Integrated vs. Separates on a Budget

I'm an integrated guy, so another vote for integrated.

I don't know your  speakers, but I'm wondering if 3k is a large amp investment relative to your current speaker investment (3x?).

If you are pat with the B&Ws for the foreseeable future, I wonder if you couldn't be quite happy with a lower investment in the amp, with more budget for doing things like sorting out the vinyl.

One thing Lordrootman is probably wondering about efficiency. Correct me if I'm wrong -- It looks like your speakers are claimed at 91db.  Given that manufacturers routinely overclaim on this, they are probably less efficient than that, meaning they are relatively low efficiency.

Nothing wrong with that, but it does mean you will most likely need an amp with a bit more power.

For example, a 3k budget gets you in tickling distance of a used Pass INT-30A (or perhaps a demo 25A).  It's a lovely piece (I had one for several years), which could be the heart of an aspirational system for many years.  But at 30 wpc, it won't be the best match with your current speakers (unless they are considerably more efficient than I thought), and will seriously constrain future speaker choices.

So for you, something like Parasound (or perhaps Hegel?), with more juice, would probably be a better choice, even though you'll be hard pressed to match the sweetness of the Pass.

In addition to the Halo, Parasound now has the "new classic," which seems to go for 1300, which would be a good pricepoint to hit.

The Parasound  New Classic integrated has an inboard dac, while the Halo (Parasound makes both integrated and separates under "Halo" & "New Classic") seems not to.

The entry level Hegel, the H95, supports streaming like AirPlay, as I think does the rest of the line.  Looks like it goes for 2000 new. As you go up the line, the wpc increases from the 95's 60, which might be nice for your 91db speakers, depending on your listening habits.  Lots of press on Hegel, see what you think.

Sorry Klimt, I do not have informed opinions about contemporary "Swiss army knife" integrateds -- my Pass is "just" an amp -- although I have enjoyed a friend's Hegel (I would want to get clear on service support from them, though).

I tend to agree with those that think a 3k investment is high, given your current speakers, and you could make a nice match for considerably less.

But I also think that if you stay in the hobby, it is a certainty that your current speakers will not be your last, and it is not unreasonable to invest in an amp you can grow into over time.

Thought of that way, you should probably get a higher power unit, to have more speaker choices in the future.

One thing I wonder about with integrateds incorporating lots of digital functionality like streaming: do they have a long useful life, or do they become obsolete fairly quickly?

For big online dealers, in addition to Crutchfields, there's Musicdirect.

But I'd recommend giving Walter at Underwood hifi a call.  He's smart and helpful, and handles numerous lines.  He may have something that ticks all your boxes.

Personally, I would view the "not all watts are equal" mantra with caution. 

I'd bet against a 20wpc tube integrated working as well as 100 watts solid state (or tube, for that matter) for your 91db speakers, all else equal.  In fact, I wouldn't go near 20 watts for your speakers, no matter how "unequal" they were claimed to be (complications noted by ghdprentice noted).

That said, there are tube amps with more juice in your budget.  Rogue has already been mentioned, and gets great press. I just bought a 60 wpc Jolida/Black Ice used here that sounds lovely, and something like that could be had for way under your budget (see Walter at Underwood for these).

But my sense is many of the tube amps will not have all the functionality you want.  If you are willing to consider a "just an amp" (an approach I'm attracted to), I'd throw Pass SS stuff in the mix with the toobers.

I was staying away from the separates/integrateds debate, but since the thread has gone there:

Years ago, I moved from separates to integrateds.  One of my audiophile mentors suggested I go integrated, and I was a bit miffed, wondering if he was suggesting I was not a "real audiophile." 

But  he was right -- for me.  I agree with many of the points millercarbon makes -- if not his abiding disdain for civility ;) -- regards things  like cabling and rack space. 

I'd add that for me non-sonic considerations favor integrateds: a cleaner, less complex visual on the rack, and less troubleshooting and less to go wrong.  I don't seriously fool with my system much (except for dealing with the ever-fickle Roon!).

Of course, I understand the opposite perspective, favoring a visually imposing rack, with lots to tinker with.

I'm definitely curious to hear the case for separates over integrateds, at the same price point.  I've heard the arguments about less channel cross-talk for monoblocks, but them seems less relevant for separates with 1 box for power, as I assume are discussing here.

Thoughts from frogman or anyone?

Thanks, frogman!  I bet your Manley kit sounds very nice, and I suspected it bests a high percentage of the integrated mentioned here.

I wonder an a set-up like yours would cost --if it could be found used -- when cabling etc. is figured in.

big_greg's thoughtful post is very well taken (though I'd not want to draw any inferences from the SQ from my Yammy HT receiver ;))

Certainly, a wide range of implementations could work very well at your price-point.

It does sound like this is early days for you, klimt,; if so, the first and best advice is don't hurry.  First, shopping and learning is fun, and second, you'll save yourself grief.

(Eg., Fairly early on, I sold a nice preamp, because PS Audio said you could get better sound just running the volume control on their then brand new Perfect Wave DAC (thanks Paul!).  I did this without listening (maybe I used the pre to finance the DAC).  Turned out most ANY preamp sounded better in my system than the digital volume in the Perfect Wave, including the ancient ADCOM that had gathered dust in my garage for years.)

Second, keep doing what you're doing, and talk to folks.  COVID makes it's it a bit more challenging, but if things open up, try to get to one of the Spring shows, where you can hear lots of stuff, and talk to lots of helpful folks.

And if you haven't already, do a "Any Audiophiles in [My Area]?" post.  Not only did this help a ton with my system, and lead to a lot of great listening, I've had two good friends for the past 15 years.