Has anybody bought or heard a Chinese knock off amplifier?

personally i would love to hear it, and with their pre amp, if they build one 

here is a copy
 dartzeel, for some reason they do like to copy this brand, 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123084929570

cid194532 posts02-05-2021 4:46pmI’ve never heard of well known brands like Luxman or Accuphase knockoffs. Seems they would be easy to spot or the price would be the tipoff. The Chinese are making some excellent amps at very good prices. Their designs look old school and nostalgic.

The price is always the 'tip-off', but only when new. After the piece reaches the secondary market, all bets are off. This is when unscrupulous resellers crank up the selling price to that level at which an unknowing buyer can't believe his 'good fortune'.

hiendmmoe  I must respond:  Yes, China is beginning to sends rovers to extraterrestrial bodies.  There are no parts available to US (or British, etc) designers that the Chinese cannot get, especially since they manufacture for many American companies.  You would have to be racist to think they cannot do this.  Admittedly, at one time I fell in this category by thinking Japanese cars and racers would ever compare to AMURRIKUN, but we live and learn.  We should not wonder if the Chinese can, bur why they do what they do.  When a Chinese product is truly good, the company will proudly market it.  If it is a POS, it will have someones else's brand on it.   

Its all Trumps fault !

The OP asked about knock-off products, not products made in China! Apples and Oranges!

Knock-offs can be products that have a confusingly similar overall appearance to the copied products but knock-offs do not contain any identical logos or federally registered brand names. Fashion knock-offs are legal in the U.S. but a counterfeit is not.

@hiendmmoe 
I bout one expensive, very heavy “Accuphase inspired” China class A amp, which has different China Brand name on it. I inspected components inside, tested it for distortions, output impedance etc, and I didn’t find anything wrong with the amp. Amp has two 700VA toroidal transformers, feeding two separated power supplies for left and right channels. Amp is using Japan made electrolytic, well matched US made power transistors (40 total), and CNC machined enclosure. Amp is NOT Accuphase replica or copy, it has only Accuphase feel. Overall outside look and details are less refined comparing to Accuphase. Internal boards built of expensive “black” material, wiring and layout is very good. Amp has no noise, acoustically and from the speakers, and it is not possible to tell if it is on or off without looking at power LED.
Comparing to original Accuphase class A amp, it sounds little bit more beefy, but little bit less transparent at high freq. end. It beats many US/EU amplifiers, even significantly expensive ones.

To summarize: there are good, very good and bad things come out of China, it is a lottery! 

The "barely surviving" industry have themselves to thank for it. They chose to charge absurd, wild markups and content themselves with super high profit margin but low production. Those that have been trying to serve the lower end market decided to do so by pushing their class D junk.

manorraul,

My question about North Korea was a comment of sorts to a post that preceded it and which mentioned North Korea, nuclear bombs, and in some convoluted way connected that to China, all supposedly having something to do with amplifiers. There was even more in that post, but it is not worth reading again.

"Grado, Gallo, Rogue, VPI, Berkeley..."

Are these common, if at all, targets of Chinese counterfeiters?

As a food for thought, and I do not know the answer, how much is Mark Levinson (from the OP) losing on counterfeit products that cost much much less? Are these counterfeiters really stealing customers? Does anyone intending to buy Mark Levinson actually pick the fake one? Could it be that people who buy fakes would have never bought the real thing anyway?

I am not defending piracy of any kind, just wondering how much real impact it is in audio world? Are there any lost sales? Is it brand erosion? Or is it brand strengthening?

Glupson, “How many people here have bought a knock-off amplifier from North Korea?”

Is not an argument.

OP requests comments on knock-off amps so calling them a bad idea is in bounds.

Audiogon has built a system of trade in which mutual respect and fairness are valued- even a hint of dishonesty would effectively disqualify a seller. At which borders should that end? Under which conditions should theft be rewarded?

I have been to just two well-known audio manufacturers’ “factories” and each was tiny. They became known for innovations in their product lines but I doubt they had millions set aside for hard times and nothing to combat piracy or IP theft. Just another attack on an industry that is barely surviving.  Grado, Gallo, Rogue, VPI, Berkeley, and many others have created innovations which add to the hobby. Theft gives nothing back. If you want to preserve the hobby, you might want to support companies that contribute to it and not those that erode their viability.

