I’m sure there are some companies that aren’t on my list since it was never intended to be all encompassing, plus the list is a few years old plus there are probably Cable companies out there who would prefer to keep mum about using cryogenics.
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That’s weird. Are you superstitious about cryo? Do you believe it’s unnatural?
The performance of ALL materials is improved with cryo. Golf balls, razor blades, rifle barrels, trumpets, cables, wall receptacles, audio cones, tonearms, CDs and CD players. What have you. That’s all I can say for now.
Cable companies using cryogenics
Purist Audio since 1995
Furutech
Stealth
VH Audio
Jena Labs
Ultimate Cables
Shunyata
Revelation Audio Labs
JW Audio
Townsend Audio
Voodoo Cables
Museatex
Blue Marble Audio Cables
Silversmith Audio
Neotech
Reference 3A
Meitner (EMM) Cables
Darwin Cables
Silent Source
CryoClear
CryoParts
Connex Audio
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Say, didn’t Grover Huffman diasavow his silver coated copper wires recently? Or was it Morrow? Also, cryogenics is employed by a great many high end cable manufacturers, who most likely do not use cryo to be part of the in crowd since there seems to be such an adverse reaction to Cryo. Geez, many people are convinced cryo makes metals and plastics brittle and even makes the sound worse. It’s almost like superstition. I’m not sure what Hyper Pure is supposed to mean - is that a marketing term? We have had 6 and 7 nines copper like forever. IIRC even 8 nines copper is not really new.
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My math was a little bit off. When I say that system performance can double three times that’s actually *eight times* the performance of when you started out. Sweet! Forget about the measly 3% stuff, people.
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The real percentage remaining for most audiophiles, from what I can tell, is probably about 200%. If not more. Heck, there were some weeks SQ would double when I got up a full head of steam. Or maybe easier to say it that the system performance has the potential to double or triple or perhaps quadruple. It’s just people frequently don’t know where they are on the performance curve, where they should go, or how to get there.
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“It’s filled with stars.” |
Faint heart ne’er won fair maiden.
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The whack a mole light just came on. Please fasten seat belts. |
90% of what? Why has it become SO common to hear people say sound quality is a hyperbolic curve that approaches the x axis when it’s really a hyperbolic curve that approaches the y axis. I.e., there is no ceiling. It’s open ended. There is no absolute sound. One day you’re flying high, thinking you’re on the top of Everest. The next day you realize you haven’t even arrived at Base Camp yet.
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You can always spot the English majors. They’re the ones telling people to study electrical engineering. |
Gloopus interruptus!
Augustus Gloop, Augustus Gloop
The great big greedy nincompoop
Augustus Gloop, so big and vile
So greedy, foul, and infantile.…
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Some cable labeling has to do with the shielding but not wire directionality. Analysis Plus for example IIRC. Some companies control both, but some cables companies are not on board the wire directionality choo choo 🚂 so they don’t control the manufacturing process to address directionality of the wire. |
fleschler
As to whether or not Masterbuilt understands the significance and/or applies wire directionality, I have no idea. I thought that wire directionality becomes apparent after burn-in where the directionality is set after use. I maybe incorrect. My cables are labeled as to direction but that maybe for future reference when they are unplugged.
>>>>That would be incorrect, I’m afraid.
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fleschler
I wouldn’t buy Masterbuilt cables unless my net worth doubled and I heard them one on one against my current cables. I do like the vonSchweikert speakers though with Masterbuilt internal wiring which increased their cost by several $1000.
>>>>>I thought I read somewhere that the Von Schweikert ULTRA Mod options of Masterbuilt internal cables cost between $15,000 and $35,000, depending on speaker. Do I have that right? 😛 And one can’t wondering if Von Schweikert is on board the wire directionality train. 🚂 Toot, toot!
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Sorry, I’m not impressed. I’m sure I’ve heard much better systems than you have. And the cables were nothing special. Do you think these hands have been soaking in Ivory Liquid? It actually sounds like you might have accidentally fallen in with some kind of cult. 😛 Also, the very best mouse trap is a block of wood and a hammer. Works every time! 100%.
