KEF Blade Two - Unbelieveable

bit of a bump,  Instead of reselling these Blade's, probably the last off the production line before kef moved to the Meta tech I put a couple MC611's on them and there's no doubt in my mind that upgrade made a bigger difference than moving to the blade metas. There's just something fundamentally 'right' about how they sound and these amps brought out more bass detail and while the size of the soundstage was always boundaryless it's gotten more depth and detail with good recordings. There's a review on the meta's suggesting tracks with nasal vocals will be less pleasant , something I experienced with the old R105/3 and has no trace of in the original Blade. That and the fact that new speaker demos don't leave me wanting anymore only confirm these truly prove to remain endgame for me. If I find something that bumps these off the podium ya'll will be the first to know. 

Latest Blades are probably the most expensive speaker I could see myself ever splurging on.  Still getting by with my big Ohms for the foreseeable future though. Have ls50 meta and sub in another room just for kicks. 

we are a kef dealer 

you can't upgrade a non meta to ameta  kef will not allow that

if you want a meta you have to buy a meta kef ref 3 sound similar but are not as magical however the ref 3 setup correctly areawesome under 20k

Dave and Troy

Audio intellect  nj

Kef dealers 

What if you woke up with a half a million more than you went to bed with, personally, I would keep the blades. I might start looking for a better house to put them in, but the speakers are as good as I can appreciate.

@rbstehno …”Before I spend $25k on any set of speakers, my room must be in perfect shape/treated so I can get the best out of my speaker.”

Interesting approach. With the exception of not getting speakers that are wildly inappropriate in size, I approach it the opposite way. I get the speakers… break them in at an “theoretically” appropriate location. Then start working on fine tuning positioning and treatments.

As an example my former ribbon speakers sounded best without front wall treatments. In my previous house the required a 4’ wide x 1’ high treatment at ~6’ high. My newer dynamic speakers require full wall treatments. I couple have predicted none of the stuff without the speakers.

Anyway, that is my approach.

I heard the Hegel H360 and then the H30 (I believe). It was their top-of-the-line mono block with the Blade 1. The H30 did sound better, more powerful and exciting. The H30 is now replaced by the H30a. Something to do with a parts issue.

I decided to go with the CODA #16 for my Blade 2. I owned the CODA #8 and heard the #16. It will be an excellent match, 150, 300, 600 at 8, 4, 2 and the first 100 watts in Class A.

I went and demoed the Rotel Mitchi X3 integrated. I really wanted to hear the massively powerful monoblocks that people are raving about. The dealer only had the integrated. It was rather good and super quiet. A definite competitor to the Hegel H390 (based on my experience with the H360). I was wondering if I should try it with the Blade 2. If I want the massive power I figured I could get the #16 as monos.

Do you have a way to compare the H590 with the Blades? If a used H30 was available it might be worth a try, my only concern with hegel is local service.

@steve59 A Musetec 005 will get you a lot of sound for $3K. A slightly warm sounding DAC. I have one.

I was re-reading this thread again and wanted to update with some placement observations I had.

I moved my Thiel CS3.7’s to my living room and placed them on the LONG wall placement. I have about 7 feet on the left side and about 5 feet on the right side before any wall. The wall on the right side is only 3 feet tall with a big opening to the family room. My Livingroom ceiling is 25+ feet. I put the Thiel CS3.7 1 foot from the front wall.

The sound was excellent. Very wide soundstage, imaging was excellent. I think the large amount of space on either side of the speaker and also the tall height made the close front wall placement not a huge detriment.

I contacted KEF UK and they told me that the BLADE 2 META only needs 9 inches at a minimum from the front wall, maybe even less on some rooms. This is even closer than where I placed the Thiel CS3.7.

So, I am a happy camper now. I sold my CS3.7 yesterday and put that money to grow into the Blades. I was thinking of using the Benchmark AHB2 monos (just need to buy 1 more AHB2). Though a KRELL 300XD or the CODA #16 seem like the smarter choice.

I don’t want to stray too much but what is a smart purchase to replace the dac in the h360 or 590?

Everyone says the Dac in the Hegel is really good but honestly they are comparing them to $2-3k dacs

The hegel is amazing at its price point, but it’s honestly lacking in general.

I also like to separate my streaming as well, isolate the power supply, ext. The hegel has everything in one box which is convenient but it simply isnt as good as separates and that’s just science and engineering.