I won’t mention counterfeit N95 masks because that’s not part of this discussion.

Back to, maybe even Chinese, look-alikes.

What is the deal with Technics SL-1200 turntable and some others that, to me, look quite similar? Pioneer, audio-technica, and maybe some more.

How did that go? Is there some design patent that had expired, or did they buy rights from Technics? I am just making these up. Does anyone know how it actually went?

AT-LP140XP - Direct-Drive Professional DJ Turntable | Audio-Technica (audio-technica.com)

PLX-1000 Professional direct drive turntable (black) - Pioneer DJ

Technics | SL-1200

So you think blatant copying is ok? Saying they are copying well respected expensive brands. Same s..t when I lived there. It all sucked.  I think its BS ..

I've looked at many of these copies,  Dartzeel, Mark Levinson, Accuphase..... Really a bunch more.  Overall,  I don't have a problem with it.... Each and every one that I looked at was advertised as a copy,  no one was trying to get over or lie about what the product was.  They normally had close up shots of the boards,  Output transistor used, Transformer, Capacitors,  bridge rectifiers etc.  I thought they did a good job of trying to represent that they were trying to reproduce a classic.  
If they were truly trying to sell fakes as an original,  you bet,  I'd be upset and would report them to any site selling them.  The ones I saw all looked like good values.  I guess that I had my own biases.  I worried that even the parts shown in these amps were not original and just never pulled the trigger,  But I do believe overall that most of these would be a good value and a decent product.....ESPECIALLY for the buck..... Tim

I’ve never heard of well known brands like Luxman or Accuphase knockoffs. Seems they would be easy to spot or the price would be the tipoff. The Chinese are making some excellent amps at very good prices. Their designs look old school and nostalgic.

Having being part of the audiophile world for over forty years,I've had my share of good amplifiers. And some pretty bad ones too.  
I'm one of those ho has given it a try a couple of times. My present main amplifier is a Music Angle 845 single ended amp that I modified with the help of Lampizator. http://lampizator.eu/amplifiers/china/SET%20triode%20amplifier%20Music%20Angel%20845%20Hong%20Kong.h...
The amplifier arrived at my home from China and sounded muffled. After the modifications to the circuit with top quality parts, I can no longer part with it. It's the best amplifier that I've owned thru all the years. Just imagine if I'd have installed better Japanese transformers.
Those modifications where made in 2008. Its still going strong and better than ever. 

One of my favorite s&s amp in the past was a NAP250 of the first generation by Naim Audio. It was sweet sounding with lots of tempo, but not the last word in micro details. The one thing that it made you do, was taping your feet with the music. It was never boring.

I noticed a Chinese clone of the NAP250 in a two enclosure set up for sale at a real low price on the net for 159.95$ US plus low shipping charges. I said to myself, the worst I can loose is 211.00$ total. So I gave it a go. I figured I needed a backup amp just in case. 

The clone amp is build differently from the original and it uses different transistors as well. But the sound is very similar to the old original Naim. The build quality is very good. The amp is totally quiet. Mind you, I was driving the old NAP250 with a Naim NAC72 with High-Cap power supply at the time. This clone was driven with a tube pre-amp based on the Marantz 7 circuit that I made.

I must add that I did purchase other Chinese tube amps in the past and all of them sounded muffled. If you do give the Chinese amps a try, I would go with their S&S models. 
Hope this helps. 

Reading this thread reminds me of the racism, xenophobia and gingoism of other times in American history. It also may explain how China (and many of the Others) will continue eating our lunch until the shrinking generations of haters’ offspring from the 40’s and 50’s pass on. Be careful out there. Lots of good stuff comes from the other side of the globe. Buyer beware when ordering direct. It can cost a bundle to return a 60lb amp or two to anyplace overseas.

Yes, but nobody survived to talk about it.

I’ve bought quite a few Chinese audio components over the last decade. Mostly mid-fi stuff that I upgraded myself.

My first foray was a Music Angel XD800 Mk3 tube amp. It cost ~$600. After upgrading it with about $200 worth of parts, it was an excellent performer. Not a $10,000 amp killer, but it definitely punched above the $800 amps.

