For anyone who denies there are differences in cables, I have news for you. There are vast differences. I just switched interconnects between my CD transport (Cyrus) and DAC (Schiit Gumby), and the result was transformational. Every possible parameter was improved: better definition, better soundstaging, better bass, better depth etc. I can’t understand how any audiophile with ears can deny the differences. Is it delusion or dogma?
@devilboy I critique as I listen. Well 90% of the time. Some music, depending on the source will sound different. for example, my vinyl music definitely sounds different to my streamed music. I and very focussed on vinyl, more than likely because of the constant attention it needs, whereas streaming is just that.
My point is that the system in essence stays the same, but the source changes the music quality. I do not expect that my system will sound appreciably different if I went on a spending spree and upgraded my interconnects or speaker cable for a few thousand.
If I spent that on component upgrades, I would most likely hear a qualitative improvement.
My "unqualified" opinion, in that I am not qualified by way of in depth theory or extensive listening of a huge number of different cable combinations, is based on my own system and the numerous friends and HiFi listening rooms. To this time, and I haven't achieved "nirvana", I don't see the immediate need to rewire my system at exorbitant cost.
Having said that, I cannot dispute that some listeners appreciate the change in the way a system sounds after changing (a) cables. That is their fair and right opinion.
@nonoise, you've got to be kidding me. Seriously you have to be joking. EVERYTHING about Audiogon is centered around the idea that entry level or mediocre equipment is not sufficient for enjoying music. Otherwise everyone would have a Boombox and that's all they would ever need. Why the hell do we have preamplifiers selling for $10,000? If you need a $10,000 preamplifier to ENJOY music then you're an a**hole.
Come on man. You've been in the game for a long time like the rest of us. You know this.
Your statement of everything here having to do with evaluation vs. enjoyment is not the same as the above statement. That, and they are not mutually exclusive. In fact, evaluation and enjoyment more often than not go together.
If that statement was shorthand for your boombox quote, then far be if for me to be able to devine that since my crystal ball is on the fritz.
I am still using a Pioneer cd player circa 1986 that I paid the grand sum of $25 for and it sounds pretty darn good to me. I have some cables that cost many times that ....lol.
@Elizabeth, why didn't you type the beginning of my sentence which read, "EVERYTHING about Audiogon is centered around the idea..." I am not a snobbish audiophile. Quite the opposite actually. The whole purpose of Audiogon is to sell high-end audio equipment to people who feel they need high-end audio equipment to fully enjoy their music.
Cables add their own flavor to the Sonic signature of your system. They are in fact, tone controls.
How does not imply that when you change audio cables, you change the sound? And you didn’t add any caveat like "sometimes."
Just for an example, if the wire inside of your components is X and the wire connecting those components is Y, then wouldn’t be logical to assume that you are adding something different to the signal?
In terms of altering the audible content of the signal?
No. That doesn’t necessarily follow at all. That a cable carries a musical signal does not entail that it "flavors" the musical signal. A competent working cable shouldn’t "flavor" the sound, it just passes the signal along. If the cables within the component are not altering the signal within the audible spectrum, and the cable you attach to the component is not altering the signal within the audible spectrum...(and those are measurable) then there’s no reason to think one cable is "flavoring" the sound any differently than the other. No more than transferring your pictures or software from one computer to another will alter or "flavor" them differently. Sure analog isn’t as reliable as digital in terms of replication, but electrical theory is reliable enough to do a very good job at preserving fidelity. That’s pretty much why we have electrical theory to describe how you transmit a signal reliably among different cables, and the reasoning behind cable construction and selection in the first place. It’s why, for instance, in the interconnect cable tests I linked to, you saw essentially identical measurements among different cables, and no one could reliably tell the sound apart.
If every single cable altered the actual sound signal to the degree many audiophiles seem to assume, audio fidelity should be utterly horrible, given how many cables sound passes through from recording to mixing to mastering through all the components in consumer systems.
devilboy. have you checked the classifieds here of late? A LOT of lower priced stuff for sale as well as the high end and guess what? it sells. And have you tried to sell true high end gear of late? its a tough sell right now.
Elizabeth, If you want to try some relatively inexpensive power cords that sound great, try the Oyaide Tunami from VH audio with Furutech F-11M ends. You can assemble these pretty cheap. I went from the Pans to that & it was a nice upgrade.
Audiogon is primarily a forum for the sharing of ideas or facts. there is also a marketplace where all manner of HiFi equipment is available from low-end ranging to the hi-end. Even I have bought from the marketplace and I am in Australia.
We do not have the diversity or quantity of equipment here in comparison. Unfortunately we pay a penalty in exchange rate, import duty and shipping costs. But being selective and patient one can grab a bargain.
And just to keep on topic... My $25 cdp is using ic that cost over 10x the price of the player. And yes I CAN tell a difference between using those and a pair that are circa $40 so not sure what that tells you overall but there you go.
GK Them old Sony discmans are pretty sweet units! Sort of jealous I hate to admit, if I could find a decent working one at fair price I would give one a spin...pun intended! Were the Panasonic ones as good as the Sonys I wonder?
@elizabeth Well, in the case of engine oil, high-zinc oils like Brad Penn are important when driving older muscle cars because of its chemical composition. Today's oils and engines match; older cars require a different chemistry for reasons that are not important here.
As for interconnects, as a former dealer, "the more expensive the better!"
As a civilian, well, the good news is that people are able to believe whatever they want, I guess. I haven't interviewed many electrons, so I really don't know for sure.