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Uh, Teo, you’re not supposed to pump your own products here, you silly goose. I left liquid cables out on purpose to see if you’d react. 😬 I left off carbon cables, too. I could have mentioned lead conductors, fiber optic cables, and I’m reasonably sure I left some other variables out, too, MIT cables, gold tainted silver cables, etc.
pop quiz, what happens when you cryo liquid cables? |
How does a cable get outdated? Fair enough question. Let’s see if we can figure this one out, shall we? Let’s count the paradigm shifts to see just how far behind the power curve some people are, shall we?
1. Oxygen free copper
2. High purity copper
3. Long crystal copper
4. Cable geometry optimization
5. High purity silver wire
6. Teflon and air dielectrics
6. New welding techniques and materials for connectors
7. Cryogenic treatment of cables
8. Controlled directionality of cables
9. Addition of graphene to cable conductor
10. Contact enhancers, e.g. silver/gold and graphene
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I have a feeling you would know.
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fleschler
The cables for my favorite of all time system cost $400,000 and are made by Masterbuilt, a company distributed by the speaker manufacturer. They are expensive (and there were a lot of them in that system). Are they worth it? If they were necessary to achieve best ever sound system, then yes.
>>>>If the best mouse trap ever built cost $50,000 would that be worth it? |
I’ve been involved with some pretty expensive systems at THE Show in Vegas. For example, one system with $100K Rockport Hyperion speakers, biamped with $60K worth of Tenor amps and just guessing $20K worth of Jena Labs Pathfinder cables and Shunyata cables. Best of show, best anyone ever heard at any show. Blush. Gee, maybe there’s something to this expensive stuff... 😬 Also, with John Curl and Bob Crump twice back when they showed their really expensive Blowtorch preamp, Bar B Q amp and a bunch of Bob’s Throbbing Gristle TG cables.
Conclusion: It all depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. If you’re trying to get best of show it’s probably best not to scrimp on the cables. |
A thread on cables going down a rabbit hole? Gosh, really? How can that be? Am I hallucinating? |
azbrd
anyone who would spend $2k on a set of bikes wheels is crazy, same goes for the audio bling cable (speaker, interconnect, & power) pricing referenced on this forum.
>>>>You misunderstood. I was talking about $2K each. Carry on.
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Obviously the high end cables we’re talking about here are not intended for audio video applications or even for run of the mill audiophile systems or other relatively mundane enterprises. They are intended for highly tuned and refined high end systems capable of appreciating them. It’s like putting $2,000 wheels on a Schwinn from Target. Give me a break! Try putting them on a $6K bike or a $12K bike. |
I’m sensing a lot of pent-up pseudo skepticism here.
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ben77059
Geoffkait, why don’t you try a pair before posting as suggested?
>>>>>Why don’t I? Well, frankly, to be totally up front, I don’t actually use cables in my system. Consequently I’m not exactly in the market for cables. Best of luck, however.
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herman
Geoff, you got me there, conductive liquid. A wonderful marketing spin but at the end of the day they are just transferring energy from one component to another. You will never convince me that the $20,000 + you would need to cable your system with them couldn’t be better spent on some other part of the system or room.
>>>>>Nor would I ever try to convince anyone who has already made up his mind. What’s the name for that? Oh, right, it’s being closed minded.
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ben77059
For grins, I then put in a pair of Monoprice interconnects ($16 for the pair) and I heard NO difference! The $16 Monoprice sounded exactly like the $1K Kimber. I had a friend come over, did a blind test with three of the cables. He pick the KK and Monoprice over the other cables, but could not hear a difference in the KK and Monoprice.
>>>Well, you sure convinced me.
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herman
Cables are the most overhyped, overpriced components in the world. Come on people !!! it is wire !!!! The people paying tens of thousand or even thousands of dollars or even hundreds of dollars are idiots. I apologize to all of the idiots.
I wish I was more ambitious as I would put together some BS wire and put it in a fancy jacket and make outrageous claims about the science behind what I sell and make a fortune as I laugh all the way to the bank.
>>>>Whoa! Herman, What’s got into you? First of all, in case you have been paying attention, cables are not necessarily wire, they can be graphene or even liquid or carbon. Thanks from all of us for decided not to market your cables and for protecting the good name of science.
