Insanely Expensive....and Worth Every Penny

Larryi , Excellent addition to an already outstanding system

Recently, I bought some insanely expensive midrange drivers and horn (Western Electric driver 713b and 12505 horn). These were in perfect shape and well matched. A few months later, another pair went for a MUCH higher price on ebay (who knows the condition?).

I haven't heard midrange drivers I like better, and they appear to be appreciating in value (they were made some time around 1939, so depreciation due to age is no longer a significant concern). There is the possibility that someone will successfully clone the drivers, but, so far, the other attempts at cloning old Western Electric drivers have not been entirely successful.

if a component is insanely expensive, it may disqualify itself from purchase unless the purchaser is insane.

Polk432: Thanks and I like your shout-out to the Dos Equis dude!!!

Audiofun, what you are doing is not insane. I like you purchase things that I want to keep. You have expensive taste and that's a good thing. Bybee speaker bullets, Ogden wires, rubber coated bricks, little pebbles, dots on the wall etc. are entirely different. I don't tweek often, but when I do, I prefer single malt Scotch. Stay hammered my friends, and happy listening. The most interesting audiofile in the world.

Tbg: I would like to hear my gear on a Stillpoints rack someday. I just bought the Bassocontinuo rack system earlier this year and I am very happy with that unit.

Polk432: I hear you but when I buy, I tend to get the best I can afford for my ears and then I stick with it. I have had my MFA Ref for about 2 years now and I have no intentions of getting rid of it, in fact I added the MFA Baby Ref to the stable for the second system. I have a Graaf Modena which I purchase about 4.5 to 5 years ago and in fact had it modded so that bias and DC-offset can be done externally without ever moving the amplifier. When it sounds right, I stick with it. Now digital... as it changes I have moved from a Bidat and Dynastation 2 to MSB to Metrum Octave to AMR in the last 4 years... but honestly at this point my digital has outperformed (DRASTICALLY I might add) two +$40K analog (one using the Monaco TT and the other an Avid Acutus with SME 5 arm and Dynavector XVS1 cart) front ends so even in the digital front I am very stable. Also I have had my Acoustic Reality Thaumaturges for a couple of years and have not heard better, despite listening to the new Bat Rex amps, the Audiovalve Baldur 300 and the Ayon Orthos II's in a family members system.

Some people enjoy rolling new equipment, I don't I like to get the sound I am after and then stop :)

Nothing. Never have never will. Expensive is ok if it's worth it, just not insanely. Why bother? You know you'll be sick of it SOONER or later.

When I was a boy I thought the Radio Shack receiver I bought for approx. $80 was wildly, insanely expensive; it took all my money and I didn't have speakers! I had to pull a 12" and a 10" full range driver from two console stereos to use as speakers.

It was worth it. :)

Tron Syren full function pre-amp.
Given the opportunity I would buy it again.
Now, if I could only afford the Tron 211 amp .....

Audiofun, I bought two Halcyonic Micro 4s. Each made a major improvement in my sound, but I could not buy more because of their expense. Later I got a StillPoints Rack and two Component stands. With everything on StillPoints, my sound was much better. Of course I don't know what everything on Halcyonics would have sounded like but I didn't have $33,000 to buy three more.

"Insanely expensive" is all in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

I bought a pair of $6000 Bel Canto REF 1000m amps used for ~ a 40% discount compared to new. THis is the most I have ever spent on a single piece of gear (actually 2 monoblocks).

Given my needs, I would say this was worth it.

I suspect I could have gone with similar amps from Wyred4 SOund for significantly less and gotten much of the performance needed, but decided in this case to not cut corners. Normally, I would upgrade a component more slowly over time to avoid overpaying.

The Music First Audio Reference and the MFA Baby Reference along with 2 Halcyonics Silencers. All were very expensive and I think worth EVERY CENT!!! These pieces are a huge part of why I am able to extract the type of sound that makes me want to listen for hour and hours w/o end :)

Linn Sondek is insanely expensive, or for that matter a CJ? I guess in 1970 when I bought Infinity ServoStats for $2100, I thought that was insanely expensive.

Bought my Linn Sondek new in 1984...NO REGRETS...play records with it nearly every day.

Conrad-johnson MET1, a vacuumtubed, 6-channel preamp. WOW does it ever sound good, and 'only' $7K RR!
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1. Jadis JA30 Dual Mono Amplifiers, yet another Jadis nomination ^_^

2. Grand Prix Audio Monaco Stand

i have had the pleasure of living with them for 3 years and counting. they still put a smile on my face everytime i lay eyes on them and when i hear they perform their magic. they are my audio fever pride and joy.

I would nominate the Halcyonics active isolation bases. Two years ago I saw a picture of one at the Stereophile show in NYC. A demonstration of it effect on a container of water with people striking the rack below it. No ripples.

I inquired as to whether anyone had heard its impact on music and received a response from the importer. Subsequently, I got one and tried it. I had to have it despite its high price. In fact I bought a second one which is now used under my amp. The first is now under my transport and dac.