If you truly want to go the integrated route, something like the gryphon diablo which uses a passive pre-amp is preferable. you get the good without sacrificing while taking away the need for an additional power, cord interconnect, and the noise they add while saving substantial money

no matter what though i would look into a separate dac

Before I spend $25k on any set of speakers, my room must be in perfect shape/treated so I can get the best out of my speaker.

yyz, for your room, I wouldn’t make a $25k investment and put them in this room. The room is the most important piece of your system, bad room, bad sound, no matter what you put in it.

As for Hegel, I e owned a few of their integrateds. They were nice but compromised. Their power is decent, but when you compare their power vs a standalone amp with the same claimed power, the Hegel falls short. I had the top of the line Hegel at the time and when I went with separates with the same power, the new power amp controlled the speaker much better.

The 2nd thing that’s compromised in the Hegel is the dac. I never used the internal dac because it just wasn’t that good. I have a really nice highly rated external dac. But 1 year at rmaf, in the Hegel room, I had them compare the built in dac in the h360 to their standalone dac, no comparison. Hegel isn’t the only vendor that compromises, when I went with separates, my new McIntosh preamp had a so called high quality dac built in and it was also just so so, I didn’t use it either. I bring this up because the h590 is up near $12k now, why compromise at this price? Depending on your setup, if you have an all digital setup, $12k will get you a high quality dac and amp (no preamp necessary), just go from dac to the amp

KEF R3 + subs... damn fine!  

or leave California, lol

@steve59 Thanks, that is what I thought about front wall placement with the Blades. Every time I heard them (maybe 5 times) they always had distance from the front wall.

I guess I need to get rich and move to a bigger house.

Big twin, thanks for the heads up, the speakers are bought used because I’m playing out of my league so getting the components right is important.

yyz, After having the blades awhile I went to a dealer that had the blade 2’s and was surprised at how much smaller they were, only 5’’ shorter but considerably less deep and the style is less imposing than the reference 5, but if it was me I would either buy used at a price I can recoup or stick with the NS5000. My blades are nearly 5’ from any reflecting surface! 

This is a crazy idea that I have but the chances of me moving house are not that great in this CA housing market. However, the chances of me getting a Blade is much more doable.

The last todo audio thing I want to do is replace my speakers in the living room, our fun room with something bigger. The Yamaha NS5000 was the plan but I do like the Blade 2 better. My other 2 systems are now completed.

What do you Blade users think if I replaced the LS50s in these photos with the Blade 2. To the right of the right speaker, I have a partial wall and an opening to the family room. So, lots of volume in this space, even if the dimensions are not wide. I have a staircase on the opposite wall of where the system resides.

I am not looking for audiophile perfection here. Just to understand if placing the Blade 2 so close to the wall would work? I will not put a speaker on the short wall.

Living Room System | Virtual Listening Room (audiogon.com)

I would move around some of the shevling.

@steve59   I had the H360 and loved it.  Had a chance to buy the H590, only 6 months old, at a huge discount, so it's mine now.  Slight improvement with the onboard DAC and 300 watts per channel.  I have read some very interesting reviews on the Sanders Magtech Amp.  Given the Blade 4 OHM characteristics, the Sanders seems to bring a lot to the conversation?   

http://sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/magtech-amp

I don’t doubt these speakers are being held back in my system, The hegel h360 is doing the job good enough, but the dealer I bought it from has a H590 store demo that we were starting to talk about that I will be trying at home shortly after Xmas. That will be interesting. 

@rbstehno 

I am driving my system with Audio Research Reference 160s… I actually keep it in triode mode so 1/2 the power ~ 75 wats per channel. 

in terms of the resolution,

The blades are very resolving and I found them to be excellent, but not the best out there. I am friends with the owner of vivid giya g1s. Now THAT is highly resolving. Although honestly i wouldnt trade with him as the vivids lack in other areas.

The blades have such a tremendous soundstage.. the width, the imaging, the base response...it had almost everything.....But i wanted it ALL.

So, what did I do to give me what I wanted? I bought a pair of silver speaker cables from stealth audio. The cloud 99. Even the ends are terminated in silver. They are quite literally the most airy speaker cables I have ever heard and I’m comparing them to cables costing 4 times as much. The speed, the transparency and clarity.

