyside and connect them together to amp and speakers. Both are solid core and in my experience, solid core sounds better as a speaker cable. Images are more focused. |
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kjl1065, So you are reading many posts saying, "I like this cable, and I will tell you why." How is this information helping you? Will you audition all 15+ suggestions? Flip a coin? Or will you "fall into" something and put it in your system? Why not optimize (previous posts, sgordon1 and geoffkait) the cables that you have already paid for, and then you can evaluate whether you have achieved your goals, or at least have come closer to them? |
I myself use MG Audio Design top end interconnects. I first learned about them from a review that the late Arnie Nudell wrote in which he mentioned that he himself used them. Later I learned that Paul McGowan of PS Audio himself uses them. At first when I learned that their top end interconnects went for $1600 for a one meter pair, they were still too expensive. But when I learned that you could purchase a half meter pair for $900, was finlly obtain them. I am unable to compare them to the really expensive stuff out there, but they are far superior to my pair of Audience au24se's. The Audience pair is their previous top end model. Anyway I doubt that there is anything out there that can compare for the price. Suposidly some members of the Colorado Audio Society also like them. Just ask Paul McGowan for his opinion. |
I am currently using a twisted pair Duelund 12 ga. for my speaker cable with Kle banana plugs. Was using them without connectors, but for switching components I decided to add the connectors with no sound degradation. Previously, I had been using Acoustic Zen Satori cables and had A/B'd them with the Clear Day cables. There wasn't enough of a change to go with the Clear Day cables and I like the Duelund best of all. I am also using the Audio Arts signature power cables with my components. I bought these on a special some time ago and they were a good value. I did a comparison with a $1,000 Shunyata PC. There was a minor difference in the "flavor" but for at least double the price it was easy to stay with the Audio Arts cable. I have some good things about the Oyaide interconnects buy I have not tried them. I am currently using some older Harmonic Technology Magic cables with no desire to change. |
herman Geoff, you got me there, conductive liquid. A wonderful marketing spin but at the end of the day they are just transferring energy from one component to another. You will never convince me that the $20,000 + you would need to cable your system with them couldn’t be better spent on some other part of the system or room. >>>>>Nor would I ever try to convince anyone who has already made up his mind. What’s the name for that? Oh, right, it’s being closed minded. |
dynaquest4, I have also mentioned elsewhere on Audiogon that many may buy cables because of the looks, but my idea has not been noticed. Oh well, maybe some day... I admit that I bought a pair of XLR interconnects just so they look "better" when placed where I do not even see them. Going from mid $10s to a few hundred. I accepted it was for the looks and it was worth to me on that level. The difference in the price was, to me, acceptable for that kind of game. As far as sound goes, if anything I would say it is "worse", but would not firmly claim that. The bad part was convenience. Pictures did not tell me that cables are not as flexible as the old ones. |
I am not saying that conductive liquid does not work, maybe even better than our usual hard metal cables. I have no experience and superficially see the reason for it being reasonable (I have not given it deeper thought). Maybe they are that leap that should shut up all the cable non-believers. I truly hope so. However, in the field of Audiophilia, anything that has properties that may approach those of oil will be fiercely debated. It must be an annoying uphill battle for the manufacturers. |
Geoff, you got me there, conductive liquid. A wonderful marketing spin but at the end of the day they are just transferring energy from one component to another. You will never convince me that the $20,000 + you would need to cable your system with them couldn’t be better spent on some other part of the system or room. Cables like that are for people who want to brag to their friends they spent over $20,000 on cables. Dyna, interesting point about a Rolex. I have one, Would never have bought one but it was my grandfathers and it is beautiful so I wear it. They really aren’t very accurate timepieces. They are jewelry and if you realize that then fine, people wear jewelry for a variety of reasons, just don’t ask me what exactly the time is when I wear it because it may be close but it won’t be exact. If you want accurate time buy one of Geoff’s clever little digital clocks. Not only will it keep accurate time, it will transform your room into a symphony hall. |
