Has anyone used the new Innuos 2.0 Sense music app? Compared it to Roon?

After listening more this morning the sound quality is actually significantly better with the new Innuos app. I am a huge Roon fan Agoners, so this is not something that is easy for me to say. The Roon interface is still far superior and I miss the Radio function of Roon immensely . However, on sound quality alone Innuos has something very special here. More work is needed on the feature offerings. 
This app is free for Innuos owners as an FYI.

@grannyring — I think you should definitely bring this shortcoming to Innuos’s attention as I doubt it’s a tough feature for them to add. 

I did, no answer as yet.  This feature is so important to me that it is a must have now! 

Great.  At least I didn’t buy the lifetime Roon subscription a few months ago.  Oh wait, never mind. 

@grannyring, were you running Roon core on your Zenith? Was there anything you did prior to updating to 2.0 (backup, reindex)? Did it go smoothly? I’m going to be be taking the plunge soon...also, how does the Sense interface compare with Roon? I would appreciate any insights you can provide, thanks!

@grannyring  --- does the new Innuos 2.0 Sense work with Innuos as a server only, or server + streamer, when connected directly to DAC via USB? Sorry, I no longer have any Innuos to try.

In other words, would it work with a separate DAC that has a network bridge built in, with no direct connection to Innuos? As a Roon user, you perhaps know what I mean. Thank you

I gave up on Roon and was using iPeng because Roon just sounds bad.  So I am a happy camper as Sense is way way better than iPeng as a control app.

But more that that, Sense also sounds way better than iPeng.  I would easily equate the noise reduction of Sense to more than several thousand dollars and its free!!!

I just discovered off-line mode today, the benefit was at first subtle to me but now I recognize it and the effect is huge.  It just killed a barely perceptible  high frequency background layer in the music.

I won't go so far as to say it sounds analog but I think for the first time my systems sound leans more to analog than digital.  Its just dreamy and relaxing. 

With Roon it always had that digital edge.  Anyone using Experimental mode knows what effect Roon has.  iPeng was better than Experimental mode and Sense is better than iPeng and off-line mode takes Sense to another level.

I ran Roon Core on my Innuos when using Roon.  I also used the better sounding experimental Squeezelite setting for the best sound possible out of Roon. 
The new 2.0 Sense is just much better sounding than Roon. Easily 30-50% better sounding. It’s like I am hearing my Zenith for the first time. Roon sounds harsh and rough compared to the Innuos software. 

Using “offline” mode in Sense disables the use of any streaming services so it can only be used when playing ripped CDs.   

Thyname, not sure I can answer your question? You need to have an a Innuos unit to use the new Sense software.  

Thyname, this may answer your question.

”At present the 2.0 software and Sense app will only control what an Innuos emits from its USB output but there are plans to allow it to control external streamers in the future, which would make it a genuine competitor for Roon as this is the only app that can control both servers and streamers to our knowledge. For Innuos owners who don’t use a separate streamer, Sense and the software behind it represent a significant upgrade on what went before and almost the best bit is that it’s free, which given the man hours that must have gone into its creation is very generous indeed.”

Innuos owners have not heard how good their Innuos units sound if using Roon in the past. This is just the simple fact.  I liked Roon and was ignorant of how much it was holding back the sound quality of my system. This Innuos Sense software is a great big deal! 
anzaan…is spot on with his comments.  

Hi @grannyring --- thank you for your posts. You answered my questions. Enjoy!

anzaanimalclinic

You are so right about listening to ripped or stored music with Sense in the offline mode! Wow……Best my digital library has ever sounded by a mile! 

I won't be able to upgrade to Innuos 2.0 until the end of the month on my Zen Mk ii which I only use as a server. I have been using Orangesqueeze on my Android phone to control playback. If you will, please explain how the offline mode works and how Innuos Sense finds the Zen as server if it is not connected to the network.