Yet, it came with drawbacks. Is it a tad bit of brightness that I heard? How did i fix that to give me all the pros and no cons?

I went ahead and upgraded some other cables. One of which was the Galileo SX pc on my power conditioner. In particular, it was the gold tuning bullet that balanced out the silver speaker cables and gave me the sound that I have been looking for.

Now i compare the blades with speakers I’ve heard costing $75k+ and they are in line and in many cases better sounding to me than those

For those who want even more resolution, remember that the speakers are part of a larger overall system that can easily be balanced to give you what you want.

The blades have so so much going for them at that price point that it’s easy to make them sound like some ultra flagships from uber high end companies.

They are really end game speakers

The imaging and soundstage are really something to behold. When i listen to some older recordings I actually dont like how wide it can image....like i can pinpoint certain instruments all the way deep to the right or left and sometimes it seems so far that it goes past the width of my room. It can be distracting actually because the imaging is so good you cant even ignore it you might literally stare at the sides of the room lol. It’s probably accurate though. Older recordings didnt digitally correct everything and if for example a guitarist was recording at the side of a large recoding studio you will hear that and pin point exactly where he was standing during the recording. It’s quite accurate though

On good recordings they are truly amazing

The Blades go down to 3 Ohms if I remember the Stereophile review correctly. Most SS amps are rated at 4-Ohms and 8-Ohms continuous power. Here are some amps I would consider for the Blades that are not outrageously expensive. The KRELL and CODA can go down to 2-Ohms, I asked the designers on that. I have not owned the other 2, except a Parasound A21+ which is also a low-cost powerhouse.

- CODA #8, CODA #16 

- KRELL Duo 300XD 

- Parasound JC5

- Hegel 360, 390, 590

IMO, just because you liked a set of speakers at some show doesn’t mean you can get the same performance: good or bad. There are many things that you have to consider before making a purchase of some speaker you liked:

1) listening room. You might have loved the sound of the Wilson Chronosonic XVX speakers in a treated room of 30’ x 20’ x 15’ but don’t think you can get the same sound in a 15’ x 12’ x 8’ room.

2) audio equipment/system synergy matched to your speakers. You might have heard these Wilson’s with $300k or more worth of equipment and you might not have that level of equipment that might be needed to get the best sound out of a certain speaker.

The best bet is to find a speaker you like and demo it in your house with your equipment to tell if you like the sound quality or not

@ghdprentice   What are you driving them with?

I usually listen at low 70’s db, when I go crazy in the mid 80’s. 100db… whoa.

I’m using a hegel H360 and can comfortably drive them to 100-105 db peaks, but the guys that know the business say my speakers would sound better with better power. 

I see the Blade is a 4 Ohm speaker.  I have read that the 4 Ohm draw can be a problem for some amps, drawing too much current, causing clipping and in some cases damage to the amp.  When using an integrated amp, is the answer to simply have enough power to drive the 4 Ohm speaker at higher volumes.  If so, what is the minimum recommended amp power rating to safely drive the Blade speaker? 

The comparison with the magico isn't surprising to me. I haven't heard them but listener impressions are pretty consistent. Since the blades are the most expensive speakers i've heard outside a show i'll trust the experiences from both of you. I'm very fortunate to have these speakers that came up for sale 15 minutes from my house at only a year old and very close to half price.

It is not a lack of resolution, but at the level of the top end speakers I have heard the Blades did not have the most resolution. However, I consider them the best speakers I have heard by a lot. That is measured by the amount of fun I have listening to the Blades.

Idk, I thought the persona 7f had the highest resolution to date and while the presentation couldn’t be more different, i never thought the blades lacked resolution? Maybe it’s that insane soundstage tricking me?  These are end game speakers.

@yyzsantabarbara 

Thanks so much! Kind of you to say. Yes they throw a massive stage especially in width and the sound is very real life. They are wonderful.  At the end of the day, I would gladly have them as my final loudspeaker. If only Santa Claus was listening 😁

@4afsanakhan Great writeup on your demo. I also agree that the Blade does not have the utmost in resolution as compared to Be drivers. However, that soundstage on the Blade is what kills me. That makes the sound seem so real life. 