No one has an active isolation base as any motion in the vertical or horizontal directions is sensed and cancelled by the voice coils. The others uses springs, different resonant layers, or air bladders, all of which have respond frequencies. Were I able to afford it, I would have these units under everything.

gentlemen:

after further consideration, it seems that if a component is insanely expensive, it is not worth every penny.

if a purchase is made the cost is not likely to be "insanely expensive". overpriced might be another way of saying "insanely expensive".

after adding up SOME of the receipts i've saved over the years...... i would say that the kiseki purple heart, the apogee caliper signatures, bryston 7B sst's needed to drive them, were all far more expensive than i could afford at the time(i was a line cook). even though i took the bus to work ........ THEY WERE WORTH IT !!!

come to think of it..... they still are -- even though i sold the brystons.

>>Sorry, but I think you need to work harder on your impersonation<<

Yeah, that made much too much sense to be the real Mrt.

Of the components in the system I put together about 15 years ago, the Jadis JA80 tube monoblock amps are priceless. They are still with me. They have survived the major upgrading my system has gone through in the past 2 years. Amongst my new components, the APL Hi-Fi NWO-2.5T CD player is the stand out. Along my upgrade path, it did more to bring me closer to live music than all other components combined. It, in synergy with the rest of the components, has brought Musical Nirvana. The remaining upgrades are also expensive and are well worth it: Kubala-Sosna interconnects and speaker cables, Elrod Statement power cords, Sound Application RLS AC conditioners, and Critical Mass Grand Master isolation/damping platforms. I am now in the middle of implementing Rives' room treatment design for my dedicated listening room. Its shaping to be priceless.

9rw,

Sorry, but I think you need to work harder on your impersonation; I sort of understood what you wrote.

9rw, that was great! Had me laughing out loud!

hi cwlondon:

the original quad, the esl, is priceless in its recreation of timbral realism.

thank you 9rw for excellence of elocution.

I nominate the Tron Syren pre-amp. I use it with my Avantgarde Duo's and Audiopax Model 88s. It is hands down the most transformative investment i have made in audio.
What has made it such a worthwhile investment is that it optimizes the rest of my equipment. Since I got it, I have been re-listening to recordings that have been on the shelf for years -- just so i can see what i have been missing

Hey 9rw nice reply. You have made my day. Thank you.

Gawdbless: Please do not encourage Mrtennis. He's likely to respond with something like this:

What precisely do you mean by entertaining? Entertainment is entirely subjective. There are no absolutes. To some, comments from a moron might be entertaining. To others, those observations might merely be annoying. The bigger questions are whether the comments are meaningful to society and whether they make life on this planet better. In either case, we can all become more enlightened, and probably a lot more confused about what the original question might have been.

MrTennis

Which version of the Quad do you think is most likely to be worth every penny?

I purchased a pair of new pair Linn Isobariks DMS way back in 1983 ($2500), which were at the top end of Hi-fi speakers to me. It hurt a lot financially and sacrifices were made to purchase them, but for the enjoyment they gave It was well worth the outlay. They served their time very well until a fatal day in 1995, I heard an Incredible pair of horn speakers ($6500) which were a must have, sacrifices were also made to purchase them. The Bricks found a new home at my brothers house. The new speakers were bought, installed and always give 100% musical satisfaction (to me), so are more than well worth their weight in gold (to me).At the end of the day It all boils down to how much one can sensibly afford to spend for their Indulgence/s. A $5000 cd player to someone who earns only $10000 per annum would be insanely expensive, but to Mr Chelsea FC or Mr ManU FC it would be 'beer' money (champagne probably).
Whatever it costs If one can afford it, buy it, sit back and enjoy the experience.
Welcome back MrT, always entertaining.............

Ascribing pricelessness and emotionalism to a commercial purchase tends to release manufacturers from the discipline of the marketplace and into the realm of luxury goods-- where demand becomes inelastic the higher the price. This is a dangerous trend for our little hobby, with too many boutique manufacturers chasing too few buyers with high-priced, high-profit, low-volume sales, while failing to nurture a broad customer base. Watch out when the big money gets bored and moves on to other diversions. For my part, I'll buy audio equipment from high-end manufacturers that offer fair value and price on a cost-plus model. Supporting such manufacturers may ensure their survival.

perhaps i have misinterpreted the question being asked.

i will now give a specific answer which supports my point.

2 pair of quad esl to my ears comes closest to the sound of correct instrumental timbre. therefore if it cost $4000 for 4 of them it would be a great value. if it cost $4,000,000 it would be a great value. the value lies in the fact that one is brought closer to the music than possible when listening to any other speaker. this speaker has a value which cannot be translated into dollars. it's value is inestimable. you can't place a value on audio ecstasy.
the idea of value for the dollar does not apply in this case.

