I don't have really expensive DAC's, but what I do have are:
Bryston BDA2 Dedicated DAC
Internal DAC on my McIntosh C47 preamp
Internal DAC on my HEGEL H160 integrated
Topping D30 Pro Dedicated DAC
Internal DAC on my Bluesound player
When I have swapped my DAC's around, I really can't hear differences...The big differences for me are with speakers. Even the non-golden-ear listener that I am can hear big differences from transducers! I can only guess if I did a perfectly setup double-blind experiment with DAC's, I might be able to hear differences, but they would be ever so slight.
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I think the best way to decide how you like any new component is to live with it for a while. If you don't like it, it will become obvious quickly. If it's close, you can go back and forth and compare. Play lots of different music- see if you enjoy things you hadn't with the prior component. This seems to be the way reviewers do it.
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One big difference for me is that ESS based DAC's seem to always be too bright sounding on my system and headphones. Both have ribbon drivers. I ended up with an R2R DAC that sounds much better to me.
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The SQ and differences in character of DACs can be profound. The rest of the system seems to determine how much of that you'll likely hear.
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Yea, some high priced DACs sound like garbage so a day and night difference. Others I have heard sound just fine. Just spend days comparing bottom tier chip DACs and the differences are as slight as different filters. I have yet to hear one "markedly better" but I'll keep searching. If I had $10K to spend, it would be on speakers. If given another $10K, It would still be on speakers. They matter and the very best of them suck compared to a $100 DAC. I am NOT saying a $4k DAC may not sound better even on $1K speakers, but money spent on the speakers ( or the room) will make a bigger difference.
It really ruffles feathers, but there is a point where there is nothing circuit wise to improve on after a mid-tier level. Mass market entry tier DACs are as good or better than most studio equipment the music was mastered on. Exclusive, aesthetics, price driven placebo, ego... If that is of value, then the market fulfills it.
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All DACs have analog stages that are different from DAC to DAC and so is the voltage output. One would bring more another would bring less... Digital domain is pretty much the same.
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@ ghdprentice
+1
That was some of the best advice I have seen to really get to know what you want and can hear.
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All competently designed DAC's sound alike - whether they cost $100 or $10,000. That's my belief/experience. Your beliefs and experiences may differ. DAC's are not turntables! In fact all competent DAC"s measure closely for distortion and noise.
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@audiodwebe Im with you. I struggle to hear many of the differences that others seem to. For example, I enjoy the SQ of Spotify and although Qobuz occasionally (depending on the recording) sounds different, I wouldn’t say it necessarily sounds better. The very next recording may behave all together differently.
So much of this hobby occurs in the 5” between your ears. Spend a boat load on a component and psychoacoustics and confirmation bias absolutely come into play. We are human after all. Again…only speaking for myself. What I find is that SQ determination cannot occur on the spot (A/B). One recording may shine on one component but another may not. So many variables. It takes me several weeks to decide yay or nay. Two hours in are you surfing the net or are you still engaged with the music? For me that’s the real test. And remember, “different” does not always equal “better”.
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After many years of auditioning audio equipment and analyzing frequency,responses, inner detail, size and shape of the soundstage etc. I now focus mainly on PRAT and musical engagement. If a tweak or new piece of gear gets me toe tapping and frolicking through my music collection with glee, it's a keeper. Good listening. Jeff
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@balooo2 My super bargain performer is the SMSL D-6. Edges out my DO100 due to DSD Direct mode, as PCM performance is roughly equivalent (both fantastic). I'm amazed at what these cheap DACs can do nowadays, high fidelity available to the masses.
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@drewdawg999 What is the dac you are happy with at 1/30 the price?
Thanks!
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Differences between well designed DACs are tough to quantify. I use 2...an older Dacmagic (for older streamer and a CD player) and a current model Bifrost 2/64 for a newer streamer. Both sound amazingly good with an edge to the Bifrost, which will be tested further when I get a Schiit Urd (!) and use their bespoke USB system.
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@audiodwebe
If I were you, I’d demo a broad range of DACs in your system before making any judgements, either about the gear or your ability to discern differences.
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A friend of mine, fairly new to the high end world was trying to decide between the Aurrender N100 ($3.5K new) I had lent him with his Schiit Yggdrasil (~$2.5K) he owned and a Linn DSM ($12K) with both streamer and DAC. So he hooked them both up and didn’t tell me which was which and asked me what I thought.
I would say it took maybe a minute to determine which was which and characterize the differences. After another 30 seconds… it appeared to be night and day between the two. I had him take my place, playing jazz, Blue Train. I explained… listen to the cymbals… hear that tssssss… that is distortion and high frequency trash… the Linn sounds like brass. Now listen to the sax… hear the richness and nuances as notes change… then listen to the drums… clearly located behind and natural sounding. I five minutes, he completely followed what I had said.
