Hi there. I just wanted to encourage you to include in your search used Martin Logan electrostatics. Almost every model they’ve offered for years is a hybrid with a traditional woofer enclosure below the flat panel. They’ve offered many models at many price points, and finding a used pair under $1500 is not a fool’s errand at all. I personally have preferred the sound of electrostatics over planers through the years, for whatever that is (probably not much) worth. And there are also options that reviewers compare to planar and electrostatics because of their openness—their ability to not sound like the sound is coming out of a couple of shoe boxes. I’m thinking of Vandersteen model 2s or 3s; they are affordable and not too hard to find on used marketplaces. Good luck!
Long hiatus from audio, getting back into it, speaker/room help please
Hey all, thanks for offering this forum, I've been reading a lot, and as the subject says I'm coming back to audio from a long hiatus. Long story short, about 25 years ago I built a very nice home theater in my previous house in CA - it was a Martin Logan 5.1 system, Sunfire amps, Lexicon MC-1, Sunfire subs, etc. It was awesome at the time and I had a very good time with it. Then, after 20 years, I got a divorce - also at the same time as the divorce I lost my mom to cancer, and also at the same time I got my own cancer diagnosis. So I moved to Texas to treat my cancer, finalized the divorce (a 3 year process), and then if that wasn't enough, was involved in a very bad burn accident. I've now come out the other side, no cancer, burns recovered mostly, and I've been wanting to get back to my listening enjoyment.
I have a room (my office) that is going to be (mostly) dedicated to this listening for mostly me only. Its 17 feet by 30 feet in size, is solid wood surround (walnut), and has cathedral ceilings. Its rectangular and has a spiral staircase down to a garage below in the southeast corner of the room. On the south end it has a single window (5 feet wide, 3 feet tall), and on the west side are 3 smaller windows (each 2 feet wide by 6 feet tall). On the north end of the room is a window that is 3 feet wide and 5 feet tall. There is a door into the room on the east wall, sort of in the middle of the room but more towards the north corner.
I read about Magnepan LRS and that got me sparked to start this back up again. My ML's I had before sounded great for the type of music I like - accoustic and vocals, live music, light rock and roll. I love piano, strings, percussion but not so much horns.
I'm thinking a good spot for the LRS' are at the south end of the room. There I can put them about 5 feet off the rear wall, and put my listening position about 15 feet back from them, centered between them. They'll have about 12 feet between them. I thought I'd drive them with a Schiit Vidar. I'm wide open in terms of preamp and source devices and would appreciate any recommendations there. What I really like about the LRS is that apparently they have great performance for not so much cash. Same with Vidar. So I'd like to keep that theme. I kind of like the analogy of the small block chevy to hot rods - a ton of parts available for a motor that virtually everyone uses, and its been used by everyone - i.e. everyone knows it. Similarly I think there's a wave of people using LRS+Vidar because its a relatively low cost entry into high performance. I think some of the Schiit preamps and DACs may find their way onto my list also perhaps.
Anyhow, as far as budget goes, I'm lucky in that I'm not really limited there other than I'm not looking to dump $30k into this, rather I'd probably prefer to keep it under $5k to get the basics going. I *really* like the sound, transparency, stage, etc. of panels and since that's what I'm used to from the ML's I'd prefer to keep panels instead of cones.
I have a block diagram of the room but i'm not seeing a spot to upload it, perhaps I can link it in.
Thanks for any suggestions,
Jeff in Texas (DFW area)
I have a room (my office) that is going to be (mostly) dedicated to this listening for mostly me only. Its 17 feet by 30 feet in size, is solid wood surround (walnut), and has cathedral ceilings. Its rectangular and has a spiral staircase down to a garage below in the southeast corner of the room. On the south end it has a single window (5 feet wide, 3 feet tall), and on the west side are 3 smaller windows (each 2 feet wide by 6 feet tall). On the north end of the room is a window that is 3 feet wide and 5 feet tall. There is a door into the room on the east wall, sort of in the middle of the room but more towards the north corner.
I read about Magnepan LRS and that got me sparked to start this back up again. My ML's I had before sounded great for the type of music I like - accoustic and vocals, live music, light rock and roll. I love piano, strings, percussion but not so much horns.
