Looking For 90% of the performane of the super expensive cables for much less money
I currently have a system which consists of Vandersteen 5A's, THor Audio TP-150 tubed monoblocks, Thor Line Stage and Thor phono stage, Marantz SACD player SA-114 and will take delivery of the VPI Prime Scout with a Sumiko EVOS 3 Cartridge. I am currently using LAT International Speaker Cables, Power Cords and Interconnects. (They are no longer in business). I am in immediate need of turntable cables and would like to update my new speaker cables and interconnects. Not willing to spend thousands on this upgrade. Seeking to capture as much of the "magic" that the super expensive cables deliver but at a more realistic price point. I understand that I have really good quality equipment, but at this stage of my life cannot allocate mega dollars towards cables. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I'm new to these forums and only came here as a hobbyist looking to share what I may know something about and learn from others in areas where I have little personal experience.........lots of those.
I really think that you just get off poking people with a stick from the safety of your keyboard.......like the guy that flips people off in traffic and drives away............it's what you do and I doubt that it's appreciated by many.
Perhaps I'm wrong and maybe you're a great guy with an odd sense of humor..............I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but I really do see your presence here as a form of personal entertainment, sometimes at other peoples expense.
Feel free to reply.......or not, in any manner you wish. I don't actually give a Fk.
"Someone got a cable that separates Dolly, Emmy and Linda clearly when they sing together?"
Do you really want that?
Also, what is the deal with having each instrument of an orchestra separate? Aren’t they playing together exactly for that reason? To play together and all the sounds merging?
As far as cheap cables go, Monster Cable, more length than three systems need, $20-30 per spool at the end of the previous century, still work just fine. If you do not obsess over it. They may do just fine when compared to more expensive cables, too, but I have not had a chance. It helps to have low expectations.
KJL1065.....I have Vanderteen 5A's and have been experimenting with many, many cables. ClearDay Cables are to these ears are as good as the very best, most expensive Wireworld cables. I'm using double shotgun and couldn't be more pleased. He will send you a pair with no obligation on a trial basis...you don't like them send them back. It certainly is worth a listen.
Most agreed in another thread that tonearm cable is the most important cable in the entire system. With such equipment level you might want something really good. What do you call " mega dollars " ? For some it is $15k pair and for others it is $1500 pair. So I would start with tonearm cable and leave the rest as it is right now, then rewire everything. One brand approach is not always the best but it is the simplest and often a good one. I use Purist Audio Neptune and Tchernov Audio Reference interconnects. You can read my review here. They are not inexpensive but not outrageously expensive either. This doesn't mean it would be the best choice for you, but I think you should try a few brands. Kubala Sosna is another company that comes to mind. All three that I mentioned are used or used to be used by Lamm and many Lamm owners. This tells me something.
glupson As far as cheap cables go, Monster Cable, more length than three systems need, $20-30 per spool at the end of the previous century, still work just fine. If you do not obsess over it. They may do just fine when compared to more expensive cables, too, but I have not had a chance. It helps to have low expectations.
The new paradigm - The Anti Audiophile. Ah, the eternal quest for mediocrity. 😛
Hmmmm, could there be a recessive audiophile gene? 🤔
Call Joe Abrams at Equus Audio/Portal Audio. He is an audio veteran and has worked for some of the biggest names in audio. Free advice and consultation.
Regarding Clear Day cables which Stringreen suggested above, there has recently been sad news regarding the health of its proprietor, and he may no longer be able to produce cables. See this recent thread:
Magic of super expensive cables. LOL. How about Canare? They'll give you about 110% of that magic as they will faithfully reproduce what's going into them instead of acting as an EQ like most expensive cables.
I have Mapleshade speaker wires between my Primaluna Dialogue HP and my Tannoy XT8F speakers. They seem to be doing a good job, but I have little to compare them to. Does anybody else have an opinion about these wires?
