Ozzy, have you determined what kind of ground is going to the box? Are you connecting in series or parallel?
If your box is a chassis ground or otherwise an electrical ground then you would be creating a loop no matter what the device is.
If your signal ground is not part of the AC ground of the device then you will be okay. Have you checked all your ground points to the AC ground pin on the IEC of your devices first to determine which is truly a signal and which are AC grounds?
To repeat, on my amp, the ground of the iec on the amp is exactly the exterior of the XLR connectors and the chassis itself. So therefore, they are AC grounds and already being dumped through your power cable. If you try and "ground" them once again via a box, that is okay. If you then tie the box banana to an outlet ground, that is creating a buzz because it is a ground loop.
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I would like to try the Andrews plug, but since I got hum when I tried a ground wire from an AC outlet to my grounding box, I'm not sure if the Andrews device would change that.
I am in the USA, and it would be a long return process.
ozzy
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I found plugging in the ground wire from grounding box to a power conditioner is better.
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It would never be an empty box. It would have to have filters for certain frequencies and perhaps some diodes to let the noise escape and not return.
I never said the Andrews was an empty box.
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The Andrews should have a filter network in it like the Groundmaster to make sure what goes in does not came back through.
What makes you think it's just an empty box with a simple wire in it?
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Similar to my incident. Must be making a ground loop. Don't forget, many chassis grounds can be signal grounds on some devices. My amp's ground to the wall is also the chassis and XLR grounds.
Here is a simple device I made with a spare Furutech clamshell plug and banana jack. Takes the banana plug straight to ground only (one wire inside). With the clamshell you can grab the banana nut and hold it tight to the plastic shell when you close it up.
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I just tried connecting a ground wire from an outlet to my grounding box and I heard hum.
ozzy
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The Andrews should have a filter network in it like the Groundmaster to make sure what goes in does not came back through.
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tksteingraber,
What is the difference between the Russ Andrews unit and just using the ground from the outlet?
ozzy
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Now I am again amazed what the Entreq grounding box does. I just added a Peak 4 to one of the Silver Tellus terminals. This device is a wooden knob, I guess hollowed out with some metals inside. (I think they claim there is 5 different metals). It just screws on in place of one of the wooden nuts that hold the cable in place.
Son of a gun, this little thing does add more detail. At first I thought it to be a bit too bright especially in the upper midrange/treble area but now a day later has emerged into the soundstage. What I am hearing is more detail throughout.
This sure amazes me since it is only signal grounding. What we don’t know about the crap in the ground connections that is left to discover?
ozzy
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Ozzy, yes it’s listed on the last page #3 under all grounding products. Made to order at 217 vs 228 on the uk version.
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pedroeb,
Is there a USA version of the Russ Andrews Plug In RF Router?
ozzy
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Ozzy,
I'm with you. That's why I'm going with the plug in unit.
I've learnt that Russ Andrews is having a 25% sale starting on the March 28. That's off the purchase price but then the cable is not included with the sale. Personally I'm happy to do my own cabling.
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Thanks for the replies. I'm not keen on adding an additional earth grounding rod. Mostly I fear that with a lightning strike there would be 2 paths to ground.
I also own a Sorcer X4 and the new I/O unit for usb and ethernet. Great equipment.
ozzy
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Yes, I have 2 earth rods. One for AC grounding from the Puritan and one for signal grounds via the Russ unit.
So far the biggest gains for me have been the 2 ADD-PWR Wizards I use. The music is so addicting I could care less about noise. But I like to tinker so I'll carry on. I'm sure I'll get time to get those boxes going this weekend.
I also owe Jeff Smith a call so we can kibitz about grounding.
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Grounding Guide
They have a Plug In RF Router which allows grounding though a power outlet and a RF Router MK2 for use with an earth rod.
They are connected to anything that needs grounding such as casework grounds, shielding and even speaker driver frames if you are so inclined.
The idea is to provide an ideal way to remove anything that might be ruining your sound quality.
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Thanks, Does the device connect up to ac ground and then to what?
ozzy
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bugredmachine,
Can you post a picture of the Andrew device?
ozzy
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One thing I did try last weekend was putting the Andrews device in and connecting the neg from my Wilsons and that produced a nice subtle buzz. So, a no-go on the Wilsons going to earth ground.
So now I have all my other signal grounds in the Andrews unit.
It's been a hectic week. Company visitors and a leaky pipe that took me 2 nights to repair. Now I'm paying my KY taxes.
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bugredmachine,
Nice pictures. I still haven't been able to figure out how to post pictures. For now though, I have posted pictures on my systems page of my DIY grounding box.
ozzy
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@rixthetrick
Talking with one of the locals in Ireland, the local lads after getting lubricated at the pub, used to go up and pee all over that stone. Of course, I was told after I'd kissed the damned thing myself.
The electrolytes improve the conductivity, so it grounds better ;)
(It also reminds we on the joke of Shamus and the other fellow, getting free drink in London.)
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I'm going to try one wide and one tall. Planning to stand them up to save floor space. Some progress on these prototype boxes.
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@holmz - Talking with one of the locals in Ireland, the local lads after getting lubricated at the pub, used to go up and pee all over that stone. Of course, I was told after I'd kissed the damned thing myself.
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Perhaps that was the point.
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That's a load of Blarney😁
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A stone version makes for solid grounding.
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Sure, once I have something worth trying. I will be using MDF for the box so I can open it up and re-configure if needed.
