My observation is that any of the Pass XA.8 series amps hits the sweet spot between tubes and solid state ... particularly if paired with the right tube amp. I use them with an OTL tube preamp (Joule Electra) to drive my Avantgarde Duo horns (107 dB sensitivity). Thought I might miss my tube amp so I did not sell it. Figured I might use it instead of the Pass from time to time ... has not happened in two years.
Is there a Solid State amp that can satisfy a SET guy?
Have been a SET guy for so long I have forgotten what a good SS amp even sounds like.
Just bought a pair of $33k speakers that will replace my current $16k speakers. Both are from the same designer and both are 92db and a flat 8 ohms. The new ones arrive in 4 days!
My 300B based amps well drive my current speakers even though I do use the system nightly as a 2 channel home theater. Especially considering the HT usage, I think I may enjoy a SS amp with many times the horsepower. The speaker designer suggests using a Leema Hydra II. I have written to Leema telling them of my 300B preference and they assure me that their amp does not have the destructive harmonics that make a SS amp bright. There must be other SS amps that can satisfy?
Just bought a pair of $33k speakers that will replace my current $16k speakers. Both are from the same designer and both are 92db and a flat 8 ohms. The new ones arrive in 4 days!
My 300B based amps well drive my current speakers even though I do use the system nightly as a 2 channel home theater. Especially considering the HT usage, I think I may enjoy a SS amp with many times the horsepower. The speaker designer suggests using a Leema Hydra II. I have written to Leema telling them of my 300B preference and they assure me that their amp does not have the destructive harmonics that make a SS amp bright. There must be other SS amps that can satisfy?
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grey9hound geoffkaitI HIGHLY recommend Sistrum Apprentice platforms. I have them under my Tekton Double Impact speakers. IMO they are Excellent http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com/SistrumApprentice.php >>>>Actually, the guys at Starsound don’t believe in isolation/decoupling, their stands work on a different principle, for better or worse. The Sistrum is what I call a “shedder.” |
You should try what the Tetra designer told you, the Leema. I’ve never seen nor heard one but obviously you bought the $33k speakers for a reason. No offense intended but why are you listening to all of us when you evidently trust the designer’s ear enough to spend your cash on his speakers but not enough to take the rest of his advice for the amp he recommends? Why did you upgrade speakers? What amp was being utilized when you demoed the speakers and made the decision? I happen to have a set amp and a solid state amp and two other tube amps in other systems. None of which feature your speakers so why on earth would you listen to me? |
As a result of being in sales and service of audio gear for a very long time, we have yet to encounter a solid state amp that can match a tube amp in terms of warmth and space. Just as true, we have yet to encounter a tube amp that has the tautness and attack of a solid state amp. A push pull tube unit is a bit more of a happy medium between the two extremes. |
I thought the LSA statement, a tube-pre/SS output was the best amp you have ever heard and it fits your budget? Bit strange to spend $33K on speakers, but place a fairly hard and low limit on the matching amp. mglik78 posts11-06-2008 9:33pmBest amp I have heard is the LSA Statement. The tube preamp section can be bypassed. If you are familiar with Winston Ma at FIM, he uses two in mono with his Avalons Sentinels. I am a dealer-we offer full money back and will pay the return shipping. Before Winston used the LSAs he had the Rowland 301s then the Krell Evolutions. Send him an email... |
How much power do you want? A parallel 300B will get you a bit more power...20w. A parrallel 520B using EMLs will get you to 28w but these are not cheap. New, mine are $23K in Stereo but we usually have a used Argento or two floating around that can be had in low teens. Just a little above your budget. I would just need to have the power supply swapped for US. Right now I have this listed for a customer which is an interesting amp: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9j5a1-art-audio-adagio-stereo-set-amp-27w-tube There were only a couple made and it probably the most power you are going to get from a 300B family tube. In the end, I get that you want to get to about 50w of power which I can't do in anything other than a Push Pull design. BTW...I understand what you mean about 845 monos. I run 45w 845s that are push pull and it is definitely more linear than a 300B. The 845s are going to be about where your warmest SS amps are going to fall. If you don't like 845 monos I am not sure you will ever be satisfied with a SS amp. |
I would like to draw your attention to the german AVM Audio brand. I run an Ovation A6.2 into Dynaudio Sapphires. The craftsmanship of these amps is outstanding. Their class A/AB is amps are very revealing yet very musical. The top of the range amps, AVM Ovation line, combine SState and Tube ouput. These are state of the art/benchmark products that last a lifetime. Very special. Hope you have the opportunity to auditio. |