I set up a demo at Bestbuy Torrance and listened extensively to the Blade 2 driven by Classé Delta monoblocks and preamp with Audioquest higher-end interconnects. The Blades were in a treated listening room and placed against the long wall approx. 2.5ft out from the wall. The listening bench was situated rather close so my impressions here are formed with near-field listening so please keep that in mind. These loudspeakers may sound very different with greater distance from the speakers to the sweetspot.

The sound overall was uniformly superb. Bass, of course, was very satisfying. We switched an SVS sub in and out. Yes things improved marginally with the sub, but the Blades will get you there without an external sub. Soundstage width was excellent and imaging was very very good - to be expected by the Uni-Q technology coupled with a beautifully smooth, continuous curved, narrow baffle. I found this speaker to excel in bass-rich beat driven music (which I myself listen to a lot). For example, this speaker would serve R&B, Hip-hop, and Electronica very well indeed.

Comparing the sound of the Blade 2 to my son’s Magico S3, which is driven by a Devialet Expert Pro 220 CI, I find that the S3 is overall, a higher resolution transducer. In particular, the S3 is utterly open and clear in the all-important midrange. The Blade 2 mids however are exceptional and in truth not far off in performance. Bass, especially in the areas of weight and presence was captivating - a capability which is vital to me to me given the music I frequently listen to. Bass definition was not as well-resolved as the S3 however, which is extremely articulate and defined in this frequency region.

All in all the Blade 2 is an exceptional loudspeaker, although I believe the tweeter should be refined even more. As an aside; I have owned several KEF speakers in the distant past, including the uber-rare KEF Reference Maidstone 109. That speaker was extraordinary, but I could never quite come to love the coincident source driver technology. No matter what I did trying different amps, cables, sources, what have you; there was to my ears that touch of harshness (distortion?) at certain frequencies that may have been the result of placing one driver inside another, thus exciting resonances. Judging from the superb sound I heard, the Blade’s waveguide implementation has all but eliminated this. Co-incidentally (pardon the pun) I do love the sound of Tannoys as well, also a speaker family with the coincident souce driver array.

The Classé Delta is great. The preamp in particular, is a real beauty.

i would love to have the Blade 2 with the Classé electronics as my hifi, but alas I could not afford that now. If you can afford it you will love it.

There is indeed an interim step between your LS50s & a new Blade. It’s the latest Blade, used.

This one has been advertised for only a week (latest model) but would likely be available for half price with a little negotiating. You might want to wait a couple or a few weeks as it’s unlikely to sell during the Xmas season or in proximity to the New Year. If you live within driving distance, visiting would be good idea. Save on shipping & negotiation is far easier & persuasive in person, with cash in hand. >

Typically speaker companies have a house sound. The sound becomes more substantial (versus thinner) tighter with more detail with increasing cost. So, for me, auditioning speaker brands have led me to the sound I wanted… then upgrading (lots of research of course) within the product line is very safe unheard.

The other issue is the electronics driving them and the acoustics of where you hear them can have very substantial influence on the sound… it takes many years of experience to be able to separate what is sound characteristic is coming from what.

So the more auditioning of anything you can is helpful in developing listening skills.

I am reminded of a guy here a while ago that bought a set of world class speakers from a dealer and then kept going back lusting after a different similar different brand at the dealer, before it came out that the dealer was powering the other speakers with electronics about $200K more expensive than his in a highly tuned room. Not surprising they sounded better.

A hard and fast rule for me. If a speaker sounds good in a show room or in ANY room, I can make it sound good in my room. It has never failed. The room and grid is 50% of the sound. The rest is Speakers, Gear, cabling, and placement.

Several times friends having issues with speakers use to bring them to the shop. 30 minutes later they were happy unless there was a speaker driver issue. It was always THEIR room and a lack of certain treatments in that room. Usually the partner was the biggest problem, it wasn't an issue to be fixed either. Loose the partner or fix the room. Make a choice. I always choose the room, loose the crap head partner, life is way to short.. LOL Dog, Rabbit and the same partner for 49 years. WAY to long.. Been dealing with a whopper for the last 3 weeks.

Merry Christmas and happy gift give away. I like watching kids and the dog open presents.. Nothing better.

