just send you gear to me for upgrades. The DAC can be set-up to achieve a much higher level as well as the Prima gear. You'll get much improved sound than buying one component.
Happy Listening
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decooney and russbutton: Well guys, both the Don Sachs and the Quicksilver amps look like good paths to take. And neither kill a budget. You've given me a lot to think about. I do agree. I will probably give up the PL, as is, before going down an uncharted rabbit hole of tube rolling. I do think the PL is a great amp for some setups. And it does knock the socks off of visitors who don't analyze the finer nuances of music (as some of us do). I think I will move to a different amp solution up ahead. I must say that I lean toward integrated (in whatever brand) for simplicity but assembling some components isn't out of the question. |
With your budget, I'd get the Don Sachs ($3000) custom built version of the VTA SP14 preamp ($1600). They're both the exact same preamp, but the VTA looks like a home-brew kit. It is available as a kit and if you feel you'd enjoy the satisfaction of actually building something, that's even less at $1200. |
Got it, now I understand why others were suggesting an uplift looking at other amps. Yeah, you’re only gonna get so much out of that bone stock PL and your speakers. You're in SET Triode amp or a lower power quality amp territory now, and with those speakers can be the sweet spot. Next chapter will be fun :) Lots to consider out there. Kinda depends on your typical volume levels you like to listen to as well. Heck I’d even recommend considering the Quicksilver Mid Monos, 50% triode, pretty sweet for the money with your speakers. I run QS myself. Plan on getting a really good separate linestage/preamp if you don’t go with some higher-end integrated amp again.
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Which model are they closest to from the Daedalus line? The reason I’m asking is wondering about the impedance of your speakers.
Mods, upgrades to PL400? - Was looking up your existing PL400 amp too. I’ve never heard one. Always wondered, an associate has one with some speakers we built in common. He likes his. Looking over some two year old specs, shows they may run the plate voltage pretty low on that amp of yours to spare output tubes long-long term. Might benefit more with the smaller opt tubes vs. the larger KT tubes. i.e. "keeping it in the window" for the specific tube - as one tech I follow mentioned recently. I’ve never heard that amp, always wondered why some owners resale or try others. Might be fun to have a handy tech to scope it out for mods before buying any more tubes for it. Also wondering if Upscale Audio has ever done any ultra-upgraded versions of that amp quietly in the diy underground by someone. Maybe more potential there too. Only mentioning this b/c all of my amps are modded, upgraded, and with helpful tech friends have realized some amazing improvements with even better parts.
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dz13Thanks for sharing that. The Valhalla looks intriguing and I'm bookmarking the site. It could be a key one for me up ahead as I slowly move to make some decisions on equipment additions in the coming year. 👍 |
I know we all post about what we have used. My tube background isn't that extensive but I've had the Rogers 65v-2, I still own the LTA Z40+ integrated and now I also own the Don Sachs Valhalla. The Valhalla is about 33 watts and is really really nice. This is made now by someone Don taught to make it and has a decent warranty. If it interests you at all, I can link up the site that describes it and put you in touch with the guy who makes them now. |
kiwibikerAny suggestions of the specific tubes that you might think would make a positive difference? |
@charles1dad AD1. Built around the EML tube. |
Rogers High Fidelity on their website has a pre - owned EHF 200 Mark II Integrated amp w/ full lifetime warranty! Very high quality, sounds excellent & quite powerful! 100 watts / side pure class A so it does put out some heat. About $15K new. I’ve had mine for 1 1/2 years & it’s a great piece which I highly recommend. It is substantially better than Mac, Prima Luna & probably any other integrated tube amp under $15 K. Handmade , point to point wired by Roger Gibboni & a small group of skilled pro’s. |
I don’t have the long term experience owning many tube amps like some here have, but I’ve done a bunch of research and listened to quite a few systems. My 2nd tube integrated (which I own now) is the Raven Audio Osprey at around $5K. They sell direct only so no dealer margins to pay and offer a 45 day in home trial for a nominal restocking fee. Service is exceptional. I like the sub-out with 80Hz filter/bypass feature - it drives my 2 RELs. I’m so impressed with Raven I’m trying to upgrade/trade-in the Osprey this year for 100% of it’s purchase price to the $15K Refection. My system is detailed in my profile. |
Seattle HiFi has new and a lot of demos http://seattlehifi.com/demos/?audio-research-i-50-tube-integrated-amplifier-red
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@gregjacob I have never owned a primaluna but have heard a couple. I wasn't impressed, I concluded it was the amp, but I have to be honest that it was other peoples' systems. for a true test, it would be much better to drop one into my system so I would be able to control the other variables. the ZMA is a point to point wired vs printed circuit board for the primaluna. Primaluna. The PL is a bit of a swiss army knife with all the features, but that in my opinion degrades the signal. The ZMA's strong point's are the huge power supply and simple signal path. I am a big fan but I don't need so much power and am fixated on the simple SETs now. Yes, i will be listing it for sale soon but I am not offering it for sale yet. I know there are a lot of Primaluna owners out there. This is my opinion only. I'm just a guy and my opinion is worth what you pay for it so don't be offended. the custom amp is a 6 figure amp with hand wound transformers and some amazing features. I am very lucky to be able to purchase it. I have heard the layout version of it and it is already the best amp I've ever heard. Jerry |
@charles1dad and @carlsbad2 excellent discussion I'll just say I found myself dissatisfied with tubes amps until I heard my first pushpull Class A triode wired amp, since then I've never wanted anything else. 😉 |
Carver Blackmagic 25s, mono them, ~$4000 for two. Have yet to hear the RAM285, but good reviews from Axpona, 85w/ch. $4995 unless you get in early for the $1000 off the first 50 orders. |
@boxertwin12 I have a Decware ZMA, a UFO and am on the waitlist for a 300b. In the mean time I’m having a custom amp made which will probably replace all of them. but they are hard to beat. I would recommend the 300b but there are so few out there that they are unheard of on the secondary market and 2 years out on the waitlist. I’ve owned 3 different Decware amps so far, all bought on the secondary market.