austinstereo As a result of being in sales and service of audio gear for a very long time, we have yet to encounter a solid state amp that can match a tube amp in terms of warmth and space. Just as true, we have yet to encounter a tube amp that has the tautness and attack of a solid state amp. A push pull tube unit is a bit more of a happy medium between the two extremes. >>>>>You might consider widening your search as a good tube amp will meet your requirements for tautness and attack, obviously the usual audiophile protocols must be followed, you know, room treatments, EMI/RFI treatments, vibration isolation, etc. as a large part of the sound ultimately is a function of “system engineering.” “Plug and play” only gets you so far. |
Depends on the Pass amps. Their amps cover a wide range of musical likes. Those rolled off highs and bloated bass would be speaker dependent as well. techno__dude247 posts06-15-2020 12:01pmYou can try Pass Labs. Some rolled off highs and bloated bass, just like a SET amp... |
austinstereo, "As a result of being in sales and service of audio gear for a very long time, we have yet to encounter a solid state amp that can match a tube amp in terms of warmth and space. Just as true, we have yet to encounter a tube amp that has the tautness and attack of a solid state amp. A push pull tube unit is a bit more of a happy medium between the two extremes." ...we have yet to encounter a solid state amp that can match a tube amp in terms of warmth and space. Just as true, we have yet to encounter a tube amp that has the tautness and attack of a solid state amp. Thanks. It does seems logical that the added distortion of tubes could be likened to the mildly loosening effect of a sonic screwdriver, giving the soundstage the gentlest lack of focus that many find delightful but which will inevitably also lead to a lessening of impact. Particularly obvious with those loudspeakers presenting more of a challenge in regards to efficiency and impedance. SET and high efficiency or high efficiency and SET, is where many decide to finally disembark off the upgrade train journey. Ironically enough, close to the point where many others started, decades ago. |
cd318 It does seems logical that the added distortion of tubes could be likened to the mildly loosening effect of a sonic screwdriver, giving the soundstage the gentlest lack of focus that many find delightful but which will inevitably also lead to a lessening of impact. >>>>Do you write this stuff yourself? 😬 |
The closest, it seems, to the truth is that there are two different paradigms. Jin and Jang?? The Valvet E2 SE seems to be the best option yet. I have long admired many German Audio companies. Surely, German engineering has been on the cutting edge technology forever. They did almost take over the world! But in the Audio world, most great German products are way expensive. The Valvet is only $4k. Maybe because of its simplicity. Only one transistor a channel, short signal path and only 12 wpc. I am very taken by what one reviewer said: “Vacuum tubes are no longer necessary for warmth, texture, purity and correctness”. And I have always been attracted by low power SS amps. My SET amp designer says, “The more power the less magic”. I am pretty convinced that I will never get a sound that is as magic as a great 300B SET (mine are 4 chassis 3 Dimension Audio mono blocks with Takayuki 300Bs-custom made for the prototype Magico Ultimates which used 16 chassis for 4 channels). Not the actual “magic” but maybe a compromise? My new speakers arrive in 4 days. If I feel my current amp does not take hold of the big 3 way speakers with a 12” woofer, I may ask the Valvet distributor for a demo of the 2E SE. |
I have owned and enjoyed Luxman and Accuphase products. Those two brands were cited earlier in this thread. Both of those brands are wonderful sounding, very well built, and both have excellent driving capabilities. I currently own Balanced Audio Technology (BAT) and use one of their tube preamps and one of their SS power amps. Their design has zero global feedback and it does make a difference. The ever so important power supplies are phenomenal. The sound quality is excellent in both staging and imaging, providing a wonderful 3-D experience, and the driving capability is stupendous. Especially in the bass region, it is very impactful. Yet, I still find the upper mid-range and high frequencies to be very pleasant and smooth. My speakers are 88 db efficient. Everyone has their preference, of course. I'm just offering my experience with these products and my opinion. If you can audition BAT products I think you will be very pleased. The VK 255SE power amp retails for $9K so it is right in your budget range. And I may add, it is exceptionally well built. Their website is full of information and very good graphics. All US engineering and manufacturing. Hope this helps. Do enjoy your new gear, whatever you land on with your final decision. |
@mglik So, you are going to try Valvet because the Third Reich had a little momentum before they didn't? Do you know someone running that amplification with your speakers? Its your money but I still wonder what you heard these speakers driven by that made you want to shell out $33k? That's the amp you want! Right, the one that impressed you? |