I then modified a Shanling T-80 tubed CD player. $100 in parts turned it into a killer analog-sounding CDP. Friends couldn’t believe that a CDP could sound so analog.

My latest modification has been to a Singxer SU-1 DDC. I bought it for $450 and have spent $250 on upgrading it. It connects (via I2S) to a Gustard x20 Pro DAC (another Chinese component). This is a killer combo for playing DSD files.

I haven’t heard any of the other high end components mentioned already but I feel there are good deals to be found. Not all Chinese components are dogs (or blatant copies).

I have some experience in this area--not much, but some.

First off, true knock offs--posing to be something they are not--are not too common. There are clear examples, like Mistral’s B&W knock offs.

In my view, most of the China HiFi market is made up of four types.

1) clear knock offs--not that common. I define this as something that says it’s a Mark Levinson amp--not a cloned circuit.

2). Clones/Kit Using Legendary Circuits.

3) Discrete New Products. I define these as Line Magnetic, Doge Audio, Cayin, Willenston, Denafrips, and so on. These are organically designed and made in China products with strong corporate back stories. Also, these products use high quality components and should not be judged without listening or "popping the hood". The quality in these products is near exceptional.

4) US/Canadian/European Companies. Many household name companies design their products in their home sovereign then build them in China, under contract with a factory. The list of these is massive.

As to the OP’s question, I have heard some clone amps. I heard a Mark Levinson clone and a couple Pass clones. A friend built a Marantz clone from a PCB sold by China-HIfi. All were pretty decent, but of varying quality. Some of them are really, really nice. I think ones that use a tried and true circuit from an older product--e.g., Citation, Marantz M7, etc.--are pretty decent. Those products trying to be a facsimile of a product (see clear knock offs), are less likely to impress if compared to the real thing.

I hope that makes sense!

What about Magnetbox, Panaphonic and Sorny ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guck4FoWQss

I have bought many China electronics. I have learned to use Google chrome translation on the China Taobao site and other Chinese reviews. There are cheap knockoffs and there are VERY good ones. Unless you know the language or spend time on the Chinese language sites you may never know. For the most part the ones on Aliexpress are the better ones but the best ones are only on the Chinese language Taobao.

I have very high end original equipment and some of the best clones. The best clones sound incredible but are slightly different from the exact sound of the originals.  Unfortunately there are some real turds as well as outstanding products as well. Most are modeled after discontinued products though which probably circumvents the issue with copyright. The Dart Zeel boards are 100% exact circuitboards and the component choice and device matching it what will seperate the original sond from the clone in absolute terms.

There are people that buy Prima-Luna amps and pay good money for them, whats the difference ??  I have people send me amps to repair all the time from Chinese manufacturers, try to get a on-off switch or a knob or any help with diagrams.....I tried to repair a very popular Chinese amp not long ago and couldn't get a diagram or any help what so ever.....So I've decided to not repair any non-American amps.......So when you buy a Prima-Luna amp make friends with Kevin , he might fix it for you.........W

I can't take the time to read all this but, there is good stuff made in China by very reputable companies; I own an Auralic Aries G.1 .
There are fakes and weird stuff. Painting with a broad brush is never fruitful

Understanding Geniuses or Goethe is not about arguing.... I dont doubt by the way you are talented... It was never a competition between Sidis and you....

But Why undermining my point about interesting Geniuses biographies?

And Goethe or Archimedes are not dead....Spirit dont die....

Goethe for example never used first and foremost, "arguments", he was a supremum artist, and a natural scientist, he created art or he observed nature never argue about it....He only argued against the Newton way to reduce colors and he "argued" only with experiments against him, establishing the physiology of colors perception for the first time in history which was  praised by all, especially Edwin Land father of colors photography....It is only one of his accomplishment....

I will mute myself and going back to audio.... Sorry....

my best to you....

mahgister,

"The fact that thephilosophy of your time has no appeal to you does not means the same thing in your case than in the case of Goethe... "

I beg to differ. It is about the same for Goethe and me. He might have been great at some things, but that does not make his disinterest in philosophy of his time much more noble or valuable than mine. Aside of that, I posses some skills that, for various reasons, he could not have dreamed of.