I'm thinking a good spot for the LRS' are at the south end of the room. There I can put them about 5 feet off the rear wall, and put my listening position about 15 feet back from them, centered between them. They'll have about 12 feet between them. I thought I'd drive them with a Schiit Vidar. I'm wide open in terms of preamp and source devices and would appreciate any recommendations there. What I really like about the LRS is that apparently they have great performance for not so much cash. Same with Vidar. So I'd like to keep that theme. I kind of like the analogy of the small block chevy to hot rods - a ton of parts available for a motor that virtually everyone uses, and its been used by everyone - i.e. everyone knows it. Similarly I think there's a wave of people using LRS+Vidar because its a relatively low cost entry into high performance. I think some of the Schiit preamps and DACs may find their way onto my list also perhaps.
Anyhow, as far as budget goes, I'm lucky in that I'm not really limited there other than I'm not looking to dump $30k into this, rather I'd probably prefer to keep it under $5k to get the basics going. I *really* like the sound, transparency, stage, etc. of panels and since that's what I'm used to from the ML's I'd prefer to keep panels instead of cones.
I have a block diagram of the room but i'm not seeing a spot to upload it, perhaps I can link it in.
Thanks for any suggestions,
Jeff in Texas (DFW area)
25 responses Add your response
@n6gq What is your bass requirements in a speaker? I noticed you like ML and am looking into panel speakers like Magnepan, but panel speakers generally lack bass because the vibrating panel cannot move as much air as a piston type driver. Adding a subwoofer is a precarious solution because of the mismatch speed of the fast panel coupled with the slower piston speed of the subwoofer- this speed mismatch can be a sonic deal breaker for some people. If you don’t require loud and much bass perhaps a nearfield setup would meet your needs better than a full range speaker. |
I'll add my vote to look at GR-Research speakers. Danny often knows of customers that are trading up and have already-built speakers available for sale. There are also a number of folks that will build them for you if you don't want to try to tackle them yourself. I'm currently using the NX-Oticas with OB subs is a fairly large (17'x29') room and they are fabulous. Danny's speakers offer tremendous value, and many of them will give you a presentation similar to Maggies, but are a lot easier to drive. You can take a look at my system page to see the NX-Oticas. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8726 |
I was in a similar situation in that I hadn’t poked around with audio since buying my Vandersteen 2Ci’s and an Adcom GFA-555 in 1991. I had to sell most of my stuff due to COVID. Luckily, I landed on my feet and started rebuilding my system about 5 months after that. A lot changed in 30 years lolol I too thought about getting the LRS at first, but decided the bass response isn’t the best and that they might be pretty small. Another thing I wanted was something with better sensitivity than my Vandersteens, because I especially found dialogue hard to understand during movies with my old 2-channel set up. You also have to give yourself a break, because you’ll constantly be learning about the ins and outs of all the new stuff. So what you want to buy now will not be what you want to buy in 3 months. I decided on speakers that would be good with all kinds of content, and picked up a used pair of MA Silver 500’s. For my streamer and CD/DAC, I picked up the Audiolab 6000N and 8300CDQ. For amps, I always loved the old Aragon stuff, so I now have 3 different Aragon amps (I’m in the hoarding/testing mode) including a 4004MKii, an 8008BB and a set of Palladium 2’s. I got all of that used for around $7000...and that includes the 3 sets of amps, some of which I can sell if I choose. Now that I’m 3 months down the road, I’d probably check out a set of the Triton 2+ (used) or even a Triton 1 (used), a set of Vandersteen 3A signatures (used) or even some higher end older speakers that have dropped in price. It’s a constant learning process and I haven’t even wrapped my head around a Roon server yet lol Just give yourself permission to buy a system to get started, and know that you’ll want to try some more things out as you play around with things. Good luck :) |
A great speaker Thst would check all your boxes is the Spatial Audio x5 open baffle speakers for $7k powered Bass below 90hz -23 hz the great world class Beyma AMT tweeter- midrange and -0 -Xover parts in the critical midrange region most do fail in thst respect ,with wave guide ,and 12 inch midBass a very coherent speaker and 97db efficient. |
Magneplanars are nice. I own a used W4S STI-1000 integrated that puts out over 1000w into 4 ohms and is dead, dead silent with a great preamp section and tape loop. Based on my experiences with Maggies, I think the very clear sound of the STI-1000 would match well with those speakers. Try before you buy, if you can, always. |
