I'm interested in hearing from or about music lovers who have dropped out of the audio "hobby." I don't mean you were content with your system for 6 weeks. I mean, you stood pat for a long time, or--even better--you downsized...maybe got rid of your separates and got an integrated.
(I suppose if you did this, you probably aren't reading these forums any more.)
If this sounds like a cry for help, well, I dunno. Not really. I'm just curious. My thoughts have been running to things like integrated amps and small equipment racks and whatnot even as I continue to experiment and upgrade with vigor (I'm taking the room correction plunge, for example.) Just want to hear what people have to say on the subject.
It would be a great service to me if I would have two systems. Onr for building stuff and experimentation, and the other a 'regular' but decent system not to mess with, but to enjoy music.
Most of my system I have built, and there are times that it sounds beyond what I thought it could. Then a demon enters, or I build yet another amp or speakers, etc. and the start of trouble begins. So, my merry go round is about me liking to build (most of the time) and ending up with anything fantastic to it's got a problem.
The disease for me is relentlessly building what I may not even need. Perhaps the cure is to go back to building furniture.
Being dissatisfied is not a good place to end up more than once.
For me getting off merry go round is having enough experience to paint decent broad strokes as to what you feel you would want.
Simple things like box counts, aesthetics, matching brands of cables can also play a role into some decisions.
I got into this thinking it was always about SQ and SQ only but sometimes the smaller things that you felt you would not care about comes up in reality.
Example, I prefer to have as little box counts as possible, so if there is a box in my chain, it yielded enough importance to me.
At the end of the day everyone will be different since getting off the merry go round also means that one has to be appreciative and thankful for what they go and at at PEACE with it.
It is human nature to always want the newest shiny toy.
The problem is,you can’t get off the mgr until you’ve gone around enough times to know what sound will make you happy for the long run.. For myself,I’m closer now to end game than ever before but had to move AWAY from an integrated to separates.My gear is now based on all in one,pure Class A Pre/Headphone amp/DAC into a pure Class A amplifier..These are hot biased Class A,none of this sudo class a sliding bias garbage(fancy names for Class AB operation) & since the front end comes from the headphone market(who IMO are THE driving force for better /less costly it is 1/2 size of a normal & the amp was from Sugdens Bijou system,also 1/2 size normal so the 2 pieces barely take up the space of a single full size component.. PS:I LIVE by this:Accept what is,appreciate what you have & be grateful for it & lastly GIVE UP ALL ILLUSIONS OF PERFECTION...
Mapman, I have come to the conclusion that I too, am a dual system person. My struggle between my love of tube gear and B&W speakers has caused my OCD to go into overdrive.
Just today, I bought a SS Plinius Hautago amp (200 watts) suitable for driving B&Ws properly and am now in a search for some tube friendly speakers for my PrimaLuna amp. My wife is so understanding of my sickness and knows that I will never get off the MGR.
I'm a dual system guy. One system gets locked in for reference. The other I get to play with to see what else might be possible. As time and money permits of course...
All I know is that in the last five years, I have achieved more realism than I ever thought possible. But you are right as I'm about to try a new rack and will soon get a music server capable of play quad DSD.
04-23-15: Cdc Sure, the merry-go-round goes in circles with no end. We need an "audiophile highway" with a destination.
There is no destination, an audiophile never finds the end of the highway. It goes on until one loses interest in audio for other reasons (health, wealth, death). A true audiophile is never done experiementing, so the journey continues even when one finds sonic bliss, as the possibility of improving upon "amazing" to "more amazing" will always exist. It is this assumption that drives the glossy rag business.
Sure, the merry-go-round goes in circles with no end. We need an "audiophile highway" with a destination. How do you know you've gotten there when you don't know where you are going? HHhhhhmmmmmm;)
Drubin, I got off the mgr by going VAC integrated and decoupling the word, "new," from "better," or magic." Usually, "new" is "a little different," and rarely better. It's true that integrateds tend to defuse the "weakest link" obsession, and with VAC I have a sense of a great musical instrument, and my upgrade path is to A/B what I have with the next VAC integrated. Of course I had to love the VAC sound as a prerequisite.
Another twist is to go "classic," and choose the items that have earned a consensus of "great," which also defuses the marketing hype of "new" that gets to feeling like Lucy and the football.
Thank goodness I never got off as the last four years have seen me achieve what I thought was impossible, namely realism.
Of course, your components have to have the potential in them, but it is other elements that have allowed the breakthrough. In the order of my getting them these have been: the Tripoint Troy, which I reviewed long ago, but the Troy Signature and especially with their Thor SE grounding cables; three generations of High Fidelity Cables and especially their power cords; both the Stillpoints Ultra series, and then the Star Sound Audio Points and their Apprentice platform; and the Zilplex room treatments.
While taken together these all represent about 55% of the cost of my system. But what they have done, I think, exceeds anything I could have done buying more expensive components.
I should also say, however, that the Koda K-10 preamp has contributed to this excellence.
03-24-15: Drubin My neurosis is all about creating a legacy. Since this thread I started almost 15 years ago is still going, I believe it's time to declare victory. Though I'm still not off the MGR. :-)
Drubin, I entered this thread the day after you started it. I don't know that it is about creating a legacy for me, more of an OCD thing I think. I am also still on the MGR. ;^)
Phd, perhaps the reason you are more sensitive to audio related negative comments is because it hits closer to home for you. Also, you tend to be in that environment more, as stated in your example. I'm sure those addicted to cars, boats, watches, etc., also get the same feelings about their hobby/spending, but they are in jewelry stores, boat shows, etc., and not in audio showrooms.