Jerry |
+1 on The Octave To consider: Rogue Audio Pharaoh II integrated (Tube/Hypex hybrid) Rogue Audion RP-1 with PS Audio class D M700 Mono Blocks Modwright KWH225i Hybrid integrated on on usaudiomart Tubed pre of choice around $2K with used Bryston 4B or 3B cubed amp. NOTE: The Bryston Power Amps come with a 20 year warranty. |
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@charles1dad Thanks. BTW, I forgot that @brandonw is on here. I would definitely recommend a custom amp from his Apollo Audio Systems to meet the OP's desires.. Jerry |
Audio Mirror Reflection 45s SET monoblocks for $5K. One of the best bargains in audio today. You can add the Audio Mirror Linea preamp for $3K that replaced my $12K reference grade preamp. Vlad is great to work with and stands behind his products 100%. Can’t say enough good things about Vlad and his products. https://www.audiomirror.com/product-page/45w-mono-blocks-set-class-a
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To be clear it was not my intention to argue semantics. I was just pointing out that tube amplifiers can be either single ended (SET and SEP) or push pull (PP). Furthermore PP can be class A or class A/B. Perhaps I interpreted your post incorrectly. But it seemed to suggest only class A/B amongst non SET amplifiers. I was attempting to supply clarification. For the record, I am also an advocate of SET amplifiers and an extremely happy long term owner of 300b mono blocks. I concur with your sonic assessment of SET with appropriate speaker pairing. Charles |
The Octave v70 SE is excellent. Here’s a review fyi… https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/423-octave-audio-v-70-se-integrated- There’s one used available now that’d save you mucho $$$… Another good one to look into is the Audio Hungary A50i. Best of luck. |
@charles1dad I don’t want to argue semantics and even yield that you are probably correct in the way you define it. (pentode vs ultralinear). but to me the sound isn’t that much different between them. I recommend the simple, single output tube per channel, directly heated triode, single ended, tube amp to get the nimble, crystal clear, and dynamic sound we chase. But you have to have speakers that are compatible. BTW, I own an excellent example of the pentode push-pull amp that sounds excellent. I'll be getting rid of it in favor of the SET I prefer. Jerry |
As touched on by @laynes: When considering your budget for a tube amp I think you should be aware of possible extra costs for new/old tubes. When you go to your limit with the amp itself but soon find that new 300Bs would be something then that´s serious extra costs. |
The fundamental distinction is SET/SEP and push-pull tube amplifiers. Push-pull can be class AB but also pure class A as well. SET (DHT) SEP (Pentode) are class A by default. For example, the tube push pull amplifiers I had suggested earlier are class A circuits. Granted that class AB is the more common circuit approach. Charles |
Laynes, I have not ventured into rolling, neither with the EVO 400 nor the Lampizator Atlantic DAC. I honestly can't think of one thing I'd change with the Lampi. With my system and ear, it still remains my favored DAC. Along with the Daedalus speakers, I have no curiosity to vary. I tried a bunch of DACs, and none had quite the magic of the Lampi, so leaving it alone. Thanks for the specific tube suggestions for the EVO. I would love to see that effect and do plan on exploring if I keep it, which I may do, and just add another amplifier for a different combo. |
OP, have you rolled your Evo 400? I'm assuming "yes" but if not, then I would start there. For me, it was like having a brand new amp. I went with KT-150s for power and Radio Techniques (highly rec) in the front two slots and Mazda Cliftes on the sides. I listen to mostly rock but also some jazz and electronic. |
Thanks Steve. Your Tannoys look impressive and you have a Decware amp I got in line for but gave up due to production times and bought the PrimaLuna instead. I am not ready to purchase a new amp quite yet, even a reduced-priced LTA (very tempting). If you haven't sold it in six months, I'd be ready to make an offer. Currently renovating an old farmhouse (with new music room) and am hemorrhaging $$ in several directions. I'd be willing to buy it later and hold on to the PrimaLuna as well but not yet... Thank you. -- Greg |