@chorus, thank you for your kind words! My listening levels would not be high - I don't like "loud" music, just loud enough that I can "feel" it and experience it. Partly for this reason I've bene considering moving to a headphone-based system rather than trying to fill the larger room I have. Thanks for the suggestion of GR Research, I visited his website this morning and didn't realize he was in my proverbial back yard - I'll see if I can get up there and visit, maybe that's a way to go... Appreciate the feedback, thank you. |
So glad your are through the fires and back to life. Congrats! Not sure if you mentioned what db levels you listen in generally but if it is 55-75db that may change your needs and save some $. You live 2 hours from a listening experience you may enjoy a lot. Open baffle is another exciting way to experience sound and is also dipole so your room dimensions are perfect. I suggest you contact Danny Ritchie of GR Research in Wichita Falls, TX. I was there again last week picking up some enhancements he designed for me. His product comes in a kit or can be bought in various stages of assembly. His servo woofers will fill your room. His listening room is similar in size to yours. Enjoy the hunt! |
Thank you all for your very kind thoughts on my behalf - yes, its been a heck of a road but I'm glad to be vertical and breathing and contemplating hifi gear rather than my own demise. @ohala, yes, I'm in contact with Audio Concepts and plan to get over there soon to test drive a few models. @soix, thanks for the pointers on amps, I'll take a look. Sounds like unless I find a pair of used speakers its going to be 2-3 months before I get them, so I'll have time to begin building the amp/preamp/DAC solution. Thanks again for everyone's input, I've learned a lot already and realize I have a ways to go but I think I have at least a direction with a bit of clarity. Jeff |
Congrats for surviving all that and for getting back into the wonderful, awful world of better audio. A couple ideas to pair with the 1.7s... There’s a Hegel H360 on US AudioMart for $2900 that has a decent DAC in it so would meet almost all your needs in one box — add a Node 2i and some wires and you’re off and running. If I’m you I’d find an extra $1000 for a pair of SVS SB1000 Pro subs as they’ll take your overall sound to another level and also help fill out that largish room of yours. If you prefer separates, there’s a McCormack DNA-225 amp and Bryston BP-6 preamp available here for just a little more than the Hegel mentioned above. I had a BP-6 and DNA-0.5 Rev A in my system for years, and if neutrality with musicality and a large 3D soundstage are important to you this is a killer combo. Just a couple options to ponder, and best of luck finding your new system. |
Maggies are nice speakers (I've owned a number of models over the years), but that's a pretty big room you are trying to fill. I'd consider finding a user pair of 3.5s or 3.6s. I agree with the above posters that the BlueSound Node would be a great option to get started. The built-in DAC is an improvement over previous models and will certainly be satisfactory to get started. It also makes an excellent streamer for the money, so you can upgrade to an external DAC down the road. They also love power. The Vidar might be ok, particularly if you used two (you can start with one to see how it does). You might also consider one of the Parasound amps, or one of the older Brystons. These are well built and the companies have been around long enough that there are plenty of used options available. You could either get an integrated amp, or start out using the Bluesound NODE plugged directly into a power amp, and use the variable output for volume control. I'd start out without subs for the kind of music you like, particularly if you go with the larger 3 series magnepans. You also need to budget at least a little for cables (lots of used stuft at 50% or more off retail, or Blue Jean cables are good options). I'd also recommend saving some for room treatments, although your larger room will have fewer problems than a smaller room would. |