Regards

For starters, I would never spend 25k on a speaker without hearing them in my room.  Or even 10k, for that matter.  If you buy used, that's another matter.  Onto the money aspect, I don't encourage excessive spending, but I've found that one way to avoid upgraditis is to buy something at the top end of your financial comfort zone, to the point where the next upgrade is totally unfeasible. As others have mentioned, there are low-interest credit card loans, which would make the purchase more financially sound.  Also, audio prices are rising every time you sneeze.  I was looking at a pair of $3500 speakers and they went up to $4k in just a few months.  My Harbeth SHL5s went from $4k in 2005 to 8K now.  Seems that if you can get a used pair it would be great, but if you do buy new, sometimes just biting the bullet works out best.  But do hear them in your room. 

I saw a pair of black Blade 2 today tagged at $15k in Just Audio in Baltimore County MD. Bought my ls50 metas there last year.  

^^^ any specific Gryphon amp? tia

I've always been fond of the blades.

Ive heard some excellent speakers over the years and I demo'd these to a very nice (and expensive) pair of vivid speakers but the blades I simply found to be better. Once I switched from copper speaker cables to an great pair of silver it was game over. Has synergy with my gryphon amp

I highly recommend you save up it's really worth it

I started with the blade two. I loved them. There was a blemish in the finish, so I upgraded to the blades. I’m driving them with a McIntosh mc452 and c53 preamp. These speakers just floor me every time that I listen to them. They are in a relatively small room, and they perform wonderfully. My house is very heavily insulated including all interior walls. If your budget allows for it and you like the looks, they are well worth it. I’m not sure that I would buy these speakers on the used market unless I could pick them up locally as they are to easily damaged in shipping. I know this as I’ve had multiple pairs due to shipping damage! KEF has been a very stand up company about making it right. For me it was worth purchasing new for the warranty. Also you never know how hard used speakers have been railed imho. Rock on!😎

I have the blade’s in a 17x27x7’ basement listening room and they are special. A H360 drives them with an affordable mqa dac I use to stream tidal. A larger room might require more power but this system sounds amazing. I think meta in the blades would be redundant after reading up on their website. Over the last 7 years I’ve been buying some really great speakers....These are staying!

@curiousjim I have not heard anything other than the LS50 Meta announcement where they said the META will trickle UP to the Rererence and Blade lineup. It only makes sense given the age of the 2 lines. I thought it would have been ready for the holiday season, but a lot of things are not running as expected.

I’m guessing that it doesn’t sound like any other speaker KEF sells.

There is a lot of sonic resemblance to the Reference line and even the LS50. It’s just that on the Blades it is turned up to 11.

I spent a lot of time researching room size for the Blades. I have a 13’ W x 22’ L x 25’H (maybe higher) living room. That is a lot of volume, but I think too small. A dealer whom I bought a lot of gear from told me that the Blades he sells would work there. I do not believe him on that from when I have heard the Blades. I think you need to place the Blades in a front wall around 16+ feet. I cannot do that in my room

Those side firing woofers need some space to get the Blade magic. People have put it in rooms like mine, but I think it would be a bit of a compromise sonically. I am listening to the Thiel CS3.7 in my small office and I am not getting the best out of the speakers. I have made it sound very good, but I know the room is holding my speaker back.

martinman,

 I still haven’t heard either Blade, but still have hopes. I’m guessing that it doesn’t sound like any other speaker KEF sells. The design is totally different and so are the drivers and crossovers. 
 

All the best.

JD

yyzsantabarbra,

Have you heard anything new about the meta update?  I wonder what’s going to be involved in upgrading my Ref 5’s when the time comes?

All the best.

JD

What minimum size room for Blade Two?

They're so good they even sound better than a live performance.

I just watched a Steve Wilson concert on a DVD ran through a less than a $100 Sony bluray player and an average big screen Sony TV hooked up to my stereo system. It sounded great in my house of stereo. Point being, whether it's the cheap bluray, the better digital system or the very good analog one, they all sound excellent because of the room and acoustic treatments they're in. Equipment alone may get you there, but likely at a much higher cost than getting the room properly built and acoustically treated. However I do have $18,000 speakers so I don't reject having good equipment, just saying that is definitely not all there is to achieving good sound.

Here's a pair for $14K 

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649804571-kef-blade-2-high-gloss-black-mint/

As others have mentioned there have been some sales in the $12k-$14k in the last six months. 

Great, and here I was so happy with my LS50's...

I have wanted to hear a set of the Blades, guessing I would have the same reaction. Alas, I have no space for something that large, but we can dream.