"You cannot , not because you are not interested, but mainly because that does not make sense for you...."

It just happens that I truly lack interest. I may be aware of a few more things than you would expect me to be. Sure, reading arguments from long-dead men trying to outsmart each other while not doing much is not my cup of tea. I find it boring.

I love how whenever this topic comes up, 99% of the comments have nothing at all to do with the topic. So let's talk about clone sound. I picked up a super cheap Naim NAP 200 copy from AliExpress. These are all over the place. They don't copy the case, but claim to be a copy of the circuit. I've never heard the legit NAP 200. The sound was actually very nice...as long as it doesn't get complex / busy, then it falls apart (sonically).

I also got a no-name CD transport from Queenway store (AliExpress seller, has many clones) which claims to copy a Wadia circuit and has a spring-mounted CD tray. It does sound better than my other Chinese CD player used as a transport. They don't have that version anymore and seem to sell an updated version with a better clock. Mine also has an issue of overheating / glitching where it'll stop playing and error itself out after a long period of playing. I managed to break a cable harness trying to remove the cover, and the seller actually sent me a replacement harness for just $1. But the case was cut with basically 0 tolerance so now I can't get it back on, I'd have to file some of it down I think. This is what you end up paying for I guess.

There's an Accusphase clone I'm interested in as well as FM amp which they claim to have copied 1:1 including the proprietary modules. They also have matching preamp clones too. There's many Pass clones too. 

I recently purchased several cable clones. Today I received a copy of the Nordost Odin 2 Supreme Reference RCA interconnects. The cable conductors look just like the real article (and are constructed just like them if you believe the images they have up on AliExpress). These also have the original Nordost-looking plugs "Holo-Plug", but I thought mine were kind of dirty / dull and I doubt a legit Nordost would be like that. Initial listen I didn't notice any major difference over my Audio Envy interconnects, but then they need to burn in so that's what they're doing now.

Also coming is a copy -- maybe a gray market legit product -- Audioquest FireBird biwire and WEL Signature interconnects. They look exactly the same as the legit items, including the DBA modules. The reason why I said maybe a gray market product is because Audioquest cables are made in China and just assembled in the US. Since these things look exactly like the original based on images they could be off the books factory runs assembled and sold out the back door. Of course the proof will be in the hearing, if I just end up with a set of expensive audio jewelry than oh well I deserve it :)

The only other cable I got from them was a Transparent Audio Wave Ultra MM2 power cable which is also burning in. It's a heavy and stiff cable, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that the center network box has nothing but epoxy in it.

Interesting I note that there's also SIltech cables which really do look like the originals and that Siltech started using a identity verification tool using a smartphone app to scan tags to validate legitimate Siltech products. It would be "funny" if Siltech is actually selling the same cables that China sells grey market for a fraction of the price.

dweller,

"glupson - You failed to mention that I capitalized the word "Hate" in the last sentence.
Pretty sloppy..."

I might have overestimated your style. I thought that capitalized "Hate" is a stylistic figure of giving it presence, demonizing it in some way, rather than another example of your poor writing skills.

Please forgive my sloppiness. At least until you learn how to get your writing skills close to a non-native speaker/writer level.

cayin 80 class A hybrid amp,preamp very nice sound for under $2800 beats most at over $4k

Another question should be Are there very good Chinese high end audio products out there that do their own research to make a quality product and not infringe upon international patents?

Now let's talk about the so-called 'data driven' mindset. If you read the forums, it becomes apparent fairly quickly that 'measurements' is the new game in town. In fact, it's the only game in town. Listening is optional! It's no surprise that the low-end of the Chinese audio industry has latched on to this as an opportunity to gain market share. We've moved from an artisan approach to one that's focused on numbers alone. People used to buy based on the designer's reputation (Nelson Pass, Bob Carver, etc.), now they base their decisions on charts and graphs. Again, listening is not required.

Unfortunately, the US and European audiophile industry will follow the same path as the manufacturing and electronics industries in the last 20+ years, i.e. fade into oblivion. They are burdened with comparatively high labor and R&D costs, IP regulations, and a capital market that rewards short-term profits. The Chinese manufacturers don't need to worry about any of the above.