Welcome to the forum and congratulations on being here. 1.7s are going to be awesome for you. They are a great speaker. Bryston is a pretty magical match with Magnepan but that is going to be a bit above your budget. If you can find a used Bryston amp with decent power, it could be very interesting. Especially matched with something like an NAD C658 which has an awesome feature set. They have been horrible to get through COVID, but a Musical Fidelity integrated amp would be brilliant with those. The M6si is $2790 new and will have plenty of power to drive those speakers. I did see the distributor has one silver edition of this in-stock but it is B-Stock which means there will be a visual defect. Otherwise, there may be stock hitting the market this month. B-Stock does not need to be sold at minimum advertised price so you could get that for less. Getting music to that integrated amp is the next challenge. You can simply run a USB from your computer to the DAC on the integrated amp. An alternative would be a streamer or server. Do you have a large local library? Do you need a CD player or place to rip music? Will you just use Tidal or Qobuz? You could get something like a Bluesound Node for $549. Longer term, they are going to update the software to allow you to use the USB as a output. Short term, it has RCA outs. You could spend a bit more and get something like a Roon Nucleus which has a USB output. This starts at $1400 and does require a Roon subscription and either a local library or a Tidal/Qobuz subscription Finally, those 1.7s are great but don't have the best bass response. Good for most music, you may find that a subwoofer would enhance the listening experience. Maggies are not the easiest to integrate subs with. Sunfire still has some nice subs in the HRS line that aren't crazy expensive and are refined. I think they start at $850 for the 8". At a more modest price, Q Acoustics has a $599 sub that is nice called the Concept B12. I worry about the amount of power it has to offer in that large of a room but it might work. SVS makes several sealed subs that would do the job and would be fine choices for you. Regarding budget: $2000 for the Speakers $2790 for MF M6si (less for B-Stock - between you and dealer) $599 for Subwoofer $549 for Bluesound Node $5938 Total. A little bit more for ICs, a pair of RCAs and a subwoofer cable. ~$1000 more for a Roon Nucleus. Not spot on budget but not that far off with an amplifier that can really handle the very hard to drive Maggie speaker. I am a dealer for Musical Fidelity, NAD, Bluesound, Q, and Roon. I have no affiliation with Magnepan, Sunfire, SVS or Bryston. |
IMO unless you want to rent your music @$20 mo. (Qobuz, etc.) you will need close to your budget just for streaming. I have a $2k Streamer/Dac that I have listened too for less than a full day in 3-4 mos. The problem is NOT the streamer. It is the software and the network. There are too many handshakes which must be made between hard drive, computer, streamer and phone to stream your library from the HD. Roon MAY be the answer. But Qobuz seems to take care of the software issues that choreograph the handshakes. Plus, It lessens the handshakes necessary. This is why many are using the streaming services IMO. This has been my experience as I have attempted to get into streaming. As such, since you are starting over and getting your footings, I'd suggest a CDP, which often sounds better anyway. BTW, Glad you made it through the obstacle course. I've been through similar and it isn't a joy ride whatsoever. But it does teach you lessons you will never forget. Having had cancer and looking at possible death for several weeks as a young man, I learned that a lot lot about what is really important in life. I wish you all the best and welcome aboard. |
Ok, this is not for a theater, just 2-channel accoustic music listening. Sounds like the Magnepan 1.7's are the trick. What is the hot source now? I don't feel like building a vinyl collection, CD's are ok I guess, I have a lot from the years past, but maybe Tonal and a streaming DAC? For 1.7's, what are people using for amps? Is the Vidar still a good amp for that? Hegel H90? Or do we need more current? |
Welcome to the forum. You've had quite a tough go of it, so you deserve to treat yourself to some audio goodies. Since you've already owned ML speakers, I guess you don't need to hear the speech about the pros and cons of panel speakers. You seem to like the transparency they can give you and your musical taste seems to be in their wheelhouse. But I will suggest that you have quite a large space to fill and you might be happier with 1.7s or larger. And adding subs might be in order too. That would be optional for what you mainly listen to though. Good luck with your new system. Oz |
I am a professional theater designer and Maggie's are terrible for theater They don't play loud are dynamically limited they are hard to drive and día podes for fronts confuse image placement Martin Logan are hybrid which are better suited for theater You want dynamic speakers Easier to place and tune more dynamic and designed for your application Dave and troy AUDIO INTELLECT NJ |
Congrats on surviving all of that. First thought is the LRS might be too small in a fairly large room unless you listen closer to the speakers. Steve Guttenberg has a few videos on the LRS which may help. Thank you for your thoughts and kind words. Since I posted I'm starting to think maybe the 1.7's might be a better fit for the room. So maybe, while the LRS is a novel idea, I really do need a bit more size. 1-2 listeners max in a dedicated listening area. |