Just updated to 2.0.4. and the new Sense app. Aside from a small glitch getting Tidal reconnected it was a breeze. Listened to a couple of tracks and it sounds pretty great! Nice looking interface with a volume control...can't wait to dig in deeper tonight. Big win for Innuos and the Innuos user community.

I have not been this thrilled with my sound system since I purchased my first one as a skinny high school basketball player 🤓

I am beside myself. The dac is important……sure, but the darn software used, in this case, is the biggest SQ improvement I have heard in my system in 20 years. I cannot thank Innuos enough. 
I will try and contain myself fellow Agoners.

Been using Roon with my Zenith Mk3 for six months.

Having switched to Sense 3 days ago, I agree with comments by Grannyring  and the hifi veterinarian:  Sense is Sensational.  It is a huge deal.  I too am beside myself.  Grinning and shaking my head in utter disbelief.

Gone is a quantity of digital glare, noise or whatever that is hard to come to grips with.  Innuos Sense has put the SQ of my system into a different league.  Maybe there is more improvement to be had with things such as ENO but this improvement has caught me by surprise.  So…it turns out that as good as I thought my integrated, Zenith and speakers sounded.  I had no clue as to their true capability.  Now I have a much better sense of it.  Ohhh, that pun was not intended.  Lol.

Anzaanimal, earlier today I was talking about how much this amount of  SQ improvement would cost.  Several thousands for sure.  A person I know who moved from Zen mk3 to Zenith Mk3 said the bump in SQ provided by Sense is WAY WAY bigger.

Anza…..”relaxing and dreamy” nails it.  

In the last 6 weeks I’ve added a Puritain 156 and now Sense.  An embarrassment of riches…..Sonically.  The Puritan provides so much improvement at a price that makes it a terrific value.  And Sense is free but delivers like it costs a king’s ransom.  

I thanked my dealer, the Innuos team and am so glad I chose this unit. 

My recent DAC upgrade was transformational and it continues to evolve so quantifying the SQ change from Roon to Sense is difficult to gauge. I will say that the music my system is making right now is intoxicating to point where I find it difficult to walk away. Evening listening sessions are going later in the night and in some cases into the next day. On the downside the Sense UI looks Roonish but it isn't there yet. I subscribe to Tidal and so streamed content and my ripped library is not integrated yet. There is also less in the way of reviews and liner note type meta data but Innuos says they are working on it. Right now it feels like Christmas in July.

Interesting feedback from Innuos users. I am not here to poop on Roon but in reading forums, the general consensus is to turn off any DSP settings that tempers or tweaking the incoming data. The 1.8 version appears to have taken a step back in SQ contrary to what Roon’s claim of highest quality sound.

“For those who hear a deterioration in SQ with 1.8 - consider changing to a topology that separates the Output from the Core. Any change in SQ between versions of Roon is probably due to the computing load on the Core. Using a network device such as a Roon Ready endpoint or a network adaptor running Roon Bridge will provide some isolation from the Core.”

Being new to Roon so I am still comparing Roon Core with my trusty aurender which has a simple but fabulous iOS app. Roon was a $3K option for me so the comparison is being made with a $3500 ACS100. For kicks, I am also bringing in W20SE before I settle with my choice of player.

PS: A wise person once told me to never tell a room full of audiophiles what sounds best 😉

@lalitk, I can attest to the fact that turning on DSP caused a negative outcome when running the core on my Zenith. My journey was from Bluesound to Innuos running Roon so overall I there was an uptick in SQ but the big attraction for me was the Roon UI. I have been a user for just under a year and a half and really got to like the interface and the way that it managed the content I like to listen to, but more than that, I just love the connectivity Roon exposes between artist. There's a lot of capability to mine out details and discover new artists and music which has been nothing short of fantastic.

