Help.... I'm scared to 'upgrade'!

buy the ifi elite power supply  and use a good power cord for better results....plugged into  a wall outlet [no power conditioner]

Drop $5C on a Puffin. Perfect for gearheads, it does most everything. 30 day trial to see if it:s quiet enough for you. At least it makes LPs play a lot quieter with Magic.

Parks is up there with iFi and Pro-Ject as the best values in modern HiFi.

Oran, thank you for the heads up! I had the iPhono3 for a minute last year. I know I didn't give it enough time in my system, but I felt like my tweaked Bottlehead Seduction gave me more of what I want. If the Zen Phono has a full-bodied 3 dimensional sound, I definitely want to hear it. I love the idea of a silent background. The signal to noise specs look amazing on paper. 

From their website, it looks like the Zen comes with their iPower2 adapter. You might want to consider an upgrade to iPower Elite or iPowerX. It might not make a big difference, but it's worth checking out... as chetatkins mentioned. 

Unfortunately, Amazon is out of stock with the Zen. It looks like the only place that has it in stock is in the UK.

i'd be scared too, unless you want to just spend.

if it sounds good to you it is good. And those ATCs don‘t lie..

@oranfoster Very nice gear and system!

I hate to ignore your phono preamp suggestions and be that guy who just pounds a blind drum for purposes of justifying my personal decisions but . . .

Consider a transimpedance phono stage such as VDH The Grail, BMC MCCI Signature or the Loco from Sutherland. I believe both of your MC pickups will be perfect contenders with their relatively low coil impedances.

I’ve been a fan of these designs since the Aqvox 2CI (of BMC’s Carlos Candeias) 15 years ago although I believe Ed Meitner did it much earlier on an older Musetex preamp when there were fewer cartridge options available.

@boothroyd , you forgot the Channel D Lino C which can be ordered stripped or with both MM and voltage mode MC inputs and a bunch of other stuff. It is one of the very quietest phono stages going operating on a battery power supply that charges itself after hours. 

@mijostyn Yes! That’s what I get for late night postings. 🙃

I have recommended the Channel D Lino C for friends needing XLR outputs with excellent results. It is a very full featured unit I should not have forgotten.

Those 2 nice cartridges you have (Cadenza Black, Umami Red) are electrically in the "sweet" range for a SUT (15x - 20x), so you might consider one of those partnered with an MM stage. Hum / grounding can be a pain with these, but if you do it right the SUT gives "free", relatively noiseless gain, which seems to be very important to you. The other way to combat noise floor is to move to a higher output cartridge, but I'd hate to suggest that given you've already got very nice low (but not too low) output ones. 

The other suggestion for current injection / transimpedance stages is good too. You tried a few traditional SS and tube stages and didn't like them, so your choices are: 1. Keep trying, 2. Go WAY up in quality & price point, 3. Try a different approach 

IMO, you haven’t tried a really great phono stage yet, so it’s premature to conclude that the iFi Zen is some sort of giant killer. Most testimonials from other users would suggest that it’s not. It seems to be a good to very good phono stage “for the money “ and not more than that. If you own and only plan to own low output MC cartridges with very low internal resistance (e.g., less than 10 ohms), you might really like the BMC mentioned above or some other current driven phono of high quality. There are several other choices of phono stage that should outperform anything you’ve heard in your system. The other question that arises is whether the linestage section of your Accuphase E470 is limiting your capacity to get the most out of any phono stage. Something to think about.

Good points to consider, all...

@mingles, I have indeed ordered an upgraded power supply, as well as a 4.4mm Pentaconn to XLR adapter so as to take advantage of its balanced output. It will be interesting to try to discern any changes with one, then both of those.

@chetatkins Curious, why might it be better to bypass the Bryston Isolation Transformer (BIT15) that the rest of my system is on?

@fuzztone I’m going to keep that nifty Puffin unit in mind should I ever want a digital archive of my library. Plus the azimuth readout is very cool. It’s an example of just how rich the analog world is right now.