Wow, this discussion is deep. :)

I'll nominate:

ZYX UNIverse phono cartridge
ARC Reference 3 preamp
Stealth Dream power cords

Mrtennis you now state

it is my opinion that purchases are made based upon emotion, not on the basis of a rational process of value for the dollar...

Bravo! A concise and easy to understand premise! A line taken from a Boomtown Rats song states, "The final truth is there is no truth." I understand that pursuing a debate in philosophy, logic, and semantics may prove intellectually stimulating, however, in many cases it only serves to shift a discussion into a myriad of blind allies.

gentlemen:

i have not missed the point. put simply, if i audition a component, and i am in love with the sound of the stereo system, the only question i ask is "can i afford it ?". i don't care if i think it is worth it or not, rather do i want the component badly enough to pay the price.

it is my opinion that purchases are made based upon emotion, not on the basis of a rational process of value for the dollar. in the future, i ihave erred in my logic, please call it to my attention. it may be that i have a different premise, but i try not to confuse.

S7horton: Mrtennis always misses the point.. That's part of his charm.

Tennis, you missed the point. Regardless of how many other components you buy, each and every one should still be worth (to you) what you paid for them. It doesn't matter how many new components you bring into your system.

Great capacitors like the V-Cap TFTF or Mundorf Silver/Gold: they're expensive relative to other coupling caps, but very cost-effective in terms of the performance multiplier that they bring to amps, preamps, and speakers at all price-points.

If I may clarify this debate, yes, "insanely expensive" was not meant to be taken literally, but only as an intriguing and/or amusing title for the thread.

What I was hoping to hear from you were comments on audio components which, on an absolute basis (not relative to income, or relative to one's perceptions) were - by any reasonable standard - very expensive.

To me, "by any reasonable standard" would still leave us with plenty to choose from - all top of the line or "reference" offerings by ARC, Mark Levinson, Jadis, Boulder, Wilson speakers, Pass Labs etc just to name a few.

And "insanely" might even be taken literally if we include full Rives treatments, Rockport turntables, multi thousand $ cartridges or cables and/or anything ever hyped by Harmonix.

For any of these components, it would be interesting to hear whether or not the owners felt they were worth the high price.

Does that help, Mr Tennis?

I am reminded that I did spend the big bucks for a Mark Levinson No 31 in the early 90's something I always thought was worth every penny.

Mrtennis, if I'm ever taken hostage by a terrorist, I hope that you are with me, so that you can do the talking! Either you'll so confuse and obfuscate the terrorist that he will let us go...or kill us on the spot :-)

Mr Tennis (and others), In my view the fault in the original question was the use of the words "insanely expensive" which have apparently been criticized by those who interpert them too literally.

To someone on a limited budget much could be seen as insanely expensive but worthy of purchase because of the satisfaction it would bring, but to someone who is fortunately financially blessed the same product bringing the same level of satisfaction might not be seen as insanely expensive, if expensive at all.

FWIW.

Heaven help us! Mrtennis returns with his psuedo-intellectual babble that adds absolutely nothing to this thread. I thought he had gone away or been rehabilitated by now. Obviously that's not the case.

s7horton:

if you audition a component in your stereo system and you prefer the sound of the stereo system with the new component vs the original component, you might buy the new component, regardless of your estimation as to its worth because you like the sound of your stereo system enough to want to buy the component.

i'm not convinced that explicitly or implicitly the idea of value or worth enters into the buying decision all of the time.

While not quite IE;-- but WEP, I give you the Adept Response conditioner.---I live in a 95 unit complex--- Next up my AA Prestige se. Also, while many have more expensive speakers, my Sophia 2's qualify as I bought them brand new.

transparent cable prices vary by, even in the opinion of the people who manufacture them, "a VERY ILLOGICALLY LARGE amount of money". but i got hooked on upgrading them over several years, primarily because i felt my speakers had an almost limitless potential for improvement (eggleston andras). so, when i bought (traded up to) a 20 foot pair of balanced REFERENCE-MM (one step below opus), while the rest of my wire consisted of transparent ultra (they're okay but i can't get no respect from owning those), my speakers gained another octave of bass and the stage opened up like i was overlooking the grand canyon or something. it was pretty magical, and the effect did NOT fade over time; it was like buying a new preamp or an amplifier. neither is this simply a plug for transparent wire, since there are other ways to
get large improvements; this was simply a way that appealed to me, as i was satisfied with most of my other components.
and if i told you what i paid for the andras vs what i have now laid out for interconnects and sp.cable, you would have to agree that an appointment with a mental health professional might make the biggest improvement of all...

The Walker Audio Turntable my wife and I purchased. Very expensive, but worth every penny for vinyl nuts like us.

My amps, Audionote Kagekis, are quite "insanely expensive," but I have not heard anything like them, except for some even more insanely priced amps. If considered on a price per watt basis they are truly insanely priced, as I think the amps put out about 6-watts per channel.

No one has said their divorce to improve WAF of the other insane expenditures.