It’s a sure sign you’ve lost the debate as soon as the T word makes its appearance. Oh, well, better luck next time, dudes.
Let's talk power cords
Does a upgrade really make a difference over a stock cord?
259 responses Add your response
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If you think Geoff is a troll, please alert the moderators.I have on many occasions. And for things like this: “Directionality would cause the cable to heat up and fail or cause a fire?!!” OMG!! 🔥Now I’ve heard everything. The tiny strands of wires in all power cords are directional since all wires are directional. But there I virtually no difference in how electricity is conducted either direction. Are you pretending to be slow?The above quote contains several contradictions plus a personal attack; it is based on the falsehood of 'all wires are directional'. Its easy to parse out: if a wire were indeed directional, it would have a higher resistance or impedance with current going in one direction than if current were going the other direction. This increased impedance would over time heat up the resistance of the wire in the same way that all resistors do when current flows through them. In an AC power cord, current flows each way 60 times per second. So a wire that somehow favors one direction over the other (were that even possible) would be unsuitable for this application (it would heat up...not a good power cord behavior); that is why there are none. If a wire conducts better in one way then the other, this implies a diode and diodes cause rectification (conversion from AC to DC, which is a non-linear function) which would make the power unsuitable for the power transformers used inside the audio equipment. Further, diodes in series with any AC signal (for example an audio signal) are a source of distortion; in fact they are used in effect pedals used by guitarists to make distortion (and are known as 'fuzz boxes' or 'fuzz pedals'). |
atmasphere @cleeds , The statement he was contesting was that directionality makes a difference on a power cord. It was in this case the voice of reason; if you think about it, if a cord is working with AC power, directionality would cause the cable to heat up and fail or cause a fire. Clearly this isn’t happening and on a large scale- the idea of directionality is nonsense, and is a topic that should not be discussed beyond debunking it. Its unfortunate that Geoff continues with this as essentially his comments are trolling. Now if you engage in the idea of a directional power cord, then you are wasting your time, unless the entertainment value of doing so is valuable to you. Certainly it won’t make any difference in how your stereo sounds! >>>>>>>Of the many peculiar things I’ve seen you say this one takes the cake. 🎂 Happy birthday! Where do you come up with this stuff? “Directionality would cause the cable to heat up and fail or cause a fire?!!” OMG!! 🔥Now I’ve heard everything. The tiny strands of wires in all power cords are directional since all wires are directional. But there I virtually no difference in how electricity is conducted either direction. Are you pretending to be slow? Since power cords ARE inherently directional. We can assume your statement must be FALSE since there’s a 50% chance a given power cord is actually in the correct direction from the standpoint of directionlity. However, most manufacturers have been a little bit slow to catch up to Audioquest in this regard. And they’ve been slow to catch up to Audioquest in controlling directionality of HDMI cables. Do you seriously believe Audioquest advertises they control directionality for their new power cords to ensnare gullible and naive young well-heeled audiophiles in their clever directionality spider web? Give me a break! For amp manufacturers, obviously the wire directionality is even more of an issue, given all the wire in the amp, including transformers, etc. are...you guessed it...directional and should therefore be controlled for directionality from the get go. cheers, Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica |
atmasphere Its unfortunate that Geoff continues with this as essentially his comments are trolling.If you think Geoff is a troll, please alert the moderators. |
This is a forum for discussing things related to audio and music, so I think Geoff's comments belong here - whether you approve of them or not.@cleeds , The statement he was contesting was that directionality makes a difference on a power cord. It was in this case the voice of reason; if you think about it, if a cord is working with AC power, directionality would cause the cable to heat up and fail or cause a fire. Clearly this isn't happening and on a large scale- the idea of directionality is nonsense, and is a topic that should not be discussed beyond debunking it. Its unfortunate that Geoff continues with this as essentially his comments are trolling. Now if you engage in the idea of a directional power cord, then you are wasting your time, unless the entertainment value of doing so is valuable to you. Certainly it won't make any difference in how your stereo sounds! |
So I disconnected all of my power cords and replaced them with the stock cords. I didn’t tell my wife what I did, but asked her to listen to a couple of her favorite songs. Her reaction, what happened to the bass, his voice sounds dead, it doesn’t sound good, what did you do? Hearing improvements makes one a believer. Honestly, it’s so simple...if you don’t believe power cords make a difference through listening, don’t buy them and be happy!. If you hear a difference than buy them and be happy! |