@boothroyd A Sutherland transimpedance stage is on my short list. And @mijostyn I’ll take another look at the Channel D Lino C. I remember being impressed by a write up some time ago, maybe from Fremer’s site.

@lewm Yes, which is why the Accuphase C-47 is my aspirational piece. I haven’t found out its US list yet, I think it’s around $13,000. To get there will require some saving and selling but at the very least that little Zen Phono makes waiting fun, eh?

What do you want good sound that you are happy with or a line item in you bank account that you can look at brag about and try and convince your self that it cost this much it must sound good. This forum is famous for people who spend thousands for a piece of gear that they don’t like the sound of. Then they post and the replies come in must not have it set up right, wrong power supply, wrong interconnects, wrong amp, wrong pre amp, wrong speakers, wrong room treatments, but never you just over paid for a piece of garbage cause it was expensive it can’t be bad. I am there with my dac. Current on cost me $500 and weekly I tell myself I need to go buy one for $2000 as it has to be better than current. Then I listen to my system and really enjoy the sound and like even better seeing my bank account balance $2000 higher than it would be!

@sgreg1 , You get out on the wrong side of the bed today? 

well, this little tiny corner of the internet is a place for discussing high end gear, right? 

If sgreg thinks I am pressing for the OP to spend big bucks, that is not at all the case. The OP himself talked about a $70K Swiss unit and then about a 13.5K Accuphase. IMO you can acquire superb phono stages for much less. But on the other hand, let’s not pretend that the Zen is under-appreciated gold just BECAUSE it is cheap. The iPhono3 with an upgraded PS should kick its butt for way under $2K, and if it doesn’t I’d take a look at the linestage performance. 

I am curious about one thing here: I own both the Aria and the JC3+ and don’t hear any noise issues with either? 

I am curious about one thing here: I own both the Aria and the JC3+ and don’t hear any noise issues with either? 

It's a function of your cartridge output (lower output carts are harder) and how loud you listen. Then there's the bugaboo that even if you achieve a dead quiet noise floor from your phono stage in the seating position with volume up way high and no music playing, this floor might be completely swamped by your minimum groove noise anyways. 

The JC 3+ is an excellent phono stage designed by one of the true masters of phono stages. It was either defective or it was not set up correctly. 

Phono stages can be very difficult to evaluate. They are equalized devices and easy to design them with a pleasing sonic signature by monkeying around with the RIAA circuit.

Does the Zen have higher gain (over the others) going out to your system? Many confuse "louder" with better. I'm not saying this is the case....but in blind tests, 99.9% people will choose the slightly louder component. I would find it hard to believe that the ZEN sounds better than the Parasound. I'm not saying what you are hearing is not real, its just the JC 3+ is an ENDGAME unit for many with really high dollar systems.

@sgreg1 : You are one of the few voices of sanity on this site full of moneyphiles! Too many believe that spending more and more results in somehow "better" sound. They are all too ready to listen to the subjective views of the golden ears crowd.

@jasonbourne52

I think what separates some from the others here is quite simple. My journey is now and alway has been about the music. All to often people get sidetracked and the music takes a back seat to their new love “system”. Trouble is that system is an affair you can never satisfy or make happy. She is a very demanding one that is never content and always checking out the new contender. Music is a loyal partner that can always change and keep satisfying year in and year out. Yes their is a price point that can add or detract from the joy of music and if someone can and wants to spend $700,000 on their system or $50,000 on a dac it is not my place to criticize. IMO everyone needs to first love music and do what they feel is right to nurture that love. If the first love is “system” you will never truly love music as “system” will always want you to doubt her from only reading a review or a post. Trust your ears and love the music!

@sgreg1

Yes, we all (almost) love music here. We also all (almost) love gear too. One need not degrade the other - they can boost each other if done right. There are plenty of audio groups out there with the goal posts set towards "whomever spends the LEAST on their turntable / cables / speakers / amp / system WINS", and their expensive gear bashing tropes are incredibly repetitive and boring (like a toddler so so smug that he learned the F word). THIS is not one of those groups, which I am thankful for.