I was using a Schiit Eitr with good results before converting to USB after adding a 10m clock to my Antelope Zodiac Platinum. On SP/DIF you are limited to 24/192 with no DSD and don‘t have the benefit from slaving the server to the dac under the asynchronous USB protocol. This is why Innuos opted for USB or Ethernet only.

i updated the zenith and last week to sense 2.0.4.
all the best.
the sound is overwhelming.
but: recognizing my NAS library is a problem.
while scanning it recognized around 9,000 albums.
but that is "only" 0.04 percent of my audio collection.
a further scan is no longer possible.
with the "rescan" function it always breaks off after a few seconds.
i.e. most of my collection is not recognized.
in the meantime i know that i'm not the only one who has problems with recognizing larger file volumes.
rhe support, to whom I wrote mails, does not answer.
i'm in germany and innuos has a support phone number. but this phone number cannot be reached. it is always in the busy mode.
the whole thing is incredible.

If 9,000 albums represents 0.04% of your audio collection, you have a total of 22,500,000 albums??!!! Are you sure. Over twenty million albums?? Wow! I find this impossible

@jakikak do you mean 9000 songs?

Still.... you have 2,250,000 music albums? that's two and quarter million albums

i think i should go to elementary school again !!!
in fact more than 300,000 cds and only 9,000 recognized cds
that actually makes 4 percent of the total stock.

the problem is not the amount, because others also report problems with much much smaller NAS volumes.

The Innuos Sense is very nice. They have done a great job with this app. It still has some more room for improvemnet, but I am sure in time it might even surpass Roon. I really missed the functionality of Roon though, so I only used the Sense app for about a week. I figure I will give Innuos's  some more time to catch up with Roon'e features and also add Tidal. 

I did not notice a big difference is sound quality though myself. I also did not feel I was missing anything when when I switched back to Roon. It is summertime , so not really doing a lot of critical listening at this time ,so I might have a different opinion later on.

@grannyring,

I downloaded the new firmware and app yesterday to my Zen Mk 3 and I have to agree with everything you say, especially in offline mode.
Cheers!

I downloaded 2.0.4 yesterday Zen MK 3 and must say I am impressed. I was using Roon and liked it, but the SQ of InnuOS 2 is definitely better. The interface is not quite as good as Roon but darn close, and considering the SQ improvement and that InnuOS is free I’m pretty sure I’ll be canceling my Roon subscription. I have not tried offline mode yet.
A couple of things I do not like with InnuOS so far:
1. No Roon Radio, so when my “Now Playing” is exhausted the music stops (and I don’t get exposed to new music). 2. There is no way to change the default when a song is pressed...In Roon I set the default to add that song to the bottom of the Now Playing queue. InnuOS default is to wipe out whatever is in Now Playing, play the song that was pressed, and add the rest of that album to the Now Playing queue. Not a huge deal when I am controlling but when someone less familiar has the controller it’s inevitable that they will press on a song (first hand experience with Roon during get togethers with a bunch of people over).

nuno, the developer of innuos wrote me in an email that the new interface sense 2.0.4 "ONLY" provides ONE path to a nas.
so no second path outside of the innuos hard drive.
so also not a second path to my pc e.g.
this means a very big limitation for everyone who tries to collect a larger collection, which do not fit on the innous hard drive at all and may not fit on a nas system, cannot be operated ???? !!!!!!!
this is bad news and actually not logical.

Count me in the camp that noticed an immediate improvement in sound quality using Sense instead of Roon with my Innuos Statement.  Can it be as simple as the fact that the music now streams directly into the server instead of making a detour into the Roon core before reaching the server?  We had been using Roon nucleus as the server.   I agree with other posts that something akin to Roon radio would be nice, but I think it’s a great App overall in terms of user friendliness, and bottom line, you have to go with the better sound.  Very happy I invested in The Statement.