Here is a small company in Bali, Indonesia..check it out.. Vermouth audio..they make excellent cables and received many positive feedback so far..and most importantly..their price is reasonable..you don't have to sell your kidneys to own it.
Keep an eye peeled for used Auditorium 23 cables they pop up from time to time. Interconnects typically $500ish speaker cables maybe $7-800. Great sounding cables. I can also highly recommend Audio Note Lexus copper cables. Hard to get used but new interconnects are $400 I think speaker cables in the $1000-1500 range. Just my two cents as with all things YMMV.
Cables are the most overhyped, overpriced components in the world. Come on people !!! it is wire !!!! The people paying tens of thousand or even thousands of dollars or even hundreds of dollars are idiots. I apologize to all of the idiots.
I wish I was more ambitious as I would put together some BS wire and put it in a fancy jacket and make outrageous claims about the science behind what I sell and make a fortune as I laugh all the way to the bank.
I'm not saying that the electrical properties of cables (inductance, capacitance, resistance, dielectric absorption, ect ) don't make subtle changes, but you can make more difference by changing any electronic component . You can indisputably make more difference by changing the most colored component in your system... speakers. And even subtle changes like toe in of speakers and a few inexpensive room treatments will make a more profound difference than cables.
If you have spent as much as you possibly can on sources, amps, speakers, room treatments, and other electronics then maybe, and maybe is a big maybe, play around with cables. If you have more than a few % of your system in cables until you get to the extremely high end (like a million $) you are throwing money away, and maybe even then.
while PT Barnum may have never said it, when comes to the cable industry there is a sucker born every minute. The industry plants doubt in you mind and you fall for it.. so sad
wire your system up with CAT5 cable and when you get it to the point you can't go possibly any further with gear, play with cables
May I humbly but confidently suggest you check out Revelation Audio Labs for the cable types you seek - ALL the performance of the world’s most expensive cables for MUCH less of your hard-earned dollar. Revelation Audio Labs just won The Absolute Sound 2018 Golden Ear Award, and 2018 Stereophile Recommended Component.
Purecable cayenne. Best high-end from the Netherlands. I use them between the Esoteric f-05 ( Japan) and ilumnia magister (Belgium). Purecable cayenne: 2,5 m,/pair: 719€
herman Cables are the most overhyped, overpriced components in the world. Come on people !!! it is wire !!!! The people paying tens of thousand or even thousands of dollars or even hundreds of dollars are idiots. I apologize to all of the idiots.
I wish I was more ambitious as I would put together some BS wire and put it in a fancy jacket and make outrageous claims about the science behind what I sell and make a fortune as I laugh all the way to the bank.
>>>>Whoa! Herman, What’s got into you? First of all, in case you have been paying attention, cables are not necessarily wire, they can be graphene or even liquid or carbon. Thanks from all of us for decided not to market your cables and for protecting the good name of science.
As an idiot, all I can say is that I have owned many, many, many cables from both ends of the spectrum. What I have found, is that MIT cables have consistently allowed my system(s) to sound their best. They deliver everything they claim, but most of all, my music just sounds so unbelievably organic, dynamic and tonaly correct. MIT cables also allow you to feel as though you are in the space of the musicians like no other I have heard. I’ve wasted a lot of time and money attempting to improve and or deny how good they are...they are simply wonderful cables!
Why are you going for just 90 %? You can outperform those so called "super cables" with DIY cables at a fraction of their cost! I did extensive tests and comparisons with different DIY designs. My reference was Kimber's top of the line KS-1036 and KS-1236 (balanced). I sold them all! Let me know if you are interested and I will email you instructions plus listening notes.
I have never been a big believer in cables. To make a long story as short as possible, a friend loaned me a pair of Kimber Kable KCAG XLR cables (MSRP $1K/Meter). I replaced my cables (approx. msrp $250/m) and I noticed a huge difference. It was an “Oh !@#$” moment. I then tried another set of cables and had acquired along the way and the Kimber’s were better. For grins, I then put in a pair of Monoprice interconnects ($16 for the pair) and I heard NO difference! The $16 Monoprice sounded exactly like the $1K Kimber. I had a friend come over, did a blind test with three of the cables. He pick the KK and Monoprice over the other cables, but could not hear a difference in the KK and Monoprice.
