Thanks, frogman! I bet your Manley kit sounds very nice, and I suspected it bests a high percentage of the integrated mentioned here.
I wonder an a set-up like yours would cost --if it could be found used -- when cabling etc. is figured in.
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I suppose it depends. One can always start with a pair of solid good sounding, but moderately priced IC’s. Nordost Red Dawn works great in my setup, in part due to the Manleys’ and EAR’s inherently full sound. Not too pricey used. I continue to think it can be done at around the $3K, or very close to it if one is patient and does due diligence. As far as “pods, fuses”, etc. Sure, but who says that one necessarily has to go down that route? I’m a tweaker, but while my system does sound better with well chosen tweaks, it still sounds great without any of them.
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Out of one side of our audiophile mouths we talk about how bad home theater receivers and processors are because of all the things jammed into them, but then we rave about how great it is to have an amplifier, preamp, headphone amp, and phono stage in an integrated. Hmm.
There's no one size fits all "right" or "wrong" answer to this question.
Separates typically give you more flexibility. They usually have more input/output options. If you decide there's a weak link in your system (you need more power, you need a phono stage with more gain or loading options than the one in your preamp, the headphone amp doesn't have enough power for your new cans, etc.), you may be faced with replacing your integrated or adding another component that duplicates one of the components in your integrated.
On the other hand, an integrated may have all the features / functionality you need and require less space. You don't have to get anything more than the amp / preamp in the integrated and can add other items as needed.
I have 2 systems with separates and two with integrated amps. I use what I want/need that works best in the space I have and gives me the features/functionality I want/need in that space.
Whichever option works best in your space and meets your needs is the "best".
Honestly, it sounds like you're in the early part of the learning curve. You would probably benefit from finding a couple of dealers near you that have good reviews and spending some time describing your listening environment, what you currently have, and what you want and getting some recommendations. Your questions are pretty broad and you would benefit more from an extended conversation that a few posts on a message board.
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I own 2 tube integrated amps. Kt88 and EL34. 50 watts of tube power is more than enough to suit my comfortable decibel levels. Tubes rule!
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Easy! Sugden A21se signature class A integrated @ $3250...there is NONE better at that price, sorry....I should know, as I buy and sell equipment like there is no tomorrow, and thus far, my Sugden is not going anywhere....it is a keeper.
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Check out the Peachtree Nova 300 with a bluesound node. You won’t be disappointed.
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big_greg's thoughtful post is very well taken (though I'd not want to draw any inferences from the SQ from my Yammy HT receiver ;))
Certainly, a wide range of implementations could work very well at your price-point.
It does sound like this is early days for you, klimt,; if so, the first and best advice is don't hurry. First, shopping and learning is fun, and second, you'll save yourself grief.
(Eg., Fairly early on, I sold a nice preamp, because PS Audio said you could get better sound just running the volume control on their then brand new Perfect Wave DAC (thanks Paul!). I did this without listening (maybe I used the pre to finance the DAC). Turned out most ANY preamp sounded better in my system than the digital volume in the Perfect Wave, including the ancient ADCOM that had gathered dust in my garage for years.)
Second, keep doing what you're doing, and talk to folks. COVID makes it's it a bit more challenging, but if things open up, try to get to one of the Spring shows, where you can hear lots of stuff, and talk to lots of helpful folks.
And if you haven't already, do a "Any Audiophiles in [My Area]?" post. Not only did this help a ton with my system, and lead to a lot of great listening, I've had two good friends for the past 15 years.
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Just get a 2 channel power amp and use your Denon as a pre for 2 channel. You will be surprised how the dedicated amp helps your 2 channel come alive. You can also get a phono sound stage that can improve your vinyl and connect a dedicated DAC streamer for digital. I bought a Emotiva BAS-A2 (160 Watts per channel) for my Yamaha A-840 and it sounds great with my Tekton Lore Be's for 2 channel. It also lets you use the Audyssey setup and remote features from your Denon.
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JUNGSON JA-1/JA-99C CLASS A at under $2000.
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I realize this is outside your budget… but it might be something to go listen to and see if you think the stretch would be worth it. The new Audio Research I/50 integrated. A friend of mine has listened to it and it is great sounding (I really like their higher powered integrateds). This has a very similar sonic character. Buying new you can usually get help on spreading out the cost over time… like zero interest. Might be something to consider. I am a big Audio Research fan.
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I'm a big fan of the Marantz PM7000N. It's the most flexible, best sounding, reliable integrated amp available for $1200. Factory rated at 80w/ch into 4 ohms, it drive most demanding speakers like my KEF LS-50s and Magnepan 1.7s easily. It also a streamer, and has above average DAC and phono preamps as well as both preamp and subwoofer outputs.
While I can't fault the Chronus Magnum III in its analog performance, it has no digital capability whatsoever, so a streamer and DAC are still required to meet the modern definition of an integrated amp. And at 4X the cost of the Marantz.