Cables are the most overhyped, overpriced components in the world. Come on people !!! it is wire !!!! The people paying tens of thousand or even thousands of dollars or even hundreds of dollars are idiots. I apologize to all of the idiots.Bravo, Herman! I’ve said this before somewhere on Audiogon but it applies to this thread…about WHY people buy expensive cable/wire when there is no reason for these “exotic” products to perform better than good quality cables of the proper length and resistance. Likely the main reason is that this stuff looks really great if/when you can see it. Those proud of these accessories’ visual appeal, have their equipment well spread…giving the viewer opportunity to see how well equipped and connected the audiophile owner’s system is. When systems are referred to as “music reproduction devices” (or other pompous definitions), they are really proud of their stuff. I have no issue with buying anything for the looks as long as you have the honesty to say so. If I bought a Rolex, for example, I would never say I bought because it is such an accurate timepiece. If I put the optional rear wing on my Mazerati, I’d never try to get you to believe I drive fast enough to need or achieve the downforce it creates. It, to me, just looks neat. Another reason is that if it looks good "and costs a lot, well….it’s gotta be good." A manufacturer can produce a cable of "exotic" design and beautiful appearance for, say, $5 a foot. He can then choose to sell it for $10 per foot or $750 a foot. If it looks good enough, he might decide to market it as exceptionally high-end and sell it for the higher amount knowing that those with a higher disposable income, but no particular knowledge of basic acoustic science, will assume if it is priced at $750 it MUST be better and will, accordingly, sound better. Once the cables are changed out their eyes will widen and their jaws will drop at the amazing increase in sound stage, transparency, texture and openness the new cables provide. And….this actually IS science...the field we know as psychology. Don't believe it? In another thread, people are buying $900 wall receptacles, burning them in for 500 hours (a critical step, I guess) and then raving about the eye-popping differences they hear. I kid you not.....plugs for $400. |
As others said, call TheCableCo and speak with Ethan. Good guy. Tell him what you want to spend and he can suggest a few options. You can borrow them for a week to 10 days and try them in your system. Then send them back. If you liked any of them, you can make a purchase or keep trying others. In-system trials are really the only way to make an informed decision. Or at least one that you will be happy with. |
Zavfino cables https://www.partsconnexion.com/1877phono-tonearm-cable.html Steve at Audio sensibility. https://audiosensibility.com/blog/ Another place to look, is at take 5 audio https://www.takefiveaudio.com/ |
ben77059 For grins, I then put in a pair of Monoprice interconnects ($16 for the pair) and I heard NO difference! The $16 Monoprice sounded exactly like the $1K Kimber. I had a friend come over, did a blind test with three of the cables. He pick the KK and Monoprice over the other cables, but could not hear a difference in the KK and Monoprice. >>>Well, you sure convinced me. |
TL:DR, but for high quality, high value cables go to SignalCable.www.signalcable.com |
I have never been a big believer in cables. To make a long story as short as possible, a friend loaned me a pair of Kimber Kable KCAG XLR cables (MSRP $1K/Meter). I replaced my cables (approx. msrp $250/m) and I noticed a huge difference. It was an “Oh !@#$” moment. I then tried another set of cables and had acquired along the way and the Kimber’s were better. For grins, I then put in a pair of Monoprice interconnects ($16 for the pair) and I heard NO difference! The $16 Monoprice sounded exactly like the $1K Kimber. I had a friend come over, did a blind test with three of the cables. He pick the KK and Monoprice over the other cables, but could not hear a difference in the KK and Monoprice. Maybe some with extremely discerning hears could hear a difference and maybe the system would make a difference. But, I proved to myself that cables do make a difference and the most expensive may not be better. I suggest, before anyone poo poos my findings, order a pair of Monoprice (what’s $16?) and test them. What you DON’T get with $16 cables is bragging rights – or, maybe you do. I used the interconnects between an Audio Research Ref 5 SE preamp and Pass Labs XA30.8 amp driving a pair of Sonus Faber Amatis. |
