I have noticed that since the Orange fuse was introduced, a few threads have as usual popped up but what is bugging me is that they are closed as soon as they are started. Why is so? Is discussing about fuses so controversial that it gets the same outcome when sex, religion and politics are brought up in internet discussions? Is this because of a few rotten apples/trolls that derail the discussions that those threads are closed? If this is the case, that's very sad. Anyone here care to explain?
Most of us here really enjoy listening to music and are here to share and learn anything we can that will help us make the music sound even better. A small but very noisy minority have other priorities. The stories like the people vary but the one thing they all have in common is an inability to listen. They can't hear worth a damn.
Read their posts, you will see. They never compare anything based on how it sounds, unless its to say something meaningless like its better or they like it. Never a word about imaging, sound stage, depth, attack, decay, timbre, tone, or any of the hundreds of things the rest of us use to describe what we're hearing. But they know that's the whole reason we're here, and so they are unbelievably jealous. Jealousy leads to envy and spite and so they joke to relieve the tension in their sorry lives and attack those of us with ears who they see as the reason they have to be so miserable.
I keep trying to tell them listening is a skill. No one has it, we all have to learn, and they can too. But for some its too late. All they will ever do is bash and criticize, insult and demean. Which admittedly are tools of debate. When all you have is a hammer though then everything is a nail. That's another thing they could stand to learn, how to add tools to their tool box. To learn how to learn.
Fortunately while prolific and noisy they are few in number. One approach is to simply ignore them. As much fun as it is to debate, you will notice they never really do debate. They may talk and pose and pretend as if they want to, but watch, they never really do. So don't get sucked in. Just ignore them. They crave attention. Don't give it to them. Make them earn it. If you engage at all, ask what they have actually done. Because almost always its pure hot air. They have done nothing. Then ask them what differences they hear. Stick with what matters. Ignore the rest.
Miller....right on the money. Guttenberg today is talking about listening as a skill. It took me some time to learn but I wish I had better hearing at this stage in my life.
It really is a skill. Said it before, bears repeating. Again and again.
Its a skill, and a hard one to learn at that. A lot of the usual assumptions simply do not apply. Like, listen to musical instruments. I grew up learning to play. Mostly french horn, but also trumpet, sax, harmonica, piano. Makes you real good at discerning pitch and tone. Which sounds good but in hindsight handicapped me for years. All the years I listened for what I was good at listening for, under the false assumption that was all that mattered.
Problem is, all musical instruments, whatever attack and decay, whatever timbral or harmonic character they have, its all natural and to some extent under the control of the performer. In any case its all natural. Being real good at hearing the difference in the shape of your hand and how far into the bell it goes in the sound of a french horn doesn’t exactly carry over into hearing the difference in liquidity and image depth from faster diodes in a solid state amp.
Its a whole different set of sonic attributes. And it doesn’t do any good to say that just because you can’t hear them, or more to the point aren’t aware that you’re hearing them, that they aren’t important.
One thing I did early on was drag my wife around to act as impartial observer to check my evaluations. Actually a more negative opinion since she wants to spend even less than I want to spend. Which is, for the record, zero. Yet time and again we got the same result- she couldn’t say exactly how, but the better sounding gear always sounded better. She preferred it. By enough to be worth paying more for. Even though she couldn’t say why or how.
This has been demonstrated so many times in the years since its beyond doubt. People can and do hear these things, and people definitely do prefer better- even though many times they cannot express their feelings well enough to say exactly why. That part took me years. Truth be told, still working on it.
Is this because of a few rotten apples/trolls that derail the discussions that those threads are closed? If this is the case, that’s very sad. Anyone here care to explain?
"If this is the case" No, it’s more the "few rotten shills" that get them closed, just look at the usual ones that shill for these SR fuses (one has answered here) and you’ll see it’s just a well orchestrated advertisement for snake oil fuses. (especially SR ones).
Do a search on just Orange Fuse (let alone the other colors) have a look at the end and see how many threads get shut down it’s quite a few now, it’s a eye opener, all because of a handful that shill for SR.
Audiogon are not stupid they know when the site is being "used" for commercial product gains by so called "members", one of the main ones even admits he works as a tester for their fuses.
And BTW
The only way a fuse can sound better, if it replaces old crusty one that seen too many switch on surges over time, doesn’t have to be $200 fuse, should be $2 same one but new, and the same result will happen, and switch-on surge ageing will be the same for both $200 fuse or the $2 fuse
Most of us here really enjoy listening to music and are here to share
and learn anything we can that will help us make the music sound even
better. A small but very noisy minority have other priorities. The
stories like the people vary but the one thing they all have in common
is an inability to listen. They can't hear worth a damn.
Read
their posts, you will see. They never compare anything based on how it
sounds, unless its to say something meaningless like its better or they
like it. Never a word about imaging, sound stage, depth, attack, decay,
timbre, tone, or any of the hundreds of things the rest of us use to
describe what we're hearing. But they know that's the whole reason we're
here, and so they are unbelievably jealous. Jealousy leads to envy and
spite and so they joke to relieve the tension in their sorry lives and
attack those of us with ears who they see as the reason they have to be
so miserable.