At first I thought it was better, but after having many issues with the app and even the web controller I decided to switch back to Roon. I think the Innuos app is EQ’d kind of like MQA files. I’m listening to a Zenith mkIII through Chord Qutest, PrimaLuna EVO 400 to Sonus Faber Sonetto VIII’s and I’m playing a high Rez flac file saved on the internal drive. On Norah Jones album Pick me up off the floor, on the last track, heaven above, she just sounds more natural and the piano in the left rear just has more presence and focus. On the Innuos app she sounds nasally and raspy. 

I checked my Zen Mini Mk3 this morning and the new software must not be available for it as yet.  Says up to date at V1.4.9 and I downloaded Innuos Sense to my iphone and it did not find my Zen Mini.  Ugh, anyone know the timing for the Zen Mini?

@tinear123 It looks like Zen Mini will be beginning of August. You can follow updates on their website https://innuos.com/2021/07/16/weekly-update-16-07-21/

Just saw the weekly update for Jul-23 and the ZenMini support will be held off for 2.0.5 on Aug-03.  I can easily wait a couple more weeks before giving roon the boot.

This is an interesting discussion. Not surprised that running Innuos' native software on an Innuos server would lead to better sound quality than when running third party software.

Does anyone have experience comparing an Innous server running Innuous software vs a Roon-optimized server (i.e. Nucleus) running Roon?

I do.  The Innuos Zen and Zenith with Sense 2.04 is on another level regarding SQ.  Just so much better.  Really not close.  Real sounding vs. digital artifacts and electronic sounding. Yes, my last statement is relative to the better a Innuos. I owned the Nucleus and used Roon.  

If Innuos Sense sounds nasal and raspy, then something else is wrong with your front end or settings.  

This is great news for Innuos users, competition is great, especially for roon. I would like to try a Innuos setup (no real easy way) as well as euphony, which I think is possible as they have a trial image you can put on a stick and boot to it.

https://darko.audio/2021/07/a-very-short-film-about-innuos-2-0/

I am curious for some of the Innuos users experienced with roon regarding what @lalitk pointed out about roon setup. Being a lifetime roon user I have a dedicated linux PC running only core and then use HQP on a dedicated high end wkst (upsampling to DSD) sending music to an NAA (opticalRendu) via optical ethernet.
Separating core is actually pretty significant for how roon operates its ecosystem and is why they highly recommend this. But I digress

With the what sounds like a great uptick in SQ with the 2.0 and sense, has anyone had a roon + HQP setup to compare? Not really apples to apples but in so far as SQ in general.

Proprietary software is my issue, I have to purchase Innuous and stick with it?

I do agree that music player software has differing sound qualities. When switching to Roon from Audirvana I was somewhat disappointed, still, I love Roon interface. And yes, I do agree that running Roon dsp not good.

There's a pattern here. I have a lifetime Roon license. But from a sheer SQ and lack of bugs, in the Auralic world Lightning DS also clearly sounds better than Roon. It lacks metadata editing capabilities so Roon and Windows file management can still help there. But streamer-specific software seems to perform to a higher standard of musical fidelity than jack-of-all Roon.

Phil

I’ve been a Zenith 3 owner since last December. Chord Hugo TT2 DAC into Naim amplification and Zu speakers. There’s an impedance mismatch between the Naim and the Zu which results in erratic bass and mids. Eventually I figured the amps would go to be replaced by something like a Decware. Have had to make various compromises starting with a cheap wireless bridge rather than 40m worth of Cat5/6 but have loved it. It just works. All Innuos products are s model of “just works”. 
Tried Roon in experimental mode. It was okay but nothing special. Can’t say I’d rave shout the interface. It always struck me as an interim solution filling a gap in the market until manufacturers skilled up and did what Innuos have just done. Spent some time being ridiculed for suggesting that Innuos interface alone had the potential to be one of a series of manufacturer moves which would eventually shrink Roon to even more if a niche novelty than it is at present.