The oft used “all about the music” serves music lovers and gear heads alike. Using the phrase to support individual thresholds for spending more or spending less has little utility on audio forums.

Some might love the sound on a carefully curated $500K system. Some might tap their foot while listening to a favorite song played on a 1977 Ford Pinto AM radio.

The great thing about audio is the infinite variety of choices, combinations and price points for a lifetime of listening enjoyment…

Some good points, for sure. I certainly didn't intend to bash the Parasound JC3+. In his August 2014 review of the Parasound, Neil Gader states, "Backgrounds are still eerily quiet" when comparing it to the original JC3. I guess I interpreted that to mean actually very, even eerily, quiet. That simply wasn't the case. It really sounded fantastic but compared to the self generated noise (or the absence of) of my DAC, it was much more pronounced. I'm sure I was naive, it was my first (relatively, of course) expensive phono preamp and I didn't realize that "black backround", "eerily quiet", "silent", etc. implies that those mean ....for a phonostage. An issue for me might be the fact that at times I just can't resist listening to music loudly through my very enthusiastic ATC's which would bring that noise well into audibility. I have a ton of experience listening to noise of all sorts through my sensitive amateur radio gear and the causes and remedies of all sorts of RFI, tube rush, ground loops, etc., was part of the knowledge base required in testing for my Extra Class ticket. So I'm fairly certain that the hiss present in my system was in fact generated by the JC3+. No, it wasn't terrible. I bought it smartly used and resold it to one who reported no issues at all. I always offer to buy back anything I sell for any reason within a period of time. The Rega Aria, on the other hand, was much worse. I bought it from a local dealer, from an actual shop. The dealer  concurred that it wasn't exactly possessing inky black backrounds. 

    More generally, I have no apologies for allocating whatever funds I want in pursuit of great sound. And I really like the gear, that's why I love radio too. And that's why occasionally post here on Audiogon. This is a community for all types of music lovers and stereo lovers. @sgreg1 So please don't be too concerned with my financial priorities. 

@aberyclark I'm wondering if I give too much subjective weight to that single variable which is a component's S/N ratio. I sat down to listen to a few LP's while writing here and am still astounded at just how squeaky clean the little Zen Phono is. The Umami Red is new to my system (I lucked out on a used one which still looked new under a microscope), and if I had a JC3+ here on hand to compare my opinion could change, for sure. 

@oranfoster 

Please understand that I am not trying to be critical of your finances or do I care. I was trying to make a point that people who love music can and should enjoy it anyway they can. By any way I mean anyway and while we can offer our opinions they are only opinions and their can be a fine line between critiquing and being critical. 

For what it’s worth, I think I’ve read other comments to the effect that the JC3+ can be a tad hissy, john curl design credentials  notwithstanding. This is not an issue inherent to vinyl reproduction.

My  advice is if you like it - stick with it and skip the upgrade. I recently made a mistake purchasing a very expensive car and have found I like my 14yo car with 200k miles on it much better. So much so that I am selling the new car back to the dealer and willing to take a loss to do so. 

Moral of the story is shiny new toys are not always what they may seem to be. I had to learn this lesson the hard and expensive way. 

I don’t know, but Michael Fremer gushed over the relatively affordable Graham Slee Era Gold V....I own it and think it’s nice. For holographic, I think you are going to need a tubed phono stage. I love my Tavish classic with NOS tubes installed. I use mine with both a Jensen and a Rothwell step up transformer when running a moving coil. Yeah, maybe not the quietest thing out there, but who cares. Most vinyl, especially vintage original pressings, are not all that quiet when compared to newer reissues, but boy do they sound better...I'd have to agree with Tom Port’s take on vintage vinyl compared to new pressings, no comparison. Both the pro-ject tube box ds2 and the Ear 834p are very nice as well, both tubed. I own all the above. I’d have to agree that just throwing a lot of money at something does not always result in a better sound. Some of the components I mentioned above are incredible values for your money spent.