These new speakers, Tetra 606, are my third pair of Tetras. I am convinced IME and by the comments of some of the world's greatest musicians saying slam dunk things. WWW.TetraSpeakers.com It is very convincing. I do listen to the Tetra designer, Adria Butts, and Tetra owner, Ron Carter (the world's most recorded bass player), who loves his Leema Hydra II with his 606s. One of the great things about our wonderful hobby (other than constantly upgrading) is constantly learning. CD318, I do have new insight from your appropriately poetic comment: I get it... If I am not satisfied with the sound of my 300Bs and my Tetra 606s, I may contact the Valvet distributor and see if I can get a demo of the E2 SE. As wisely mentioned, I will have to be patient and not jump to conclusions but try to appreciate what that SS can do. I am inspired to circumvent other tube designs and go right for SS! Thank you all for your all your deeply felt feelings--another great thing about our hobby! |
What tube amps are SET amps ? If it more then 8 wpc it is not a true SET 300 b have great mids but are for sure rolled off on top and cannot compete in the bottom octaves with SS amps there are trade off on SS vs valve thst is why personally myself and many use a very good SS amp and a vacuum tube preamp. i use newer Krell And they are high bias in pure class A which gives a lot f tube characteristics to the sound a good hybrid like Esthetics ,it not spelled correct but close.make a very nice hybrid amp. |
A true SET is A single ended Circuit within. That one Tube per channel capabilities,when you use say 2 -300b tubes Around 20 wpc or any set type tube your circuit starts getting more complex and start going into class A mode which takes away from the absolute purity of the SET design Still very good , That is why you will never see a pure SET amp with more then around 8wpc . In design it goes deeper then that just look up a true SET Vacuum tube circuit .In its simplicity a 300 b excels in the midrange thst is why many use these with 104 db klipsch a Khorns or Voxativ drivers for example . or even a external powered sub .below 100 hz. |
The vast majority of SS will not sound like a SET because they are electrically very different.Bakoon amplifiers sound a lot like a SET.A very very good SET.And that is most probably because they operate much more like a SET electrically -no negative feedback/high output impedance/current drive.Although the unique SATRI circuit probably also contributes to that sort of sound.I sold my SET and stopped using my other tube amps when I bought a Bakoon.But like a SET they have to be used with speakers with a highish and flattish impedance to sound their best. Although in my experience they are not nearly as fussy about speakers as the typical SET. |
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned the Firstwatt SIT-3. IMHO if there’s a SS amp that can approach SET magic, this is it. I use both SETs and low-power SS amplification in my system and agree with others that one will not sound like the other. However, the SIT-3 is one of a kind because it’s a no-feedback single-ended circuit based on a rare transistor that behaves like a triode tube. For reference I also own a Mastersound 300B and a Valvet E2 and while I find each one special in their own way, the SIT-3 somehow manages to combine the best of each and I find myself listening to it the most. Having said that, if you REALLY want to be reminded what a good SS amp can sound like, try listening to one of the Gryphon integrateds. My experience with the “little” Diablo 120 has been ear-opening to say the least. |
There is a review which compares the SIT-3 with a Bakoon.They are both great and dedicated to absolute purity of sound but go about it in slightly different ways.The Bakoon is arguably more SET like in its operation .As I understand it they are both basically current drive amplifiers but Pass has deliberately added some voltage drive .SET amps are considered to be quasi current drive.Whatever that means.Just about all SS amps are voltage drive. |
A lot of great suggestions. I really appreciate being part of the Forum. I have learned A LOT! I asked a good friend in the Audio Industry this question. He may be a bit bit dated but he had 1 resounding suggestion-the Pass Labs Aleph! Has anyone had experience with these? Guess it would be the 3 or 5? Any preferences? I have heard a lot about the FW Sit 3 but I own a FW M2 and tried it. Both me and my wife missed the 300B SET sound a lot. I always listen to her opinion. At least, her high frequencies are better than mine. |
He may be a bit bit dated but he had 1 resounding suggestion-the Pass Labs Aleph! Lovely amps but stinking hot, Tone Publications: and I think they are a low gain amp, so they need a high gain ampere that is low noise SS maybe. Or if going direct a very high output dac, over 4v output I think you’d be better off with the XA30’s or XA60, and the bass could also be tighter, if you feel you need more wattage go the XA60’s. There is an Aleph here that that’s for sale. https://www.ebay.com/itm/PASS-ALEPH-5-NELSON-PASS-CLASS-A-Amplifier-Own-a-piece-of-Audio-History/313086985185?hash=item48e57043e1:g:lfsAAOSwqCdewxz3 Here's another one for $1600. https://kahlaudio.com/products/pass-labs-aleph-0s-single-ended-transistor-stereo-amplifier-4000-msrp-2/ Cheers George |
I actually found an Aleph 3 in Finland. Stereophile went nuts for this amp. https://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/674/index.html Think I prefer the 3 over the Aleph 5. My Tetra 606s arrive tomorrow! Think my 300B SETs will push them nicely. But this thread has got me very interested in some slam, detail and bass of a good SS! My speakers are 92db, very flat 8 ohms and simple crossovers with no resistors. They are 3 way with a 12" woofer, ATC dome midrange and Mundorf dipole AMT tweeter). The only remaining question is whether it would be better to have the Aleph 5 with 60 wpc or the Aleph 3 with 30 wpc?? |