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glupson
As far as cheap cables go, Monster Cable, more length than three systems need, $20-30 per spool at the end of the previous century, still work just fine. If you do not obsess over it. They may do just fine when compared to more expensive cables, too, but I have not had a chance. It helps to have low expectations.
The new paradigm - The Anti Audiophile. Ah, the eternal quest for mediocrity. 😛
Hmmmm, could there be a recessive audiophile gene? 🤔 |
When classical music is played electrons in cables not only drift, they also drift off to dreamland.
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To simplify things even more, perhaps, this quote from Dr. Elizabeth Shaw in the movie Prometheus pretty much says it all, doncha think?
”Because it’s what I choose to believe.”
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Bingo! It’s obviously not (rpt not) something Einstein would ever say, as I said before. Richard Feynman, on the other hand, is quoted as saying something pretty close,
”If I could explain it to the average person they wouldn’t have given me the Nobel prize.” |
You must not have seen my earlier post. What Einstein said was,
“It’s a miracle that the Universe is comprehendable.” Which obviously contradicts your Einstein quote.
He must have been high when he said what you say he said. Or else he was misquoted, Who the hell knows.
In any case the universe is well understood, even the Higgs boson and gravity waves were found recently - OK, there are a few mysteries remaining - by almost any who actually looks into the subject. The Big Bang, the age of the Universe, the age of Earth, dark matter, gravity, gravity waves, black holes whatever. It’s all in public domain now; you can lead a hoss to water but you can’t make him drink. Revel in your time.
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Einstein did not say that. Not when he was sober anyway. Why would someone who figured out relativity theory say such a thing? He wouldn’t.
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What Einstein actually said was, “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” Einstein also said, “It’s a miracle that the Universe is comprehendable.”
But it was PT Barnum who said, “People would be generally much better off if they believed in too much rather than too little.” And it was WC Fields who said, “Never smarten up a chump.”
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The dude that drives the getaway car is just as guilty as the shooter. Frankly I have no idea what you were even talking about. All I did was ask nicely what you were referring to. Give me a break.
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grannyring
Ok @geoffkait we just could not possibly disagree more and let’s leave it at that. No way is this forum the place to try and sort this argument out. I should not have tried to offer a differing view on this off topic tangent. My bad.
Back to affordable cables.
You’re the one that started it. I just finished it, that’s all. This is just a case of Culture vs Agriculture. |
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grannyring, just to close the loop, there are no gaps in the science of the age of the Earth, the Earth’s formation or the Big Bang. We know exactly how big the Universe is and it’s rare of expansion. We also know there’s a big monster black hole snack dab in the center of our galaxy.
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I know you are but what am I?
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grannyring, I have no idea what you’re referring to. Can you give me some hints? |
Whoa! What? What major gaps in science are you referring to? I don’t like gaps. Gaps and Geoff clash. Whatcha got, grannyring? Anything?
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pbnaudio
@geoffkait
Well finally you admit you don't have a system powered up - oh wait - let me guess your system works on teleportation power and signal transfer ?
>>>>I’ve already said too much.
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elizabeth
Geoff, Do you have a favorite cable brand? Mine is Kimber, with a helping of Cardas. (I tend to dislike AQ due to some failures of insulation on some Midnight years back, and then a AQ record mat that became a goo record killer if any LP was left on it for more than an hour..) the rest I know nothing.. nothing.. So you see I have a slight hold back on anything AQ.. Hurricane included.
>>>>>Comments accepted without comment. Would you believe I don’t have a favorite cable brand. Actually, to be perfectly up front, I don’t use cables or power cords.
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What’s with all the left-over 80s dudes? There isn’t really any controversy any longer but I have to admit it’s a real good opportunity to play Sniper, Stalker and Whack-a-mole, you know, games like that. |
Three more ways to improve the cables you have.
1. Send them to the cryo lab pronto. Even if they were cryod at the factory, which most high cables are.
2. Establish which direction is the best direction.
3. Burn them in on a burn in device or a burn in track on a test CD. Even if they’ve been in your system for years this will further improve them.
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