The Pass Labs XP-27 is extremely quiet. Expensive but also very good.

Many good suggestions and it’s why I enjoy this community. Luckily I really get great enjoyment out of my stereo as is, so it’s fun just to bide my time and check often as gear comes up for sale. My wife and I will be attending AXPONA this year and I’m really looking forward to listening to some great equipment.

I am surprised about noise issues with the Parasound JC3+.  I don't have the 3+ (wish I did), but I do use the JC 3+'s little sister the JC3 Jr.  That phonostage and the system as as a whole are so quiet that I can stick my head up inside the Oris 150 horn with a 106 dB sensitivity driver and it is very nearly inaudible..

I am surprised about noise issues with the Parasound JC3+

I may be wrong but I was under the impression the “+” update took care of any residual noise with a change from an R-Core transformer to a toroidal type?

A little bird 😉 told me the original version could achieve much improved S/N by raising the R-Core ~ 1/2” in the chassis as it seemed the interaction with the PSU for the right channel was at fault.

Now you guys mention it, and in the absence of rock solid evidence to the contrary, it may well be the case that the complaints about noise (hiss, as I recall, not hum) pertain to the JC3, and yes I do recall that the 3+ exists in part to reduce the noise. I am surprised that substituting a toroidal transformer helped to cure the problem, as toroidals do radiate.

Did I miss what your PLC is? Mine is a Core Power 1800. They also make a Deep Core to use separately, or in tandem. One audio guy sold his 1800 after adding the Deep Core. That could be be the solution for you

hth

@tweak1 I've got most of my system plugged into a Bryston BIT 15, which is essentially a large Piltron isolation transformer with surge protection and some additional RFI filtering. It has seemed to have helped; my home's AC does have issues. 

A little update is that I've added a cable to take advantage of the Zen Phono's balanced out, and that in conjunction with an upgraded power supply really confirms that, at least in terms of noise, that little unit can really hold it's own against preamps in much more rarefied levels.

Fremer's review stated: "The compact Zen offers a gain range of 36dB to 72dB with a claimed astonishingly low -151dBv noise floor, a useful switchable subsonic filter and a balanced output, something unheard of at this price point."

So yeah, THAT's a quiet unit. The first question though is how does it sound?  Also, I looked at a photo of the rear of the unit, and I see only ONE balanced output jack.  Do you need two Zens for balanced operation? (That would not be unprecedented; the Einstein phono stage offered that option for balanced mode.)  If the noise floor is -151dBv, I hardly think balanced mode would make an audible difference in terms of noise, because at that very very low level inevitably noise from something else in the system would dominate.

 I have owned Bryston amps and pre-amps , there were SO quite they seemed dead.!

I got rid of them after a year and and I'm a fan of Canada.

A "-151dB dbv noise floor" spec seems highly misleading, if not an outright lie. What level is the reference "signal" at, by comparison? Signal-to-noise ratio is the number that matters for phono applications, since you have a downstream volume control (your line preamp) to re-level the signal as needed. Since their own page even lists the "MC v lo", "MC lo" and "MC hi" gains in clearly reversed order (error), I’m not confident on the veracity of that eye popping noise floor spec.

I guess the single balanced output could be a TRRS (tip ring ring sleeve) connector, which is popular with the portable head-fi crowd, but seems like a terrible misapplication for a PHONO STAGE.

EDIT: OK, they do list out the Signal-Noise ratio specs for the iFi Zen phono, which look reasonable. That -151dB number is for "Equivalent Input Noise", which I guess means the residual noise floor on output side matches what a *perfect* amplifier of the same gain would yield on its outputs when fed a noise signal of -151dBv at the inputs. That’s a dumb spec lol. Signal-To-Noise ratio is what you want to compare with.

@jim5559 The Bryston BIT 15 is the only Bryston component I have experience with; but I don't usually consider a "quiet" component "dead". I have heard that they can be analytic. 