Maybe some with extremely discerning hears could hear a difference and maybe the system would make a difference. But, I proved to myself that cables do make a difference and the most expensive may not be better. I suggest, before anyone poo poos my findings, order a pair of Monoprice (what’s $16?) and test them. What you DON’T get with $16 cables is bragging rights – or, maybe you do.
I used the interconnects between an Audio Research Ref 5 SE preamp and Pass Labs XA30.8 amp driving a pair of Sonus Faber Amatis.
ben77059 For grins, I then put in a pair of Monoprice interconnects ($16 for the pair) and I heard NO difference! The $16 Monoprice sounded exactly like the $1K Kimber. I had a friend come over, did a blind test with three of the cables. He pick the KK and Monoprice over the other cables, but could not hear a difference in the KK and Monoprice.
As others said, call TheCableCo and speak with Ethan. Good guy. Tell him what you want to spend and he can suggest a few options. You can borrow them for a week to 10 days and try them in your system. Then send them back. If you liked any of them, you can make a purchase or keep trying others. In-system trials are really the only way to make an informed decision. Or at least one that you will be happy with.
Cables are the most overhyped, overpriced components in the world. Come on people !!! it is wire !!!! The people paying tens of thousand or even thousands of dollars or even hundreds of dollars are idiots. I apologize to all of the idiots.
Bravo, Herman!
I’ve said
this before somewhere on Audiogon but it applies to this thread…about WHY
people buy expensive cable/wire when there is no reason for these “exotic”
products to perform better than good quality cables of the proper length and
resistance.
Likely the
main reason is that this stuff looks really great if/when you can see it. Those proud of these accessories’ visual
appeal, have their equipment well spread…giving the viewer opportunity to see
how well equipped and connected the audiophile owner’s system is. When systems are referred to as “music
reproduction devices” (or other pompous definitions), they are really proud of
their stuff. I have no issue with buying anything for the looks as long as you
have the honesty to say so. If I bought
a Rolex, for example, I would never say I bought because it is such an accurate
timepiece. If I put the optional rear
wing on my Mazerati, I’d never try to get you to believe I drive fast enough to need
or achieve the downforce it creates. It, to me,
just looks neat.
Another
reason is that if it looks good "and costs a lot, well….it’s gotta be good." A
manufacturer can produce a cable of "exotic" design and beautiful
appearance for, say, $5 a foot. He
can then choose to sell it for $10 per foot or $750 a foot. If it looks good enough, he might decide to
market it as exceptionally high-end and sell it for the higher amount knowing
that those with a higher disposable income, but no particular knowledge of
basic acoustic science, will assume if it is priced at $750 it MUST be better
and will, accordingly, sound better.
Once the cables are changed out their eyes will widen and their jaws
will drop at the amazing increase in sound stage, transparency, texture and
openness the new cables provide.
And….this actually IS science...the field we know as psychology.
Don't believe it? In another thread, people are buying $900 wall receptacles, burning them in for 500 hours (a critical step, I guess) and then raving about the eye-popping differences they hear. I kid you not.....plugs for $400.
Geoff, you got me there, conductive liquid. A wonderful marketing spin but at the end of the day they are just transferring energy from one component to another. You will never convince me that the $20,000 + you would need to cable your system with them couldn’t be better spent on some other part of the system or room. Cables like that are for people who want to brag to their friends they spent over $20,000 on cables.
Dyna, interesting point about a Rolex. I have one, Would never have bought one but it was my grandfathers and it is beautiful so I wear it. They really aren’t very accurate timepieces. They are jewelry and if you realize that then fine, people wear jewelry for a variety of reasons, just don’t ask me what exactly the time is when I wear it because it may be close but it won’t be exact. If you want accurate time buy one of Geoff’s clever little digital clocks. Not only will it keep accurate time, it will transform your room into a symphony hall.