With that leftover change in your budget, you could step up to the $1000 class turntables like a Rega Planar 3 or Mo-Fi Studio Deck. And still have money left for a decent set of headphones or to take a chunk out of a speaker upgrade.
It's all in about Vp = SQ/Sum(C1 ... Cn) * K. Value Perceived equals Sound Quality divided by the sum of your component costs * K, where K is the qualitative enjoyment factor. K is what allows someone to rationally drop an additional zero or two on the price of their system. Quantitatively, a $100,000 system isn't going to sound 10X better than a $10,000 system, so a qualitative factor accounts for that. Negotiating the value of K is also the foundation of achieving acceptable SAF (Spousal Accepance Factor) levels.
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I noted in your comments you desire a warranty if used. That is not usually the case unless from some dealers in demo units. I think generally a $2-3k integrated will be superior to $1500 or so each separates. There may be some exceptions but you will need to include cabling which adds more expense and you take the risk of needing to find synergy...not always apparent. Parasound makes good performing, high value gear and there is a NIB Hint6 here on the Gon. I would be all over that at $2400, with warranty, $600 below retail. I would also check out Audio Advisor online and shipping out of MI. They offer good brands and returns. I have bought various items from them over 20 years. I recently heard both the Rogue CM and Sphinx v3 and was impressed for the cost. I dont see the CM as a tube sounding amp and there is the heat output issue. It would not work for me in HI but that would be the only reason I would not buy one. It sounds very good. Heard the earlier HINT a number of years ago and was impressed but bought instead the Marantz PM8005, now 8006. It was vergy good sounding, had good power, made in Japan, 3 year warranty and could bypass or use tone controls, also enabled 2 sets of speakers. It has perfromed well for the last 5 years in a main system and now an office. The suggestion of the new Marantz 7000 is a good one for a goo entry level quality amp with dac and streamer. I have had good luck over 40 years with various Marantz pieces and even with other good high end brands in sysems I still find this brand delivers. BTW, Wally Underwood has an excellent NIB Marantz PM KI amp for $2400 vs 4k retail. I saw it on his site tonight. That would be a great amp AND a steal. Good Luck.
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I always believe the sound path should be as shortest as possible. Therefore, no preamp is necessay. What you need are a powerful, high current, clean sounding amp, a well-versed, articulate DAC and a streamer if you desire.
Parasound NC 2250 - $1600; DAC - $900; Streamer - $500
NC 2250 has a sweet, warm sounding and it will pair well with the B&W speakers that tend to be bright. I had its little brother NC2150 and the older model A23. A23 is articulate on top but lack a bit punch on the low end relative to NC2150. NC2150 is more toner balanced with a weighty low end. I think the NC2250 won't disappoint you. $3k is tight on the high end gear and the Parasound NC series is high-end gear without a intimidating factor.
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I can only speak to my experience as I’m in the same budget range. I am happy with a $950 Freya+ and a little tube rolling I have not heard the Vidar at $700 but a pair of Aegir class A amps with 80 WPC would cost you $1600. Throw in a good interconnect XLR and you hit your $3k limit. You will not be disappointed in the sound. I tried a Unico Primo integrated with a single 1AX7 in the preamp state. Good amp but a little too lively for me. $2K until 1.2.202 then goes back to $2500.
One that I’m interested in that people see to like is the Vincent SV-237 at $2705. Tubes in the preamp and a reputation for being on the warm fuller side of things. Not that well review but I liked on Upcale Audios web site and it has five stars.
I think the build quality on the Vincent and Unico are a step above the Schiit. For what it’s worth. I own also own a Schiit Ragnok and it’s a good solid integrated. Solid hitter at $1500. Probably better than some selling for at least $500 more just to keep a lid on the hyperbole.
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Im not going to go through the thread, so my input may have been stated, possibly even by me LOL
Every piece of kit benefits from;
*a quality power cord, typically >$300
*its own shelf (do not stack amp and pre)
* it's own vibration/isolation devices typically > $35 a set (Nobsound is a real bargain)
* a quality interconnect > $200
As you can see, with a $3K budget, these ancillaries reduce the total cost by $500+
You will get a lot more for your $3K buying an integrated
If you could score an old PSAudio GCC 100, 250, or 500 you would have an excellent integrated. My GCC 250 (purchased new) is now > $15 years old
hth
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I recently decided to sell my Raganlj 2 in favor of a Unico Primo integrated ($1999, until 1.2 then it reverts to $2499. Today I got a Vincent SV237 to audition for $2795.
So far I really like the Vincent. Tube in the preamp stage. Has a built in DAC although I doubt it competes with my Gungnir. Tone controls you can switch out. I really like this. I have several speakers and that will come in handy to dial each in. The build quality is excellent but the sucker weighs 45 pounds! Deisgned in German and made in... where se? China. The Primo is made in Italy. The Primo is a little toppy but you can manage it with tube rolling. A Sovtek, or Gold Lion 12ax7 beats the factory tube. Also like a NOS RCA 12ax7. Nod goes to the Vincent.
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