Drubin, I think you have earned a victory with this thread and it's quite possible others who have participated here must feel some sense of victory as well.
I can give an example of why I feel my above comment might hold some truth. A friend and myself go into a local HIFI shop. He spends only two hundred dollars on a used Hafler amp and I have spent a great deal more money on an another piece a gear. The owner tells him that he is very smart because there are not too many people that are sensible when it comes to spending on audio. Basically it was just another way of calling me stupid. I suppose there is some criticism on other hobbies but I'm not hearing it.
You're suggesting a critical judgment of audiophiles but not of other hobbies. I doubt that's true. Obviously some audiophiles feel it's constructive and others see issues with it, such that they might frame it as being on a Merry-Go-Round. I'm sure the same is true for other hobbies, don't you think?
I've always believed that hobbies and how we engage in them are partly an outlet for, or an expression of, our neuroses: pursuit of perfection, defense of one's decisions as the best possible choice, etc etc. You see all sorts of patterns play out here constantly. I'm sure this is true for golf, racing...you name it.
My neurosis is all about creating a legacy. Since this thread I started almost 15 years ago is still going, I believe it's time to declare victory. Though I'm still not off the MGR. :-)
By participating on this thread you already have admitted that the audio merry-go-round does exist for many however as mentioned above many do enjoy the ride. Why is it that Audiophiles are on a Merry-go-round while other people involved in other hobbies are just indulging in their interests and doing something constructive?
Since even the few remaining dealers will soon be gone, most audio paper magazines will also be gone, and electronic magazines will be available for all perspectives and will disagree on everything, and everything will be no better than MP3, and finally most will want music 24/7, all you really need to do is wait.
Furthermore since only the top 1 percent will have discretionary income, you might as well get off the merry-go-round. High end audio will be like yachts. How many of your contemporaries have musical systems in their living rooms now? It used to be well over half of mine did. Now I see maybe one out of ten older friends have any and they are old ARs and receivers with lamp cords to the speakers.
I realize this a very old thread. However, since I'm probably older than most of you, I thought I'd contribute. :)
I select gear that is the best I can afford and keep it for a long time. That is hardly to say I've spent huge amounts of money on equipment. My all tube electronics are excellent vintage MFA, which I've had upgraded as my budget permits.
Once I've experimented tweaking my system, particularly speaker placement, I concentrate on the music, not the equipment.
Once I've gotten my system dialed in, I listen, not to the gear, but to the music.
MUSIC.
After all, isn't that what this hobby is all about?
Life itself is a merry-go-round. IMO, the best we can do is find one we love and stick to it, giving it meaning and value. For me this applies to work and as well as other endeavors.
Schubert, in my case, being retired, quality reproduction of classic performances no longer relax me at the end of the day, but as long as I can hear and am alive, I will still occasionally shout "bravo" at the end of some cuts.
My dad needed music and evidently passed on the genes.
Think of it like quicksand. The more you struggle, the more you sink.
A person will gradually begin to sink in quicksand, and movement will make the victim sink faster.
and it is not easy to get out once you fall in:
The force needed for someone to pull their foot out of quicksand at a speed of a centimeter a second would be the equivalent of that required to lift a medium-size car. So don't ask your friends to tug on you; they're likely to pull you into two pieces if they try hard to pull you out.
So how do you get out of quicksand? Does this also apply to stereo on a psychic, not physical, level?
The way to do it is to wriggle your legs around. This creates a space between the legs and the quicksand through which water can flow down to dilate (loosen) the sand. You can get out using this technique, if you do it slowly and progressively.
I have had the same components for about 6 years, I occasionally upgrade phono cartridges, but most people can't really hear the subtle nuances between components anyways. I was a professional orchestral musician and can hear pretty good, but changing components as fast as you change underwear won't get you there. It's simply about the music, nothing else.
I think everyone here has a nugget of truth that we can all benefit from. I believe everyone who gets into this hobby has to be a music lover to some degree because let's face it, that's what stereo systems do-create music. But I don't have any problem with the guy who takes pride in the look and construction of his gear either. Different strokes for different folks. But to address the topic of this thread I think you can be on a merry go round in basically two different ways. 1. Time - We can and often spend way too much time in this hobby. Whether in listening, reading about, or going to shops, shows, ect. I have been guilty of this way too often. And I am not going to sit here and preach to anyone about how much is too much but everyone knows what is reasonable in their own life. Ways that I personally keep things in control in this area is to take an interest in other things in life. Maybe watch a movie, check out the History channel, or read a book a few nights a week.(trying to give practical suggestions) 2. Money- Oh how we can spend money in this hobby! Guilty again. But you know this is a free country and like most people here I worked hard to get what I have and music is what I like to enjoy when I get home. But back to the thread (and you guys have made some great points in having a goal set, ect. Some of the practical things I do (and please forgive me if any of these have been mentioned and I know most have, but as a reminder) to spend less money and still make a difference in your system are: -DIY room treatments -play around with magnets on your power cords (these have a very positive effect on RFI and EMI) but keep them off speaker wire and interconnects (has neg. effect on dynamics) -add weight to various parts of your system -if you have tubes then experiment - I have made a DIY center weight for my Thorens 124 out of brass plumbing parts for about $5. Works great. And the list goes on and on. Actually, when I want to spend less money on my system I spend more time reading on Audiogon because of the huge number of people that know more than me and can help you with your system. So if I may conclude I think you can be on a merry go round on any number of things in life but the key is to find that balance that makes you happy (and not feel like you have to get off any merry go round) as well as to make those around you feel important who are not into the hobby.
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