The Andrews box should be here this week.
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@bugredmachine if you don’t mind share pics and ingredient list if it works out for you. I am planning to build a third box twice the size of my current two DIY boxes. Intrigued by the “pull” construction. Each speaker will have its own small box and the large box will be connected to the conditioner and wall outlet. Also, I am thinking about acquiring the Russ Andrews box to compare. Let us know how you like his box. Thanks
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I plan to use silver wire going into copper plates inside as they are on the same end of the galvanic scale. Then I am planning to use aluminum plates on the other end of the scale to create the "pull" across the conductive media.
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The best explanation you can give is a demo. So make it a good one.
I've got ingredients on the way to make one box. One lousy box. I will have to find some sources for 5 gallon buckets of minerals to build 4 or 5 more if these work out. Of course with all the Russia stuff going on, I don't dare try and buy large quantities of Shungite from there at much better prices than the health outfits who sell it at a premium in small quantities.
I'm going to set up my box with a possible drain out the back side that I could additionally take to ground. That is why I ordered the Russ Andrews unit to see how his circuit functions compared to the Groundmaster.
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gavman,
You should never try to explain this hobby to someone outside of the audiophile community. You will be branded as a nut who spends money foolishly on stupid things. I remember in the old days when I tried to talk to the regulars about my stereo, they would immediately bring up there Bose stereo...
And NEVER try to convince an EE about the electrical benefits of the power cords etc...
ozzy
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Man i am just in awe of those like ozzy and bugredmachine who are building their own grounding kit.
Whenever i try to explain to a non audiophile what's this box is that I've blown all my money on, it's not long before I'm using words like 'witchcraft'
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rsf507,
Thank you for that attachment. I am a member of that Forum. There is noise riding on the grounds within our system.
Signal, chassis etc. grounding is still a very unknown area at this point, at least to me, this needs to be investigated further.
ozzy
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I ordered a Russ Andrews RF Router MKII for my signal grounds going to separate ground rod.
BTW, the Groundmaster is potted so you cannot decipher its guts other than the faint outline of caps in the potting.
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I believe solid silver works the best 16-18 gauge.
ozzy
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@ozzy or anyone else experimenting with ground boxes. Have you been able to confirm whether or not you gain SQ improvement by:
- using silver wire vs. copper
- solid wire vs stranded
- different gauge size
- cable lengths matter
- connector end metal types or just nude
I tried using nps 1260 and didn’t distinguish any additional improvement. Thanks
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Just talked to a rep from Puritan. He advised against using the Puritan Grandmaster City version to connect up to my Entreq.
ozzy
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twoleftears,
So, the Groundmaster City costs $250 and cannot be used without the other device the Routemaster that costs $700. Is that correct? Why not sell them as a set?
It also seems that it should be able to be plugged into a Entreq that has 4 connections.
ozzy
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@ozzy The plug going into the socket provides the ground. The green wire connects the unit to the Routemaster, which provides a number of connections for grounding all of the components in the system (see photo with different terminations of those other green wires).
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@pedroeb
You could try
Plug In RF Router UK | System Grounding | Russ Andrews Accessories Ltd
There is also a European version.
More reading on grounding
Layout 1 (russandrews.com)
I have met the owner of Puritan ( Mike ) many times really nice guy and honest, great products.
In UK, the "plug in" version does not seem to be supplied so why I have posted a link to Russ Andrews who make other products.
I tried an earth wire 10 mm one wire connected to a Power supply for a DAC then in to a ground rod as an experiment FOR A FEW MINUTES ONLY.
DO NOT CONEECT ANY OF your equipment to a ground rod without a RF router of some type.
Grounding - Safety Fundamentals (1hr:13min:19sec) - YouTube
Moving on.
Grounding my system with one wire via a ground rod as above made a pleasant surprise, bass improved and treble less harsh so went all in for a full blown system with 2 x 3 meter ground rods 21 metres apart with 16 mm earth cable.
One rod measured 18 ohms two rods 10 ohms.
PeakTech 2700 - Digital Earth Resistance Tester, Dual Illumination LCD Display and 2 Earth Rods, Earth Resistance, AC/DC, TÜV/GS, Data Hold, Auto Power Off, Automatic Zero Adjustment - Cat III 1000 V : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science
I must admit there was not much more improvement with the full blown version that ended up being quite expensive various cables and all equipment connected.
My advice is try a ground rod with one wire before you purchase a RF Router.
Hope the above helps......
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I see you guys built your boxes like I did except we used different conductive media. I think I am going to try the reverse battery arrangement and lead in with plates like copper or stainless that are isolated from the rest of the box. Then I will put aluminum plates that do not touch the copper plates but use the conductive media to make the "circuit". It will take me a few weeks to do this. It will also be messy since the powder will be messy to reuse if this is a failure.
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The green wire is meant to connect to the Puritan unit when using a Groundmaster. It takes all the power grounds out to the earth rod.
On the city version I think it connects to the Puritan and then to a duplex via its ground connection. So, almost "earth ground", but more the electrical ground in the dwelling.
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jew16384,
Thank you for your post but I'm sorry, I don't understand.
ozzy
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bugredmachine,
You can get Carbon at the tropical fish store look for activated pure carbon. The Graphene and Graphene oxide was purchased via Ebay. Most of the other items can be purchased on Amazon.
ozzy
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twoleftears,
On the Puritan City, what does the green wire connect up to? Chassis ground, Entreq boxes?
ozzy
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