George, you should be associated with those other sites that bash cables/fuses/practically any tweak that cost more than $5. Again, you comment about “snake oil fuses” is absurd, it’s your opinion, and a weak 1 at that. I know people with very nice equipment that use 3rd party fuses and they like them. If you don’t like them, keep your nonsense comments for the other naysayer sites
Ah sorry sunshine, ask any Electronic (general/sound/audio) Engineer about AC mains fuses and what a $200 SR fuse can do better than a 50c Bussman, and get them to state it here in person. And then also ask him about the BS sound differences found in "directional" orientation of said AC mains fuses.
It’s all voodoo snake oil BS punished here in these forums by the manufacturers shills, to take the gullible members with no EE knowledge at all for all they have, as well as getting them to play around with mains that is potentially dangerous for them to be fiddling with.. That's why so many of these fuse thread are shut down. Audiogon aren't stupid they know, and have access to many EE's
And BTW
The only way a fuse can sound better, if it replaces old crusty one that seen too many switch on surges over time, doesn’t have to be $200 fuse, should be $2 same one but new, and the same result will happen, and switch-on surge ageing will be the same for both $200 fuse or the $2 fuse
Listen to Paul McGowan of PS Audio talk about fuses in a Dec 13, 2017 video on PS Audio's website. He doesn't know how or why (nor do I), but he concludes that fuses can make a difference in sound and his company listens to the difference before selecting the fuses in its products. In defiance of science, I have ordered the Orange fuses and will test them for myself.
Millercarbon is exactly right. One has to learn to hear and how to listen. The ability to hear soundstage, depth, and imaging is not innate; it is an acquired skill that must be learned. This requires effort. My friends who introduced me to audiophilia decades ago spoke of hearing just these qualities, leaving me wondering what the heck they where talking about. With repeated listening sessions and much effort, I learned how to listen. I happily and enthusiastically “graduated” upon my being able to appreciate the amazing depth of image in “Nights in White Satin” (MFSL 1/2-speed remaster of The Moody Blues’ “Days of Future Passed”, played through Accoustat 4s). It’s been a great ride ever since then. I am a skeptic individual, but I certainly trust my ears.
I was a big skeptic till i tried a set of SR blue. I was scratching my head even more when the sound slightly changed when reversing direction. Its subtle but one direction is more detailed and fluid. Subtle effect, but its there. I was not alone, and few other friends could put their finger on differences. Honestly I didn't want the fuses to work so I would return them after satisfying my curiosity!! something about the whole vibe of SR screams snake oil lol. But they did things that i liked. More depth, more definition, enhanced separation, things felt quieter. Subtle but noticeable changes. Like changing cables kind of difference, not components change. Then after a while I upgraded all fuses to Orange. It felt like a more mature sound, things got even more fluid and relaxed without losing dynamics/speed. Vocals become more defined and sweeter. At that point I decided to get HFTs and FEQ X4 which i did got HFTs a month a go and FEQ just yesterday. mind blown right now, But would talk about that in its thread! To be clear, not everything from SR is perfect. apparently not from first hand experience. In a friend's house, he has some SR expensive ethernet cable, forgot the model but it has that tuning thing to tweak the sound. We swapped vs my AQ diamond which i believe is one of the best ethernet cables on the planet, the SR sounded literally muffled, mushy and lifeless. That occasion was probably the biggest change i ever heard from swapping an ethernet cable. So yeah i don't think SR is a perfect company and until i try another cable of theirs, my idea about then is they are inferior. But i highly recommend their fuses to a friend. Same for HFT and FEQ!
As Millercarbon stated too many people don’t know how to listen. That not only applies to music ,their stereos but others as well. When I go to a business meeting with people I am not too familiar with I watch to see who are the talkers and who are the listeners. When they do talk a large portion of the best ideas come from the listeners. Unfortunately there are people who have not only lack listening skills they don’t even know how to communicate properly, they just rant . I like a good exchange of ideas and there are a lot of really knowledgeable people on this site that even though I might not agree with everything they state , I do listen.
There are those who appreciate art, and those who do not. This applies to the art of music as well.
Millercarbon’s excellent essay above reminded me of a trip I took to the fabulous Getty Museum of Art in Los Angeles. Here, you can see spectacular paintings and sculptures by the true masters of the past.
I was accompanied on the trip with my brother and one of our best childhood friends. My brother and I had to stop and admire each painting, paying close attention to the colors, how the artist played with light, and the subtle brush strokes, and then discuss each painting. We spent several minutes, to even twenty minutes and longer, to admire each work of art. Our friend, on the other hand, could hardly wait to get to the next exhibit, and then on to the food court.
Art has to be appreciated not only with the eyes but with the soul as well. Music is no different, it too, in order to be appreciated to its fullest, must be listened to with the soul. Once that is realized, then we have learned what to listen for.
To the naysayers on this site, all I have to say is ... The food court is out that door, down the hall, and to the left.