We also were able to use the Aurrender streamer with only the Linn DAC… this is where the difference was… it was virtually all the DAC.
He is driving back from the dealer with a brand new Linn in his trunk as I type this.
Most anyone can tell these differences… but it takes experience or a guide. Once you hear the differences it is hard not to. I know that my friend will be enjoying this Linn DSM for many years. He has it paired with an Audio Research LS28SE and VT80.
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Dacs can be pretty profound ,especially if it is say a $1k dac vs a $5k dac
nigh5 and day better in every way.
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To me the DAC is the signature component of a digital system and easy to hear the differences. Just had a guy bring over a PA Audio Directstream MK2 DAC to compare with my Chord Dave. Both are FPGA but from different continents. Differences were obvious.
You may have to listen a few minutes using songs you are very familiar with. If you stil can't tell the difference, you may need to work on the rest of your system. Make sure you use good cables, but even bad cables should reveal differnces.
Jerry
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i agree, learning to hear differences and assessing sonic qualities is a learned skill, moreso for some than others, but true for all
for some top tier dacs, their sounds can be very very similar -- couple examples in my travels...
i had the bricasti m1 mdx, and the weiss 501 side by side for a month, a-b-ing back and forth, each using their own streaming front ends, both very highly respected and prized dacs... as much as i tried and tried, i simply could not reliably tell the difference ... so in the end i kept one and sold the other based on non-sonic considerations
otoh... i compared a topping d90 mqa to a chord qutest... listening to a single song, i could tell the chord was significantly better... clearer, more musical, more extended, less mechanical in presentation
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I find it hard to tell the difference between DACs. I took this test and couldn't tell between a 90dB SINAD and 120dB. That was a super cheap trashy one vs a SOTA performing one. Some DACs add coloring of their own, and I don't think it should do that. I prefer my color to come from my choice of speaker.
So, I got a cheap DAC but it has killer features such as balanced outputs and DSD Direct bypass. Transparent beyond audibility with a 117dB SINAD. I have no complaints with the thing and DSD Direct mode sounds wondrous. So much juicy detail yet smooth and warm, this is the sound of analogue master tape. My digital side has never sounded this good, sounds like my turntable minus surface noise, achieved at like 1/30th the budget.
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It is quite easy to discern the differences between DAC's. Even moderate priced DAC by Schiit easily show how moving up the product line affects sound quality.
It would be easiest if you had the DAC's side by side, but once you have listened to one DAC for a while, you will note the differences easily. All this is subject to how resolving your system is.
B
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Jusy my observations and your I’m sure YMMV.
Only the listener can determine if the difference they hear is huge or not - it’s all in their perspective. You can only go by your ears tell you and really, nothing else matters.
Reviewers on the internet are going for clicks. Kinda hard to get them if all they say is "Meh, I can tell a little bit of difference but not much"
I believe many people embellish their findings to insure they stay with the in-crowd. Especially if a lot of coin has been dropped to get their DAC - No one wants to look like a fool.
There are many DACs that can be grouped together as sounding very much the same. There ARE DACs that definitely stand out!
Listener’s seems to love arguing (discussing?) while comparing apple to oranges to peaches to pears. Everything is just so system dependent when you’re dealing with audio.
The higher sound quality of your system, the more you’ll be able to hear the difference in DACs
I’ve improved my system over the years and in doing so I’m better able to discern differences in components. Many time the improvements are small but noticeable, other times it hits you like a frying pan in the face.
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Learning the nuances of sound can be a lifetime endeavor. To jumpstart it is helpful to listen to vastly different sounding systems and acoustic instruments and concerts. The former to expose you to differences, the latter to calibrate you to what the real thing sounds like. Personally my favorite is the symphony. I’ve had season tickets to the symphony for ten years. Often I will listen to the ambience… the sound of the venue before music, then the individual instruments, the attack when a bow hits the strings. Then in smaller venues the pitch and tonal balance of a sax for instance. Pianoes are great.
Then to other systems. Go to high end stores and ask to audition some of their systems. Be honest in that you are interested in high end audio and are trying to get your feet on the ground about the sound that appeals to you. Go when it is not likely other folks will be there. Maybe take Wednesday off and go in. Maybe call in advance. Find a dealer (person) you really click with. They will be ecstatic to be your guide. This is the kind of person and relationship you will want to build. Good high end dealers know that building a relationship now will result in sales later. Sometimes a lot later. I have had relationships with dealers for 20 years.
Oh yes, one other thing. Try and listen to the music… not the component. It is important to listen quickly when you swap to detect major differences… but you want to let your subconscious soak up the sound… real important differences in musicality come out this way.
Also, if you are going to compare DACs… start by comparing vastly different priced ones… not similar. Try auditioning a $1K and $20K DAC. You want the differences to really stand out so you can become familiar with the kinds of things that are different.
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