Thanks for you wise observations indeed....

My best to you....

I'll keep my comment focused solely on audiophile equipment manufacturing. There's definitely a shift in consumer mindset when it comes to what the somewhat 'seasoned' generation of audiophiles values and prioritizes when buying audio gear. If you look at well-known and well-respected audio companies in the western hemisphere and Japan, a few attributes stand out (in no particular order): high fidelity, very high standards when it comes to design and manufacturing, emphasis on long-term reliability (we're talking 20+ years), and pride in craftsmanship and ownership.

The younger audiophile generation is different. Instead of craftsmanship and pride of ownership, its mental model revolves around 'planned obsolescence' and a 'data driven' mindset. Whether it's electronics, clothes, shoes, cars, you name it, they 'expect' things to not last more than a few years. That's how we have been conditioned -- 'I'll just buy a new one in two years!'

The Chinese audio business model is a great fit for this new mindset. We want the cheapest possible audio equipment with reasonable, just good enough, quality and performance. Why should I pay for some overbuilt Pass Labs or Boulder amp when I'm going to end up replacing in a couple of years anyways? Why do I need to worry about repairs if the technology will be obsolete in a few years anyways?

Now let's talk about the so-called 'data driven' mindset. If you read the forums, it becomes apparent fairly quickly that 'measurements' is the new game in town. In fact, it's the only game in town. Listening is optional! It's no surprise that the low-end of the Chinese audio industry has latched on to this as an opportunity to gain market share. We've moved from an artisan approach to one that's focused on numbers alone. People used to buy based on the designer's reputation (Nelson Pass, Bob Carver, etc.), now they base their decisions on charts and graphs. Again, listening is not required.

Unfortunately, the US and European audiophile industry will follow the same path as the manufacturing and electronics industries in the last 20+ years, i.e. fade into oblivion. They are burdened with comparatively high labor and R&D costs, IP regulations, and a capital market that rewards short-term profits. The Chinese manufacturers don't need to worry about any of the above. 

As there is nowhere near as much reward in copying an amplifier ....as there is in copying even the most mundane of computer cards and/or computer technology.

Exactly, they made better profits copying these cards than they would with an amp.

Some facts cannot be an exageration....Some can...

They exist or not, like his conference at Harvard officially recorded, or like his description of black hole in a book... Then affirming after that that some facts are exagerated, yes probably some are.... But the main point of his genius in history is not and even cannot be negated nor reduced because of the others proven facts....Superficial scepticicism can negate it , founding a new sceptic club, and calling it a myth.... 😁

The philosophy of my time has no appeal to me, but I am aware that intelligence is overrated.

Whithout offending you ,you are beside the point...The fact that thephilosophy of your time has no appeal to you does not means the same thing in your case than in the case of Goethe...

Can you understand and state clearly why for example Charles Sanders Peirce denying some Kant point of view, reverse to it in his own way, promoting a kind of phenomenology very different than Goethe one...

You cannot , not because you are not interested, but mainly because that does not make sense for you.... Then you cannot assimilate Goethe understanding of phenomenology from his reading of Spinoza against the nominalism of his time, and your own desinterest for your own contemporary philosophers neighbours motivated by a lack of understanding to his complete understanding... No?

Intelligence is not I.Q. and cannot be overated....

I.Q. is always overrated.... Marilyn Vos Savant is supposed to be on par with Goethe in I.Q. points...There is even NO comparison at all between the genius of one and the real and very great intelligence of this woman tough...

If they can do that they can easily clone and Amp

I agree that they could and sometimes do,but they rarely (if at all) clone an amp perfectly.


As there is nowhere near as much reward in copying an amplifier ....as there is in copying even the most mundane of computer cards and/or computer technology.

"Goethe was so intelligent that the philosophy of his time has no appeal to him..."

The philosophy of my time has no appeal to me, but I am aware that intelligence is overrated.

"...he was speaking almost all main European languages..."

Much bigger bragging rights would come with "...he was speaking almost all non-main European languages..."

Be it what it is, according to the almighty Wikipedia, it seems that some of the claims were exagerrated despite him clearly being an unusually gifted person.

