I am considering a pre-amp that has no remote. As I sit here listening to music, I have adjusted the volume multiple times in just the last few minutes. I adjust so I can pretend I'm listening to my wife when she tries to talk to me. I adjust for different songs. I adjust in the middle of a song. I tweak to get just the right level from my listening spot.
So for those of you that don't have a remote or don't use one - how do you do it? Is there an adjustment period? Is listening more enjoyable because you can't easily play with the volume?
As the OP of this thread (name change is a long story) I did indeed go to a shindo set-up many years ago and don't really miss having one. At the moment, hobbled by a foot operation, it would be nice but it is not that bad.
The only time I can live without a remote is when Im playing DJ at a party using my PA equipment and standing in reach. Or when the electronics are within reach from my lazy-boy seat. I set my analog tuner up on my coffee table right next to me since I'm a channel surfer.
Years ago I thought I might design a remote called the "Knobulater." A small box with a pulley which allows a rubber belt to run from it to the volume knob…controlled by a remote to drive the belt and switch direction. Zero degradation except to my dignity if the thing failed. Clearly, I was (and am) too lazy to follow through with this, but hey…there ya go.
About two years ago I was looking for a preamp to replace my McCormack RLD 1 preamp , which was no slouch to begin with. It was a full featured remote pre, although I never really like it's digital volume I did appreciate it having a remote. I came across the Conrad Johnson Classic 2SE, a stripped down pre, no remote, just a source selector and conventional volume control. I had some reservation about going from a fully remote pre to such a stripped down design. After listing to it in what was probably a $50k system it was clear that this pre was a keeper and that sound not features were more important. On top of that several of my sources had remote variable line out so when I was too lazy to get my ass off the couch I could still at least control the volume. I could have maybe stretched my budget and bought an ET3 but I wanted an SE with upgraded Teflon caps and Vishay resistors, which was $1500 more than the base SE. For me the Classic was just what I was looking for, I don't regret it one bit.
In 1980, my Navy roommate (uncle Chuck) and I were approached by a salesman putting the hard sell on us to buy a remote controlled tv.
Chuck acted very annoyed, stared the guy down and said in a stern voice 'sir, the day I am too dang lazy to tell my wife and kids to adjust the tv- I'll buy one!'
Joe, I think presuming that a preamp w/o a remote is superior to a preamp w/ a remote is a real stretch. As I said earlier, I've owned a few 'high end' preamps w/o remotes from manufacturers like Coda, Krell, Threshold, Conrad Johnson, etc. I have also owned preamps with remotes from manufacturers like Threshold, VAC, ARC, BAT, Krell, etc. As far as what I've heard, the preamps overall design is much more important sonically than whether the preamp has a remote or not.
Grant's preference for the Lamm over the ARC would probably stay the same if the Lamm had a remote and the ARC did not. I've heard enough preamps to know that I believe the remote is a non-issue sonically compared to the design of the preamp. FWIW, I've found that I prefer tubes over SS preamps. That is a major difference to me. Arguing over whether a remote improves or degrades the audio experience is like arguing over whether a phase switch is necessary or not.
The enjoyment of sound is in the design of the preamp, not the bells and whistles. That's my $0.02.
I generally don't use a remote. Never bothered me one bit, but from what I have seen, for most audiophiles, it is a requirement. It seems we're now willing to compromise sonic performance (presuming a unit being considered without the remote is superior to one being considered with it) for the convenience.
But, who am I to judge? I listen to CDs at almost all times, knowing full well their inherent inferiority to vinyl.
I have a remote for my Cary SLP98P preamp and like not having to get up. However, there is less chance of noise without one. I'm not that critical, and as long as all of my equipment works well,I only care what I think. The best thing to me about a remote is that you keep your hands OFF of your equipment. Yes I use white gloves when moving any components or repalcing tubes etc. That way , everything stays very new and if I sell it,the new owner will be very pleased also. I do the same with cars too. Used is great if it is almost or as good as new. You save lots of money and can afford better things this way. Why are so many people so careless with things after they buy them? I've only bought 2 items on Agon both rated about an 8 and when I received them one was (is) a 9.5 the other 9.0 This is how I love to buy and sell. As opposed to EBAY
Contrary to most of these posts, I had no problem in getting rid of the remote. Of course, I did like it, even loved it, but I found I was using it too often to make slight adjustments in volume in a single song rather than listening to the music. I would turn up soft passages, turn down loud passages, etc. etc., and found myself listening more to the volume sometimes than the song.