As fate would have it I’m listening to a Panasonic portable CD player as we speak. I switched out the Sony just last week. Panasonic, Made in Japan. I’m a big fan of Japanese made stuff. I have to say the Panasonic sounds great. I have a bunch of Walkmans. I would be willing to part with one for cost of shipping.
elizabeth As for the Hurricane. I do not want to spend $11,000 to buy one 3 meter powercord, only to have it still be a meter short. Maybe I could special order a 4 meter Hurricane. for like $15000? I think my powercords are gonna have to be good enough as is. But I thought about it. and tried some. (though clearly the new PC had no break in time. so...... Who cares. yawn.
Lizzie, your calculator is on the fritz. Or your glasses need replacing. Those prices are not even close for the Hurricane. This is what happens when you get all excepted and jump to conclusions. Besides, if you need a 3 meter power cord you should give some consideration to rearranging things so a one meter Hurricane or whatever will do. I know, that requires effort.
amg56 "To this time, and I haven't achieved "nirvana", I don't see the immediate need to rewire my system at exorbitant cost. " I agree with you amg56, but with an audio system, just a little cheap tweeking around, help to tend to this impossible nirvana. By the way in some live show, the sound of music is horrible, because the sound man is nearly deaf... That's why my music references are classical live music.
speaker cables are important interconnects are 10x more so
think of it in this manner: you live in a dry area and you have a rooftop cistern for rainwater. in your home you have a storage tank with sophisticated purification filters.
you decide to connect the two with a dozen dirty socks that you have sewn together
Your analogy seems to presume a rather huge level of incompetency in cable design.
Cables seem to have been well designed to transmit hi fidelity signals for a great many years, so I'm not sure why a system is likely to end up so compromised.
In cable terms, what for instance would equate to "dirty socks?"
Glory be--I needed a cuppa and a lie down--I agree with something GeoffKait said !!!!--Cables are NON directional well in my system anyway -no sonic difference (SE) Chris Sommovigo --who's cables I use spoke the same tongue.
Re the Transparent Music link "Boxes" Corey Greenberg cut one open some time back-- the Pic should be on Google search somewhere.
This morning I was exploring SVS Sub interconnects. I was referred to their Soundpath shielded sub cable. One reviewer wrote this candid comment:
“I was using coat hangers for speaker wires before (just kidding), what a difference these cables made to my sound system. I can hear instruments and voices that where not audible before. I’am very pleased with the quality and performance from these cables. Highly recommended.“
@johnread57I note the statement that the cable was directional. Directional only because one end was earthed at the source end thus grounding EMI and RF. I note some poster's claim all wire cable is directional, but I still do not understand why...
I want to be a believer as I want the best sound I have Para A23 NAD51 Bryston Pii I have interchanged Audioquest Cinnamon Coffee and Diamond USB bbetween Bryston and NAD There has been zero difference in the sound wuality between the three cables The Coffee made the sound louder I have also ugged in a RS Dimitri with Shyunta Zitron Python again no difference in sound whether plugged in wall or Dimitri What could posdibly be wrong with this I had someone else listen as well and they didnt hear any diffetence
I used to love my big V8s too. E39 M5, Corvette Z06. Then I bought a 911 and man is that whole chassis and flat 6 fun.
As for the EE degrees, I have one and I had a coworker who was a signals guy (Intel) who swore cables would make no difference in a stereo. I had three different options and after switching between them, he conceded that all three were much different.
I do not understand the few people who claim they make no difference.
As for the statement that cables can only transmit a signal without changing it, I suggest that is only partially true. You are still transmitting from one driver network to one receiving network and the cable (impedance, inductance, etc) will affect how that signal is transmitted. But yeah, the whole point is to create a system where you like the sound and enjoy listening to it.
I am buying an awesome amp tomorrow and probably a PS Audio Stellar GCD DAC/Pre next week. Then I have a problem because I don’t have any XLR cables at the house because I’ve never had a balanced pre-amp before. This will be interesting.
@ron1319 I feel there's some excitement building! Never had a Porsche or a V8. Had a V6 Capri in my youth, and an MGB even before that... my eyes turned to motorcycles, road and dirt. Lesson, if you want to get damaged, buy a motorcycle. :)
Cables: as long as I can hear what I expect, then I'm ok with that.
Sorry guys, when I use the word directional I’m referring to unshielded cables, interconnects, power cords, hdmi cables, etc. The shielding is a separate issue.
I am not sure just how much value there is the higher up the food chain you get on cables as have not explored that higher end...yet. However present progress suggests that the more cables I have swapped out the more I hear a difference. Not always for the better I admit. Maybe one day I will try a $5000 or even $10000 pair of ic or sc just to see.....
For the same reason copper bracelets are sold by the millions. Anecdotal evidence is worthless. Humans feel what they're told my marketing to feel and hear what they want to hear.
This is the sort of nonsense promoted and proselytized by those who proclaim themselves objectivists and truth tellers they portray themselves as having some special scientific knowledge, ability and expertise when the fact is they do not know what they are talking about anecdotal evidence has great potential value and true scientists investigate and explore rather than dismiss and insult and in this particular instance the comparison to copper bracelets is a form of logical fallacy which is a common violation committed by these self-proclaimed experts and this guy has only two posts he may be some loser here like "gdhal" reincarnated he was thrown off this group for his fraud and deceit!
Can you take one of your new cables, put it on one channel and take one of the old cables and put it on the other channel and then make a high bitrate FLAC recording with this setup so the rest of us can hear what you are talking about? We have the technology folks. Why hasn't some one done this already.
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