willemj Geoff when will you ever stop peddling this nonsense and waste our time?This is a forum for discussing things related to audio and music, so I think Geoff's comments belong here - whether you approve of them or not. When you say Geoff is wasting "our time," please tell us on whose behalf you are speaking, other than yourself. |
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No. This is a scam. Think of what is between the wall socket and the generator plant. I use tube amplifiers and did not hear any difference in power cords.A lot depends on the equipment used, but it is possible to not only hear differences in power cords, but they can be measured as well. A variac is required. Run the amp up to full power and measure the power output. Measure the voltage drop across the length of the cord. Reset the variac to compensate for the voltage loss on the cord. Measure the output power again. What is the difference? I have seen power cords rob an amplifier of 30% of its output power. Is there anyone saying that such is not audible? There are two aspects of power cord performance- the overall voltage drop and the ability to pass high current at high frequencies. The latter is a requirement as power transformers, rectifiers and filter capacitors are used in amps. Power rectifiers only turn on for brief periods of time when the cap voltage is less than the transformer voltage- IOW at the peak of the incoming AC waveform. If the cord can pass current during this brief spike, performance is impaired. Willemj asks us to think about what's in the wall and beyond- well, ROMEX is pretty high performance, good for in the wall but illegal for use outside of it. That's why we have flexible power cords, but they don't perform as well and that's why there is a power cord market. |
Aftermarket cables can make a difference and have in most of my projects. I suggest you find a price range you are comfortable with (I suggest used) and purchase one. Install and listen for a week or so and see if there are differences in the sound. If so are they good or bad? If you decide the original sounds better to, fine sell the aftermarket cable and enjoy your system. |
@fisher_400, although I don't disagree totally with your comments, I will agree that amps seem to be the least affected by power cords as long as the power cord one is using is of the correct gauge. The differences with power cords and my amps weither thay are solid state, tube, or class D is very challenging for me to her. |
I use tube amplifiers and did not hear any difference in power cords. The power cord is far away electrically from the DC power supply. In fact the power cord is not directly connected due to the power transformer is magnetically coupled. An electrically noisy mains may cause some issues. But, with sufficient filtering in the power supply design even electrical noise on the power distribution can be filtered out. Perhaps expecting an improvement may cause the listener to hear an improvement. The human brain is amazing. So, perhaps you can hear an improvement due to expecting it with a positive mood in your brain. |
Damn, you guys don’t mess around! Very good idea, expensive, out of my league, but for audio, it is an excellent++ idea. Wish I had the deep pocket for it. Jealous! i would try to use a power cord, but I can n to justify 200 dollars for a 3 foot piece of rubber, flexible cloth, and a small copper wire in it. I just stick with what the mfgr supplies. Still jealous. ;) |
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From your circuit box to your wall outlet, you have cheap 16-18ga or thinner, depending on your builder , electrician, " It is my understanding minimum gauge size is 14 for Romex. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "how does connecting a 8 ga of wire from already 200ft or whatever the run is, make it sound more powerful, or put the biggest stretch I have ever heard, the air around instruments?......really :)" Try it, you will be surprised. --------------------------------------------- "if you have a nice 220 dedicated, with 10-12ga runs to your outlets, it may make a difference, but I doubt it." ------------------------------------------------ Oh, it does, I did that when I had a dedicated listening room. I used 10ga. Romex, a bear to work with, but one of the best upgrades I ever did. |
From your circuit box to your wall outlet, you have cheap 16-18ga or thinner, depending on your builder , electrician, how does connecting a 8 ga of wire from already 200ft or whatever the run is, make it sound more powerful, or put the biggest stretch I have ever heard, the air around instruments?......really :) snake oil, if you have a nice 220 dedicated, with 10-12ga runs to your outlets, it may make a difference, but I doubt it. Enjoy. The music. |
@grannyring, yes the Furutech SO22N (14 gauge) wire, when built properly along with the $39 per set carbon fiber barreled, rhodium plated connectors from China, does sound quite good on front-end components. I preferred the sound of the 14 gauge Furutech vs the larger gauges on the front-end. I realize that mileage may vary in different systems. |