My friend had no problem without a remote on his older ARC preamp. So, when an opportunity developed to buy a component without a remote, I did it. And, it's worked out fine. Now, I set the volume and tend to leave it that way. If it needs adjustment every so often, I get up and do it. No big deal. It's more relaxing.
In addition to the good sound, there is something about moving through the detents of a high-quality manual stepped attenuator, like the gates in a Ferrari shifter.
Yes, I too would choose sound quality over convenience when cornered. Once did forgo the convenience of my remote controllable REF3 for one without based solely on sound. However, given the choice (in this world full of it), will relentlessly search till I get both.
Well,it's good exercise. Also, it'll give you a good excuse for not listening to your wife when she's not within your line of sight, namely not hearing her in the first place.
I wouldn't let a remote be the deciding factor in choosing a pre-amp, but they are awfully convenient. I listen to a lot of internet radio and there are wild volume differences between every station. If i only listed to vinyl or CD's the remote wouldn't be so important, but still nice to have.
Life without a remote.. ..is akin to leaving home without cellphone nowadays. While you can certainly 'adjust' to live without it, why deprive from the comfort and convenience of having one?
Well the last couple of days I have been experimenting to find exactly what life would be without a remote. It was more difficult at first as I would automatically turn for the remote much more often than I realized. After I got used to not having a volume control at my side I became much more attentive when setting the sound level when I dropped the needle. Of particular note I found that during quiet passages I wanted to really turn up the volume only to turn it down when the music got loud again. As has been pointed out, I was effectively defeating part of what was being conveyed.
I believe the toughest part would be dealing with outside factors (family members wanting to say something, phone ringing, etc.).
Some system needs up/down sound. If you get it right, one sound is all you need for most stuff. It sounds 'right'. Need more, turn it up. Most of the time I doubt I move it more than 15-20%.
Best with tubes and analogue source. It's all there. Turning it up with some system doesn't make it better or 'more'. My humble opinion. Soft sound with soul can be really cool.
About 14 years ago, I was in a local store listening to some ML gear with Watt3/2 Puppies. The co-owner gave me the remote and left. I inadvertantly hit something that had the volume ramping up quickly. The owner dove for the amp power switch and my heart was laying beside me on the floor. Don't need no remote...except for the TV.
For 20 years I never had a remote but since getting several approx 2 years ago I hardly ever use because I forget I have one. When I do use it I like it. I still get exercise doing 12oz curls though (Hmmm wonder if thats why I forget I have them now?!?!?).
While I would love to have a remote (being disabled has it problems) I dont have one for 2 channel but once you get to know your system its not that big of deal, being in a dedicated space where you can hide out makes it easier too. My Sonic Frontiers went bad and I am in need of new unit so in time when money gets better....funny right?....I will hopefully find one that fits my needs plus offers a remote but that wont be a deal breaker. I use and insist on remotes for everything else but for music it seema to fit that you sit and just listen to entire disc without messing with it.
No, there is no life without a remote. Best you get an outboard unit made by Chase Technologies. Less then $100 and will be worth the test to see if it degrades the sound without it. The chase unit can adjust balance also, something not found in many components today. Once you find it does not degrade the sound, you will wonder how a $100 unit can sound so good in front of mega bucks of amps. I also have some vintage BSR equalizers that do the same trick. They don't sound as good as the Chase unit. Still have the old, old AR unit, which has an 8 bit processor. Sounds terrible.
Good for the cat! People underestimate these discreet animals. There is much they know and can share if given a chance, even though the lack of thumbs makes them poor hitchhikers.
30 posts on this passionate subject... I don't feel the lack of a remote volume control on either of my systems. I am just learning to use the "Play" button on the CD transport. These two steps in the learning curve may have some influence on my listening habits. For example, I tend to play the whole CD.
I've lived without a remote for years. Recently trained my cat to work the preamp and the cd....she's having a bit of a problem with the turntable although MUCH better than my wife.Playing records I mean.
I somehow managed to live for 40 years w/o a remote for my 2-channel, however, after using one for the last 8 years I now feel it's a neccessary evil if you will. I also find that I use it quite a bit as I do not have a dedicated listening room. Since family members come in and out, as do phone calls, a volume control and/or mute is very convienient. I'm sure I could just turn the volume down and listen all the time at background music levels, but what's the fun of that?
