Lay Off the Newbies!

@hilde45:

Excellent idea-- at least you care enough to have made the effort!  

I may be mistaken, but it seems to me, when I first sarting asking for advice here, a good many years ago, there wasn't nearly as much snarkiness in evidence. 

+1 hilde45    

I totally understand where the OP is coming from. The overly aggressive or demeaning responses are unfortunately very typical of all forums these days. Anonymity definitely comes at a cost.

stuartk"Just because difficulties cannot be avoided does not mean one must always learn "the hard way". It is possible, in many situations, to gain knowledge without taking the most difficult path. The road may be rocky and washed out in places, but if one can help steer a newbie in such a way that they avoid falling falling off th eedge and into a deep gorge, I'd advocate doing that."

Wow you should start you're own religion and use that as part of your Bible you are obviously a person of deep faith, caring, and belief good for you don't let anyone stop you from preaching the Goodness of Truth and Caring!!

Chayro agreed

Just to keep the record straight, I never spilled any Boone's Farm products.

A while back, I suggested that Audiogon have a FAQ category so that newbies could be directed there to thoughtful and well composed replies rather than get some of the short or snarky answers to their newbie questions, the kinds of answers being lamented here. If I recall correctly, that idea got some credit but enough short/snarky answers that it made me regret starting it. Nevertheless, I also sent it to the forum managers. Who knows? Maybe that will happen someday.

@cissado:

Yes!  Great post!  

@david_ten:

That learning necessarily involves difficulty is a given. . . in every aspect of life! 

Just because difficulties cannot be avoided does not mean one must always learn "the hard way".  It is possible, in many situations, to gain knowledge without taking the most difficult path. The road may be rocky and washed out in places, but if one can help steer a newbie in such a way that they avoid falling off th eedge and into a deep gorge, I'd advocate doing that. Saying "well, they're gonna have to take some hard knocks, anway-- leave 'em be" is devoid of compassion, to say the least. 

 cissado did an excellent job of describing what I advocate-- I don't believe I can improve upon his post. 

It’s a journey. Effort and miles have to be clocked. The negatives [also] serve educational purposes and present growth opportunities.

I used to be a regular on a Bodybuilding forum. When newbies come to ask the most basic questions and ask if their kitchen table or bar stool, crate, is good enough to do bench press with their 30 pound dumbells, I would always steer them in a positive direction. Of course I could have given them a list of must haves that they just couldn't live without, but newbies need encouragement at this stage. You use their budget and work with it. Note what excited them enough to get into weight training and let them flourish with that. It would be sad to dampen their enthusiasm from the start. It is sometimes better to do things not perfectly and be happy  than being discouraged and know perfection is out of reach. If they fall in love with the sport/hobby, then they can move forward more. 
Not everyone's a teacher though.

The first thing a newbie should do is to compile an ignore list and skip over their posts. 

Life is way to precious to waste it on interacting with the folks that belong on the ignore list. 

Here is my take. . . 

When a newbie naively asks "What is the best ___ (insert component)?", it seems to me that the most helpful response would be one that encourages the newbie to trust his/her own ears, because ultimately what matters is what sounds good to them-- not to the rest of us!

However this rarely seems to hapen. Most often, they are inundated with suggestions from posters who are passionate fans of X or Y brand, which may or may not sound good to the OP, which the OP may or may not be able to afford or even demo for themselves. 

Even worse, an OP asks about X and very quickly, the focus is changed to Y.  

Even worse, in my view, are those who constantly respond with denegrating remarks-- "wire is wire"-- "bits are bits" -- "digital is crap"--
which is all about their egotistic drive to prove they are somehow superior. The impact of these polemics upon newbies is hardly likely to be positive.

It would be most useful to newbies if we all checked our egos before responding.  
 

chayro

There was one analog thread on static ... By the end of the thread, he sold his analog rig because he couldn't deal with the stress ...

He sold his analog rig because he couldn't deal with the stress of an internet forum? I don't think that's a problem that A'gon users can remedy.

@ oldhvymec
"I have one of the Decware ZEN switch box that I am using in reverse."
You should read!

No it's not, read what he said, he has NO SWITCH, he want’s to ADD one.