I don't know about amps but recently I have been exposed to complex computer cards performing complex operations manufactured by American companies which the Chinese have cloned PERFECTLY including the software and you can't barely tell if these are original or not, even more you contact the American company with the serial number and they verified was authentic (and I know it was a clone).

If they can do that they can easily clone and Amp

Just a couple of observations, I was perusing eBay the other day looking at McIntosh. In the listings was a MC 275. It looked just like an MC 275 until they got to the detailed pics. The side of the unit had a different name (can't remember what it was but,) the McIntosh script name was something different, not McIntosh. Looked like it and included the 275 designation. Secondly, If anyone cares to remember the early Walmart ads touting everything was "made in America". That's long gone away. Now they'd pretty much have to say everything is "Made in China". The greed of corporate America has forced everything to China (or other off-shore locations). It's had nothing to do with unions or the tree huggers.  I've said it for years, if this trend continues, there will be no one left to buy the refrigerators. Their $15 an hr. minimum wage salary just won't get it. Pay people a living wage and stop padding the bottom line. Put the quality back into the products and not the profit. Sure, the stock values will decline a bit at first but how much is enough (profit)? Long live Madman Muntz!  AB

Think you said you are a reader of biographies. I doubt there is a more fascinating subject than Rimbaud.

One of the most extraordinary bio is about one of the most extraordinary man...

RIchard Francis Burton, the only genius, on par with Freud and Lévy-Strauss, in their fields, whom was a linguist speaking perfectly at least 45 or 55 languages, one of the greatest translator of English Litterature, one great Poet and Writers on hiw own, One of the greatest explorer of the British Empire, and a man among men, who beat 7 times the greatest french swordsman...


But the most incredible one is not this one...

Try William James Sidis, an easy man to evaluate... We can consult his conference at Harvard at 11 years old about the projection of 4 dimensional body in Euclidean 3 -d space... At this age he was speaking almost all main European languages and has already create an artificial language of his own, apparently better than Esperanto.... The list of his feats is too incredible to be believe... His I.Q. has no way to be measured by apes... He lived vouching to remain unknown but cannnot be successful....He discovered black Hole by theoretical reflexion like Laplace in his only physic book at 17 years old and published it on his name at 20... Norbert Wiener himself a prodigious genius speak of him in his autobiography and even Wiener seems less talented when we compared the speed of childhood development...


Some life are too extraordinary to be believe.... And so turn the earth....

Archimedes was so intelligent that if enough people on earth had understood him rightly at his times, humanity may have been able to travel to the moon one thousand years ago.... He created the infinitesimal calculus and the infinite concept before Newton did... But it was a greek who let few pages....Probably with Tesla, Ramanujan. Gauss and Goethe, and Leonardo, one of the greatest soul to live...

Imagine the genius of Goethe, a poet that use more words than Shakespeare and Rabelais, and a first order biologist, contradicting Newton and refutating it about the physics of colors....Goethe was so intelligent that the philosophy of his time has no appeal to him and he founded the philosophical phenomenology on more secure ground than even Husserl after him....

I lived in Shanghai for 5.5 years from 2009 to 2014. The knockoff bags, shoes, backpack, watches, etc etc all looked very good! But they were total and complete s**t! All of it. 
Some of the larger established Chinese brands are actually pretty good. Shengya, Cayin, etc are pretty good and very well priced, especially bought in China. I would be very wary of these look a like knockoff amplifiers being any good and would also be concerned about the safety of the product. No free lunch. 

A shame he doesn’t have a grammarchecker.
But, when one replies with such a weak retort, grammar may not be a priority.

asiaaudiosoc4 posts02-05-2021 4:10am
.......Back on topic, if you look at the way Chinese counterfeits are made and sold you will realise they are not meant to replace the real thing and are also not meant to fool a buyer.........

That might be true for some items, for others, the exact opposite is the case. There are multitudes of counterfeit Chinese goods on the market that have every last detail of the original, every marking, including the brand name. This extends to the packaging, as well. Ebay is full of items like this, the auctions/sellers are located in China.

dweller,

I beg your pardon...
BTW, It’s Math not Maths... (even my spellchecker flagged this one).
Now about that slave labor...
And " killing all spirit by the "noble" british empire" -Better work on your Hate as well, bub...