I am not saying that conductive liquid does not work, maybe even better than our usual hard metal cables. I have no experience and superficially see the reason for it being reasonable (I have not given it deeper thought). Maybe they are that leap that should shut up all the cable non-believers. I truly hope so.
However, in the field of Audiophilia, anything that has properties that may approach those of oil will be fiercely debated. It must be an annoying uphill battle for the manufacturers.
I have also mentioned elsewhere on Audiogon that many may buy cables because of the looks, but my idea has not been noticed. Oh well, maybe some day...
I admit that I bought a pair of XLR interconnects just so they look "better" when placed where I do not even see them. Going from mid $10s to a few hundred. I accepted it was for the looks and it was worth to me on that level. The difference in the price was, to me, acceptable for that kind of game. As far as sound goes, if anything I would say it is "worse", but would not firmly claim that. The bad part was convenience. Pictures did not tell me that cables are not as flexible as the old ones.
herman Geoff, you got me there, conductive liquid. A wonderful marketing spin but at the end of the day they are just transferring energy from one component to another. You will never convince me that the $20,000 + you would need to cable your system with them couldn’t be better spent on some other part of the system or room.
>>>>>Nor would I ever try to convince anyone who has already made up his mind. What’s the name for that? Oh, right, it’s being closed minded.
I get the self help, group therapy thing going on here but unless your deaf, getting even lower level MIT cables can offer truly amazing results. As I said, The Cable Co. let’s you try before you buy !
ben77059 Geoffkait, why don’t you try a pair before posting as suggested?
>>>>>Why don’t I? Well, frankly, to be totally up front, I don’t actually use cables in my system. Consequently I’m not exactly in the market for cables. Best of luck, however.
I am currently using a twisted pair Duelund 12 ga. for my speaker cable with Kle banana plugs. Was using them without connectors, but for switching components I decided to add the connectors with no sound degradation. Previously, I had been using Acoustic Zen Satori cables and had A/B'd them with the Clear Day cables. There wasn't enough of a change to go with the Clear Day cables and I like the Duelund best of all.
I am also using the Audio Arts signature power cables with my components. I bought these on a special some time ago and they were a good value. I did a comparison with a $1,000 Shunyata PC. There was a minor difference in the "flavor" but for at least double the price it was easy to stay with the Audio Arts cable.
I have some good things about the Oyaide interconnects buy I have not tried them. I am currently using some older Harmonic Technology Magic cables with no desire to change.
I myself use MG Audio Design top end interconnects. I first learned about them from a review that the late Arnie Nudell wrote in which he mentioned that he himself used them. Later I learned that Paul McGowan of PS Audio himself uses them. At first when I learned that their top end interconnects went for $1600 for a one meter pair, they were still too expensive. But when I learned that you could purchase a half meter pair for $900, was finlly obtain them. I am unable to compare them to the really expensive stuff out there, but they are far superior to my pair of Audience au24se's. The Audience pair is their previous top end model. Anyway I doubt that there is anything out there that can compare for the price. Suposidly some members of the Colorado Audio Society also like them. Just ask Paul McGowan for his opinion.
So you are reading many posts saying, "I like this cable, and I will tell you why."
How is this information helping you? Will you audition all 15+ suggestions? Flip a coin? Or will you "fall into" something and put it in your system?
Why not optimize (previous posts, sgordon1 and geoffkait) the cables that you have already paid for, and then you can evaluate whether you have achieved your goals, or at least have come closer to them?
@elizabeth ...I`d be interested in knowing what cables you use now.
I have a pair of .5 Meter KCAG that I now use between my Tortuga Premp and Herron phono stage and it was a step up from the Silver Streaks that I had been using for the last couple years.
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