Charles, I only lasted three tracks into Tijuana Moods it seemed more like Ah Um a choreographed concept album not my cup of tea. And to the original thread: I was totally wrong about the Furutech being rolled off it's fully extended at both frequency extremes. What seemed perhaps rolled off to me was a bit more emphasis on the sustain and harmonic overtones and less leading edge. Generally due to a greater degree of transparency. I noticed this especially on piano notes, piano is what I listen to most when assessing changes to my system. Still breaking in but I hear no downside and hoping things get even better. |
Hi Jon, I’m happy that you like it. An interesting mix of, blues and a a touch of the Avant-garde yet they definitely swing! Top notch musicians every single one of them. Wonderland is an earlier live recording from the late 1950s and is more "Hard Bop" and ballads, beautiful musicianship. I hope that you like this one as well. Jon, track 4 is beautiful. Charles |
+2 jmcgrogan2. Sadthetic, perfect description 😊. Jond, Good early impression for a brand new and "cold" power cable. Like your choice of test recording. Jon we are both jazz afficianos, here is one for you that I’m listening to as I type. "Minus Oh Yeah" Charles Mingus is a different flavor from Bill Evans but I think you may enjoy it. Minus is as you know a bassist but plays piano on this recording. Track 5 is a beautiful blues. "Minus In Wonderland" is a bit more typical Mingus and he is back on bass. Okay back to the thread topic😊. Charles |
So the Furutech arrived a little while ago put it on my DAC. Three tracks into Bill Evans Trio "Live at Shelly's Manne-Hole" I feel like I'm hearing more overall transparency. Getting more of a sense of Bill's fingers hitting the piano keys and Chuck Isreal's fingering his bass. Bass itself seems a tad deeper and more resolved. Highs seem the slightest bit softened, perhaps more natural or perhaps a tiny bit rolled off? I think more auditioning as well as further break-in will tell the difference. I did get the gold plated plugs which are supposed to be a bit warmer. Plus I'm being incredibly unfair and premature even posting, the cable was literally still cold from the outside temps when I dropped it in the system. So far I like what I'm hearing and the cable itself looks great very well finished understated and serious. More to come. And thanks to Chris Venhaus and VH audio for a great overall experience I very highly recommend them. |
@lak This is a first Furutech for me! I really only dabbled a bit with power cords, Signal cable a less expensive model from Stealth the HAC. Neither made a difference I could hear. Picked up a Cerious Nano-Signature cord a few years back was blown away. I'm hoping that my system has evolved to the point that differences between the Furutech and Cerious cables are readily apparent. I will be reporting back! |
@jond I look forward to reading what you have to say about your new Furutech FP-S032N with gold FI-11 connectors on your power cord. I've read so many posts on the various Furutech wire that I don't remember if you have tried any of the other Furutech wire? Should sound quite nice on your preamp or Dac! Oh! and +1 jmcgrogan2 (LOL)! |
duckworp welcome and a very thoughtful first post thank you. I agree with what you say and I wish we could all get along a bit better. And one comment on comparing mains cables, as I plan to do it tonight, what a pain in the a**! Ever looked behind most racks? It really mitigates my desire to go back and forth between two different cables comparing. |
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I haven’t posted here before, though I often come and read to inform me. It is an interesting forum. I can’t help but post though to express utter bewilderment at why some people want to expend so much time and energy telling other hifi enthusiasts that they are wrong and that mains cables has no effect. What are they trying to achieve and what is their motivation for doing so? I just don’t get it. I’m trying to understand. Is it that they feel that they are genuine moral protectors of consumer rights? That their mission is to therefore point out that all these people buying power cables and hearing a difference are being very misled, that they are hearing things which don’t exist? And by implication therefore questioning the integrity of these people? Aside from this moral crusade reason I really fail to understand what motivates someone to tell someone else they are so wrong and misled. Why spend your time doing this? I have recently completely changed my system and have been testing everything. A change of power cord, particularly to a Shunyata, actually changed the sound significantly, and I mean significantly, so much so it was the equivalent of a change in CDP or amp. I can switch power cables and my wife (not an audio person) instantly notices a difference even when she is concentrating on something else, without any care or interest in what I am doing and without being asked for an opinion. I know when I hear a difference and I actually expect NOT to hear a difference as that is often my experience. For example I recently tried a mains Grounding Cable, one which has been discussed on this forum in a couple of threads recently, which many say noticeably improves the sound. I head zero difference. Nothing. But I’m not going to go around saying it doesn’t work. I’ll tell you of my experience with it and that I found no change to the sound at all, but that is all I can report. And with my mindset, one that needs to hear the proof and frequently doesn’t hear the proof, I can 100% tell you that Mains Cables make a difference. A big difference. One day I should write up my notes from my comparisons on cables, amps & speakers as it may be of interest to others. |