Is "It’s" after a comma really a capital letter?

Would there be a comma after "Math"?

Would the sentence be better if it did not start with "And" in that example?

Is space between quotation and Killing needed?

Should there be a space between the dash and "Better" as it is between "empire" and the dash?

A number of posts earlier in the thread discuss mahgister’s language skills. If your French is better than his English, you may try to tell him how you feel again.

Questions above are true questions. We all want to learn.

Currently listening to a Chinese Icepower amp - 50ASX2SE into Klipsch Forte speakers.  $160 shipped.  Arrived in about 2 weeks.  Very smooth tube-like sounding with nice bass and midrange.  

I paid $20 for a Chinese tube preamp and modded it to a cathode follower circuit.  Sounds great buffering my DAC and phono preamp.  

Was a time when anything made in Japan was considered a joke.  Not anymore and China is following the same path.  I own a Chinese made 5 string banjo which costs $1,000 now.  It holds it own against a 5K American made instrument.  

I would certainly advise caution when purchasing this Chinese stuff but my experience has been good.  

I've read about these clones of high-end brands from the likes of FM Acoustics etc. from China on another forum 2 or 3 years ago. Apparently someone bought the clones and compared them to the original. It was reported that there is a difference in sound quality between the units but it is not significant and very close.

I don't think anyone here in their right mind will consider buying clones or counterfeit gear from China. Personally I don't buy anything Made in China for my hifi.

if you look at the way Chinese counterfeits are made and sold you will realise they are not meant to replace the real thing and are also not meant to fool a buyer. These are for people who want to fool other people into thinking they have the real thing

Going to need a second cup of tea before I can even begin to absorb that one...

Mistrust of China is ridiculous, how often does China send soldiers to invade another country?

You might like to address that question to our friends in India at this very moment.
Or pose that first part to our friends in Hong Kong and Taiwan.
Or Vietnam.
Or Thailand.
Or Cambodia.
Or any country near the South China Sea.

Short response: if it breaks or comes to you nonfunctional, will you be able to say "Oh well", and throw it away or try to fix it yourself?
Long response:
There are some really good Chinese products, but if you have an issue or your component breaks and you can't speak Chinese, forget it.  If you must buy Chinese, go through a seller in your own country.  A lot of their HIFI components are not particularly cheap, so if it breaks you are left with a paperweight/doorstop.  Even with the name products (not counterfeits) it can be difficult/impossible to get satisfaction.  I've had issues with Topping products in that I was sent a UK plug for US use and spent many weeks just trying to get the Chinese dealer to understand that I needed the US one (Shenzhen Audio didn't give me the option of picking US/UK plug, and Topping usually sends both).  Never resolved - instead of sending me the correct wall wart adapter I needed, they sent me an IEC power cord which was useless for it.  Sent pictures of what I needed, and got back polite, nonsensical responses.  Second was a Topping DAC that had the lettering on the front upside down (same seller) - they offered $20 refund for a $750 unit.  Even with a company like Denafrips, you can't return something just if you don't like it, and any repairs you need (even under warranty) after 30 days you have to pay shipping costs to send it back to them.  The Chinese knockoff guitars of famous brands are nowhere near the quality of the US models but they don't even try to pretend that they're the real deal (and they're a lot cheaper), so you know what you're getting.

I imagine that if you live in Hong Kong or Tawian you love the CCP who will use any force necessary to control you?  I don't think so.

Regarding China, Mahgister is the one who knows what he's talking about. I bet most of the others have never been to China and are "experts" based on CNN. CCP enjoys huge popularity and support in China, much more than any GOP or Dem government will ever get in USA. Mistrust of China is ridiculous, how often does China send soldiers to invade another country? USA sends soldiers abroad to kill and conquer all the time.
Back on topic, if you look at the way Chinese counterfeits are made and sold you will realise they are not meant to replace the real thing and are also not meant to fool a buyer. These are for people who want to fool other people into thinking they have the real thing. Same as counterfeit bags or watches. If you want original quality you buy the real thing.