LOL I'll bet you don't stop at stop signs or use a turn signal either.  :-)

This is a great example right here. READ what I said. HE has the box and he has to draw the schemo. WE (that me) can’t get it.. I don’t or can’t copy from what I don’t have. A picture inside the box would have even helped.

"good solder skills" now good drawing skills and post the schemo, I’LL DRAW THE LINES and add the switch. I liked the knife edge for an A/B switch.. Did YOU read the post? REALLY?

Semi regards at this point.. 6 out of 10.. we’ll see..

Cut those dudes some slack.

@ oldhvymec
Are you kiddin' ? This is your answer to a recent post!
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/decware-zsb-please-help

Many responders ignore the OP's budget, I mean totally ignore it.

Sometimes, I encourage someone to stretch the budget some, sell something, wait a bit longer, risk vintage, IF I think a 'jump up' would be missed by the original total. 

I really wasn’t talking about people who are just nasty or pot-stirrers. I was talking about experienced well-meaning audiophiles who just overload newbies with too much info. For example, one guy with a Rega table was asking about a cartridge and they’re telling him not to use the Exact, but get something else, but you have to shim the back of the arm and buy an alignment gauge and how Rega’s alignment was bullshit. They may be right, but not for a newbie. Slap in your 3-point Rega cartridge and enjoy. Believe me, it won’t explode. And this also refers to newbies who are genuinely seeking guidance. Not the type @oldhvymec mentioned. They are beyond help.

OP I started posting 4-5 years ago under oldhvymec. I was on AG 20 plus years ago and forgot my call sign.

Honest to god newbies deserve consideration.

I love the new fellows that post the questions and the answer in a 4 page header and ALL CAPS. Then tells you he was drunk or drank a bottle of something..
Potheads included, they tend to be a little more paranoid though.

I like it when every other word is spelled wrong, NO caps, a single blur from beginning to end and full of "u" and "4u" and all the lazy crap that goes with being a lazy a$$, THEN a big fat period..

I LOVE it when they log on under audio2design, and 30 other names just to be an A$$ an tell everyone how they are wrong.

I really get in happy land when a newbie tells a guy with a good solid answer, has done and given the same sound advise over and over again and the newbie says "but my zillion dollar this and my zillion dollar that, and my zillion dollar friend, told me not to buy the 4.00 usd one (that works) it has to cost at least a 1/2 zillion dollars, if you don’t mind would you mind your OWN business, I’M to busy trying to impress people with the KA-zillion dollars I wasted..

YEA honest to god newbies deserve consideration. BUT HAND TO GOD some DON’T..

Regards

There are several snipers that look for post from certain people on certain material or subjects and they get quite nasty.

I've been here for twenty years and it's always been similar to what you describe. As @hilde45 has noted, you need to know the players and which ones know what they are talking about. It's that way on every BB I go too. 

To be clear, I'm not saying that any of the suggestions offered by the more experienced members are wrong per se.   But they are wrong for a newbie. Imagine telling a 10 year old child everything that could happen to them at the beach.  Kidnapping, sharks, jellyfish, riptides and so on. It's all true, but that's not how you do it in the beginning.  Help them build a solid knowledge base and let them enjoy. 

I was a newbie about 18 months ago, and I would have appreciated your post back then. One reason I stuck it out on the forum was that there was a good mixture of sound advice which took a sympathetic approach. By sorting out who the jokers were and who the helpful were, I managed to learn who to listen to. Then, I would just wait for their advice. 

Who were the "helpful"? Those who responded to my OP that:

(a) heard what I was asking and addressed it, specifically;
(b) made suggestions in line with my budget;
(c) justified any suggestions which were pushing me further (in budget or in gear) and explained a bigger picture as to why it might make sense down the road, and
(d) asked me follow up questions.

To the best respondents on a thread, I reached out by private message to thank them, and told them a bit about who I am. In some cases, now, we email instead of use the forum.

Caveat emptor is a good approach to fora, but once you get good advice, thank people personally for it. They deserve the thanks and it solidifies the online connection.

P.S. The hardest part about a forum is that some people are both helpful and jokers, depending on mood. The online world simply unshackles some folks from taking serious questions seriously. All of a sudden, they're at the back of a middle school school bus, cracking wise!

Real friends don't let their friends drink Boone's Farm.