As Millercarbon stated too many people don’t know how to listen. That
not only applies to music ,their stereos but others as well. When I go
to a business meeting with people I am not too familiar with I watch to
see who are the talkers and who are the listeners. When they do talk a
large portion of the best ideas come from the listeners. Unfortunately
there are people who have not only lack listening skills they don’t
even know how to communicate properly, they just rant . I like a good
exchange of ideas and there are a lot of really knowledgeable people on
this site that even though I might not agree with everything they state ,
I do listen.
Thanks and if you search out and read my review of the Blue fuse you may notice a pretty good example of not only how to listen but "how to communicate properly" as opposed to rant.
Far from shilling the review properly states my first impression was not all that good. The sound was deeper and more dynamic, yes, but yet not quite right. It was disjointed, chaotic, wrong. Forget exactly how I put it but it was something like that. Anyway, point is it didn't sound right- and I knew it!
So I flipped it around the other way and that was it. Everything fell into place. Beautiful.
It never has gone back the other way. Why would it? If directionality was some vague hard to be sure thing then I'd be switching back and forth till the end of time or I got tired, whichever came first. If it was some random thing I'd never be sure. Instead, I knew first, then did the switch, then left it alone because it was right.
Also I've been at pains to make clear this is not some super power I was born with. It took a long time and a lot of work to develop. Why, and how in the world did this happen? It was as simple as this: when some people said they could hear, I listened to them.
The only reason threads like this get closed down is because trolls like George go out of their way to denigrate and incite others to levels of acrimony way out of proportion to the discussion. He even rejoices in the closing of threads, bragging about it like a 10 year old. Just go back and read his rants and you'll see.
Maybe threads that trash people with an opposing view’s ability to appreciate art or listen properly deserve to be deleted? That seems to serve no useful purpose and would qualify as spam.
Personally I prefer them to stay. They are very educational.
Your skill in listening is only as good as the best system you’ve heard. And most systems bottom out pretty fast. Yes, I know what you’re thinking, “but my system sounds fabulous!”
Your skill at listening is very much improved by listening to unamplified music in a reverberat space. You can of course make great strides comparing apples to apples with a one or few variable change - a “ free way “ to do this is the 2L download test bench. I have no financial connection to 2L, so I am no shill there.
iF your dominant references are multi track recordings done in a studio, I believe you are chasing your tail on a never ending 31 flavors merry go round... but IF that floats your boat go for it!!!
The ability to hear soundstage, depth, and imaging is not innate; it is an acquired skill that must be learned.
Nonsense. Attend any live acoustic venue and it is immediately obvious.
The problem I, as a skilled designer and listener, is that all the sonic claims for fuses occur all the time without doing anything. How many fuzers change their B+ fuses in situ in the rack with the power live? It's been known for decades that merely replugging a system can have beneficial effects. see http://ielogical.com/Audio/WinterBlues.php
Turning off and on a systems totally changes the thermal profile of the amp and speakers. Said thermal profile is audible.
Fuzers claim that blind testing is invalid. Decades of experience dictates otherwise.
Fuzers can give no electrical reason. Hell, at least cables have LCR properties which can be measured and correlated with changes with properties of various kit.
ieales Fuzers claim that blind testing is invalid. Decades of experience dictates otherwise. Fuzers can give no electrical reason. Hell, at least cables have LCR properties which can be measured and correlated with changes with properties of various kit.
+ every technician that’s ever held a soldering iron Fuzers have and never will have any cred to what they say, it’s just all voodoo BS.
And BTW, to all fuzers.
The only way a fuse can sound better, if it replaces old crusty one that seen too many switch on surges over time, doesn’t have to be $200 fuse, should be the same $2 one that came out but new, and the same result will happen. Switch-on surge ageing will be the same regardless for both $200 fuses or the $2 fuses, there is no magic.
geoffkait Georgie Porgie, is it true that when you lie your pants really are on fire?
Anyone that believes in this guys fuse sonics opinions and his 4 other fuzer mates, is as bad as they are, and they deserve to have their gullible pockets emptied, this is the kind of stuff he sells on his website. $99-$129 for a bag of "sonic rocks"!!!. http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm
Subject any fuse to an incoming rush of current over and beyond what it is designed to handle and you'll see what happens is what George shows with his silly slide show of fuses.
It makes one wonder just how awful the gear is that it that it was designed that way. It also questions whether the proper value is being used.
You call that an "audio product"? I’ve now heard everything!
Have I told you lately that I love SR Orange fuses?
And BTW, to all potential fuzers.
The only way a fuse can sound better, if it replaces old crusty one that seen too many switch on surges over time, doesn’t have to be $200 fuse, should be the same $2 one that came out but new, and the same result will happen. Switch-on surge ageing will be the same regardless for both $200 fuses or the $2 fuses, there is no magic.
The only reason threads like this get closed down is because trolls like
George go out of their way to denigrate and incite others to levels of
acrimony way out of proportion to the discussion. He even rejoices in
the closing of threads, bragging about it like a 10 year old. Just go
back and read his rants and you'll see.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe this is all a matter of perception? He sees himself as Don Quixote, chivalrously saving defenseless audiophiles from greedy charlatans. We see him as, "None shall pass!" the Black Knight in Monty Python, hilariously oblivious to having been (rhetorically) shredded limb from limb.
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