Sense and 2.05 come with the issues you’d expect of all such big moves but overall it’s closer to magnificent than a mess and the engagement with end users over our priorities is refreshing. 
What I absolutely didn’t expect was the leap in sound quality. If characterise it as a significant drop in the noise floor across the board. Bass is suddenly there and more consistent; mids are lovely whilst highs are detailed, precise/crystal clear and yet never harsh. Haven’t listened to so much music in my life. Full Tidal integration is coming. I can’t “benefit” from MQA/Masters because if the Chord DAC but the 16 year old is more than happy with CD quality Tidal and me and Mrs. H. are more than happy with the full Qobuz integration. 

Just updated my Zen-Mini-Mk3 (with LPS) today to 2.0.5 and wow!  On my system it absolutely kills roon from a sound perspective.  As others have stated, ultra low noise floor, vastly improved base and more delicate top end.  From an interface standpoint I really like it and did not use much of the discovery stuff from roon.  Once the Tidal search functionality is added it will be perfect for me.

I’m an old(er) jaded audiophile and ex IT person. I know a good bit about computers from a practical sense as a power user. Honestly I did not hear much of an improvement moving from a stripped down Win 10 laptop to the Zen mk3 that I bought in April of this year. I bought the Zen because it just seemed to be a nice unit and I wanted to try a dedicated machine. I ran roon core on the Zen until a few weeks ago when I upgraded to the to the latest Innuos Sense app.

I hear a significant positive difference since I moved from innuos 1.49 to 2.05.  I mean it's not like "I think I hear a difference" it's more like wow - that sounds fantastic.  I don’t know Innuos secret sauce but whatever they are doing is a game changer.

Absolutely! Enjoy……

Nice, everyone has me excited for the v2.0 update!

I just got my Zenith yesterday and am loving it as is, big improvement from my laptop/tablet, but weird thing is when I powered it up and did the system update it only brought the software up to v1.49. Right now I’m running everything through Orange Squeeze and not using Room. I was gonna do the v2.0 update this morning, but want to do a little more listening to compare the change over with the update.

My current set up is Zenith -> (USB) Gustard X26 Pro DAC -> (XLR) Azur 851a iAmp-> 851w pAmp -> Kef LS50 Meta’s with Kef Kube 12b.

The Zenith has done wonders already, but on a side not has anyone read or heard anything about utilizing a D2D converter before your DAC? On the PS forums people are raving about the Matrix Audio X SPDIF 2 coupled with a 9v LSP.

Anyone give it a shot yet and hear any big difference?

I like the idea of being able to run I2S from the Matrix to my DAC to optimize all things digital before the hit my speakers.

I did order the Matrix and LSP and will try it out myself once they arrive, but gonna be making quite a few changes here and will report back on what I hear each step ofnrhe way.

Ja-kub...
Keeps updated on your progress, on a side note, how much do you like the Gustard 26 PRO..?

I love it, I had the Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 200m prior to that and upgraded now that I’m all in on this HiFi stuff.

It’s an amazing DAC! But I’ve only listened to PCM and MQA stuff through it.

Pro’s
- Incredible bass presentation. Such smooth and well transitioned bass.
- Detailed and crisp, but surprisingly warm (probably do to the strong bass).
- Awesome sound stage depth! I just smile listening to atmospheric ambient music because the depth is phenomenal.
- Excellent detail and separation.
- Bluetooth is great, if you want it.

Con’s
- $1,500 and no headphone jack.
- No chance at customer service and product support (if I had to guess?) and a useless manual.
- Can come a cross (with certain multi channel and heavily mixed recordings) as having some tonal brightness. Like certain sounds that weren’t as apparent are overly forward and loud in contrast to the rest of the music.

It was a toss up between the X26 Pro and the RME ADI-2 FS Ultra ($1,300) for me, but I really like the Dual Saber sound and can best describe this DAC as a DAC Magic 200m on steriods. Everything the DAC magic does the Gustard does better.

But I’d say overall I have zero regrets, but again, big bass, so with some systems could be a problem.