I also find a remote balance control and phase shift helpful in getting the most out of the music. Since many recordings are recorded out of absolute polarity, I find it easier to hear the difference when switching instantaneously from the listening position.
I did consider buying a preamp w/o remote a few months ago too, but a friend of mine just went through it, and I realized that I would probably be just like him, and tire of no remote and re-sell the preamp in a month or two. I'm starting to lose the desire to buy equipment that I just re-sell again. I'm looking for something that will last for a few years, and for me, that includes a remote.
The fact that you are even asking this question would suggest to me that you are not a candidate as someone who could live long term w/o a remote.
For years (until we got our remote system running) I kept the preamp 3 feet from my listening chair. I still do- the interconnects are 30 feet long, but the preamp can drive 100 feet no problem. So I put the preamp where I wanted, unfettered by any dictates of the cables, sonic or otherwise.
RhIjazz raises a good point about some stepped attenuators (whether remotely controlled or not). I agree that ones with too few steps are not useful because the ideal volume almost always lies between steps. Those with 2 db steps are particularly annoying (one of my objections to transformer passives which necessarily are limited in the number of available steps).
But stepped attenuators, like those in BAT, Boulder, Levinson, VTL, etc. linestages, have enough finely graded steps to avoid these concerns. Some of these have steps that seem unnecessarily small (my Levinson No. 32 has .1 db steps), but, the small steps are more important for setting channel balance than volume. I have found that a .2 db change in channel balance is clearly audible, though a 1 db step in volume when playing music, is hard to hear. That is probably the reason for having such small increments in the better units with stepped volume controls.
Thanks for all your responses. As in many cases here on audiogon there are many pro and con opinions and it is difficult to discern to which side to lean. I guess if you believe that the sonic improvement outweighs the get off the couch cost it is worth it. A tough call indeed.
Bent Audio has a stepped attenuator remote so you can add remote volume capabilities. I have two preamps with his attenuator remotes. Problem solved. Check it out http://www.bentaudio.com/index2.html
Unless you can place the preamp where it can be adjusted from your listening position, you will ultimately become dissatisfied since you are already accustomed to a remote.
My secondary system and my back-up preamp do not have remote control and I can live without it for the short term. I listen to my main system around 2-3 hours per day and enjoy the ability to make volume adjustments. When I use the back-up preamp, I find it distracting to get up to make minor volume adjustments. When I purchased the preamp, the lack of remote wasn't a deal breaker since I liked the sound and build quality for the dollars.
Given the choice between a stepped remote volume control and a continuous non remote volume control, I would choose to forego the remote. I hate stepped volume controls. I always find one step too loud and the next too soft.
I too found the great desire to have a remote, too much to avoid in my last round of upgrades a few years ago. (For twenty years I had lived without one with my Counterpoint and ARC preamps.) This is why I went for the Ayre K-1xe, as its remote control is supposedly the best around as it can not affect the sound due to its design, (which is really complicated, and somewhat of a Rube Goldberg design, to be honest).
Hey Schipo, does that remote control unit of yours also get your beer when necessary? Lucky man if so! :-)
At one point I had remotes for the amp, pre, CDP, curtains, fan & lights, so I could control almost every aspect of the listening sessions. I gained over 300 lbs.
Now there are no remotes & simply turn on the system loud enough so I can hear while I do the dishes.
I tend to listen to various program material in succession (PC audio), and would not want to go without a remote in that each does need to be adjusted according to content and my preference. Without a remote, why, I'd have to get up each time the song changed. That would me expending precious energy I could be using on my couch potato tan. Why I've become so attached to it that I carry it around everywhere with me now like a security blanket. Occasionally I'll try to adjust the volume of my wife with it, but I guess I haven't got the right code for her. I don't recommend trying that by the way...if you do, be subtle about it..don't point the damn thing at her as that's a dead giveaway. Start out with the remote in your pocket and see if that works. Once I went out and forgot my remote and didn't realize it till I was far from home. Have you seen that Michael Douglas film, "Falling Down"? Well the scenario was not unlike that. Friends don't let friends go remoteless. Oh, and be sure to have a good stock of AA's in your fridge.
My Remote consists of a Yard Stick [ 4' ] . From my listening position I am able to adjust the Volume and Balance Knobs on my VTL Ultimate Pre . I find having a Remote promotes constant fiddling and less enjoyment .
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