@lewm The balanced output is through a 4.4 mm Pentaconn connector which indeed does have four contacts. I always assume that those connections to be somewhat fragile so I definitely will NOT be unplugging and plugging it back in often. Yes, It would be difficult to know how much less distortion or noise there is but theoretically there is less and for the modest price of the cable (and the fact that my Accuphase E-470 has true balanced inputs) it was a no brainer.

@mulveling With such a small amount of real-estate on the back of this diminutive unit, traditional XLR connectors would be a bit large. Why is the 4.4 mm Pentaconn connector a misapplication? 

All ears are not the Same . that’s all one needs .

I'd never heard of that 2 in 1 type of connector for balanced output.  But then again, I have never owned headphones or any miniaturized audio components. So thanks for that.

@lewm , it appears to me that the unit is using XLRs for the power cord. It has RCAs for input and output.

I wish people would stop combining music loving and audiophilia. I know plenty of music lovers who are not audiophiles and actually vice versa. The are audiophiles that play crappy music just because it sounds good and will only buy recordings that sound good. I think it is safe to say that most audiophiles love music. Many of us start out as teenagers with limited funds and as we get older and have more expendable income evolve our systems. It becomes a life long endeavor. What is wrong with that? Some of us have more money and can spend more. SO WHAT! This does not mean they wind up with better systems. Anyone can spend money. The art is making a SOTA system on a budget or getting the most out of what you have to spend. This has nothing to do with the music. A real music lover will listen to a bad recording because it is a great performance.   

Nope. The Zen does have a single output jack for balanced stereo. See the above posts ands see photos on the iFi website. It’s on the left at the rear. On the right you see the PS input. All specs say it is capable of a true balanced output.
Nice pun on SOTA. Those who don’t or won’t own a SOTA can also have atop drawer system. 

I upgraded from the iFi Zen to the Darlington Labs MP-7 for a modest price increase and it really delivered, most notably in a tighter and deeper bass.  You're not going to have the gain settings flexibility that the Zen provides, but just get a quality SUT for your Hana Umami or the DL's active step up coming out shortly and you'll happy with the upgrade.

There are a number of great phono stages available that are incredible. I have stayed with Audio Research for over 35 years. The PH 8 or 9 are world class and I think incredibly cost effective. I now own a Audio Research Reference 3… an amazing phono stage. phono stages are so important. If I were you I would look at Audio Research, and Zesto. World class phono stages like these are not going to be disappointing or of any risk. You can confidently buy used.

@djspinner I just spent some time at the website of Darlington Labs and am really impressed by what I've read. That one can choose NOT to get a unit without a blindingly bright blue LED would be much appreciated by me, for sure.

@ghdprentice Yes, for sure. I had a nice conversation with George Counnas at an audio show once and am an admirer of the brand. I always "click" on ads for anything Zesto. One of these days, maybe..... Same for Audio Research. 

@lewm , I was looking at the wrong phono stage. I was not making a reference to the turntable at all. That is now Sota, not SOTA. You made the reference! There are several great turntables like the SMEs, Avids, Basis, and Dohmanns. The Sota is just the best value. 

@oranfoster

Sorry, I was being hyperbolic about the pentaconn input (also I incorrectly said TRRS when it's TRRRS). It was just surprising to see it in a phono stage, where portability is not a concern - though I suppose compact form factor still has advantages for close placement to a turntable.

It has advantages when you have to fit 4 RCA jacks, a ground lug, a PS input, and some switches for loading, along with a stereo balanced output, in very limited real estate.

Dear  @oranfoster  :  this modest phono stage could be interesting for you to listening it and at least even your need of really low noise. If you can try to listening it before you decide to go for the expensive and very good phono stages out there:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/ps-audio-stellar-phono-phono-preamplifier

In the other side of the phono stage market you can't go wrong with this high quality design in the same way you can't go wrong with the FM 122MK2 and NO these ones are not 7-10 times better than the low priced units named here and that you own. There is no linear relationship between price level and quality performance, to many reasons for it:

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.