Why are you going for just 90 %? You can outperform those so called "super cables" with DIY cables at a fraction of their cost! I did extensive tests and comparisons with different DIY designs. My reference was Kimber's top of the line KS-1036 and KS-1236 (balanced). I sold them all! Let me know if you are interested and I will email you instructions plus listening notes. |
As an idiot, all I can say is that I have owned many, many, many cables from both ends of the spectrum. What I have found, is that MIT cables have consistently allowed my system(s) to sound their best. They deliver everything they claim, but most of all, my music just sounds so unbelievably organic, dynamic and tonaly correct. MIT cables also allow you to feel as though you are in the space of the musicians like no other I have heard. I’ve wasted a lot of time and money attempting to improve and or deny how good they are...they are simply wonderful cables! |
herman Cables are the most overhyped, overpriced components in the world. Come on people !!! it is wire !!!! The people paying tens of thousand or even thousands of dollars or even hundreds of dollars are idiots. I apologize to all of the idiots. I wish I was more ambitious as I would put together some BS wire and put it in a fancy jacket and make outrageous claims about the science behind what I sell and make a fortune as I laugh all the way to the bank. >>>>Whoa! Herman, What’s got into you? First of all, in case you have been paying attention, cables are not necessarily wire, they can be graphene or even liquid or carbon. Thanks from all of us for decided not to market your cables and for protecting the good name of science. |
May I humbly but confidently suggest you check out Revelation Audio Labs for the cable types you seek - ALL the performance of the world’s most expensive cables for MUCH less of your hard-earned dollar. Revelation Audio Labs just won The Absolute Sound 2018 Golden Ear Award, and 2018 Stereophile Recommended Component. |
Cables are the most overhyped, overpriced components in the world. Come on people !!! it is wire !!!! The people paying tens of thousand or even thousands of dollars or even hundreds of dollars are idiots. I apologize to all of the idiots. I wish I was more ambitious as I would put together some BS wire and put it in a fancy jacket and make outrageous claims about the science behind what I sell and make a fortune as I laugh all the way to the bank. I'm not saying that the electrical properties of cables (inductance, capacitance, resistance, dielectric absorption, ect ) don't make subtle changes, but you can make more difference by changing any electronic component . You can indisputably make more difference by changing the most colored component in your system... speakers. And even subtle changes like toe in of speakers and a few inexpensive room treatments will make a more profound difference than cables. If you have spent as much as you possibly can on sources, amps, speakers, room treatments, and other electronics then maybe, and maybe is a big maybe, play around with cables. If you have more than a few % of your system in cables until you get to the extremely high end (like a million $) you are throwing money away, and maybe even then. while PT Barnum may have never said it, when comes to the cable industry there is a sucker born every minute. The industry plants doubt in you mind and you fall for it.. so sad wire your system up with CAT5 cable and when you get it to the point you can't go possibly any further with gear, play with cables |
Keep an eye peeled for used Auditorium 23 cables they pop up from time to time. Interconnects typically $500ish speaker cables maybe $7-800. Great sounding cables. I can also highly recommend Audio Note Lexus copper cables. Hard to get used but new interconnects are $400 I think speaker cables in the $1000-1500 range. Just my two cents as with all things YMMV. |
I have Mapleshade speaker wires between my Primaluna Dialogue HP and my Tannoy XT8F speakers. They seem to be doing a good job, but I have little to compare them to. Does anybody else have an opinion about these wires? http://www.mapleshadestore.com/speakerwires.php |
Regarding Clear Day cables which Stringreen suggested above, there has recently been sad news regarding the health of its proprietor, and he may no longer be able to produce cables. See this recent thread: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/trouble-contacting-clear-day-cables Regards, -- Al |
