@j-wall Not sure which country you’re in, because I think they’re only touring in the States ... but if you are in the US and can catch one of Les Claypool and Sean Lennon and co. covering Animals from cover to cover on this little summer tour they're currently doing. Cuz it's like Wow cool. I saw it two weeks ago here in KC and it splattered my brains all over the place. : )
They each embued the material with their own masterful touch, staying real close to the original material in a way that it seemed very original. As my friend Martha that I took with me said: they all seemed so connected with each other, the way they played. Dude, it was incredible.
I was very fortunate someone gave me a heads up on the show. Do yourself a favor and go, if you can.
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I wish they would release both Meddle and Atom Heart Mother on SACD.
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Happy to see this not devolving into chaos and spitefulness so far. As a younger lad, Animals is the only Floyd album that grabbed me. But Meddle is the one I always go to because of the sonic scapes. I should probably read more of their lyrics.
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Rog getting up to mischief again......
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@12many Sounds like you've been listening to "Wish You Were Here".
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as I sit in my house build by a mega corp, running my AC (made by a mega corp), with electricity (made by a mega corp), on my fancy computer (made by a mega corp) or phone (made by a mega corp) on an operating system (made by a mega corp) to discuss music that I stream over a network (made by a mega corp) with high tech auido equipment (made or R&D'd by a mega corp) in a country defended by high tech equipment (made by a mega corp).
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@curiousjim +1 What a killer song, and boy oh boy, ist hat sentiment on the money right now, or what?
I think anyone who was around back in the early 70's when they played it on FM radio is probably singing the refrain in their head right now. Great memories from a truly bygone era.
Are we fortunate we got to be there, or what?!?
Thanks, I need that. So good to be grateful.
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@nickofwimbledon Our Beloved Revolutionary Sweetheart … what a gem!
if you can believe this … I say it that way b/c it’s almost surreal now, given how much things’ve changed in the world.
But back in the day … it was the mid 80’s, I’m sure … ‘86 is standing out in my head, but would have to check because it’s kind of blurry, at my age. : )
This took place in KC, but an FM radio station in Lawrence KS, which is a real cool college town right outside of KC was having a promotion for a radio station in Lawrence, as I recall it was 106.5 can’t remember the call letters. The promotion lasted all summer long, and included various acts, including the Indigo Girls … but I got to see Camper Van Beethoven “live” at a real cool club here in KC called Mississippi Nights for $1.06. Not Joking. The promotion was that they sold tickets to some of the hot college radio acts for a dollar and six cents.
Got to see the Indigo Girls perform in a very small club called The Grand Emporium. Brings back some great memories!
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‘The Revolution Will Not Be Televised’ and ‘Whitey’s On The Moon’ grabbed me as a schoolboy, but then so did ‘Mississippi Goddamn’ by Nina Simone and ‘When I Win The Lottery’ by Camper Van Beethoven.
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@nickofwimbledon What an insightful post. Care to name a GSH song to illustrate what you’re talking about?
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@lordmelton is dead right, though it’s obscure knowledge for those on here below about 50, and/ or those in the USA. The comments above about the dangers of pessimism, or perhaps cynicism, will ring a bell for those who have followed Mr. waters and his more recent diversions.
FWIW - and feel free to shoot me down if any of this looks irrelevant or uncalled for…
Animals is imho a great album with pithy and poignant lyrics, but it is worth remembering the context of its creation.
As for the US-specific comments above, I feel unqualified or poorly qualified to comment by comparison with most here for obvious reasons - I have lived most of my life within a few miles of the site on the album cover.
Over here, we have much less chance of being shot, especially in schools or by the police, more chance of free healthcare doing the job, slightly less obvious success for the extremes of corporate greed and other ills discussed on Animals, a lot less impinging of self-righteous zealotry and in particular supposedly religious extremism on mainstream life.
However, most of the ills mentioned above by those in the USA about their home are pretty universal and permanent. I’d argue that noticing them about the USA probably shows that that is where you are, so it’s about you as well as the country. In much the same way, noticing the current parlous state of the world/ society usually tells the rest of us a little about said state and more about the age and reading habits of the speaker.
As for musicians successfully commenting on the ills of the world, we should give an honourable mention surely to your own Gil Scott-Heron. His dad may have been a footballer for Celtic in Glasgow, but GSH (among others of course) explained to a lot of the rest of the world some of the things about the USA at the time that we just didn’t see on TV. And doing so may have contributed to his being about as cheerful in later life as Roger Waters.
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@tylermunns no worries, communication can easily become ambiguous, especially on such a wild subject
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@grislybutter I understand.
You’re completely correct in terms of mental health, i.e. being grateful for what one has.
I’m sorry for having a defensive tone in my response to you.
Personally, I consider it a delicate balance (one I would never claim to have mastered) one strikes in being…I dunno…”good” or whatever…between being grateful for what one has and being clear-eyed about areas that need improvement.
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@tylermunns I think you misunderstood my comment. I didn't mean to invalidate or challenge your statements, I agreed with them. But I don't think perspective hurts. It's helpful to appreciate what we have here.
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@grislybutter Well, I could imagine in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first.
I don’t live in other countries; don’t know ‘em, can’t vouch for ‘em.
I live in this one.
I don’t think my ideas (or anyone’s) are invalidated by the existence of less desirable conditions elsewhere.
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@tylermunns imagine how bad it is other countries, the US is far from the worst as far as health care, human rights and corruption go
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Jeremiah was a bullfrog,
he was a good friend of mine,
I never understood a single word he said,
but I helped him drink his wine.
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I can still conjure up my days of youth when I listened to the music for the music and not the message. The tipping point for me when I started listening to the message in a song happened the day I was educated on ZZ Top’s pearl neckless.
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Big man pig man, ha ha charade you are. You well heeled big wheel, ha ha charade you are.
What’s not to like?
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I like Animals a lot better than Wish You Were Here and the Wall... Dark Side unfortunately is overproduced, imo....
so, Animals holds up for me.
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(The) Pink Floyd were certainly aware and in-tune with past/current events. The band nailed "it" with back-to-back Classics, Animals and The Wall. In 2023, those messages are loud and clear.
Happy Listening!
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I've friends (as we all do) on both sides of the political trenches, and they both believe they are right. From who makes a good and honest president to whether it is fair to have universal healthcare. Their kids echo their parents' sentiments.
How to deal with it?
Teach your children well.
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@tylermunns Cool song.
@carlsbad2 @gimmer I used to be an optimist … and have actively tried to be one pretty much my entire life. And I believe it served me well … mostly, helping me keep my focus where it belonged so I could accomplish the things I had set out to accomplish. I think it’s a good approach to life, but I have to say, I’ve learned to be more of a realist. Considering that it’s come out that we’re being lied to by sone of our supposed leaders, I think that’s a more effective approach these days.
Care to suggest a song to represent the times?
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“Wake Up Everybody” by Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes.
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@carlsbad2
I just bought a bottle of wine called "Pessimist"
Quote on the back "A Pessimist is never disappointed." I would say that for one reason or another I have mostly been a pessimist in my life. I am usually correct, but never happy for being correct.
I love the album.
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@tylermunns All good points. I bet you raised a couple of good humans. 😉
Care to name a name a song that expresses something close to that sentiment?
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How to deal with it?
Teach your children well.
Teach them that respect, personal responsibility, compassion and empathy for all life is more important than being another white-collar capitalist.
Education is paramount.
Teach them that “education” and “university” are not necessarily synonymous.
College is not the be-all-end-all, but being stupid is a deal-breaker.
Reinforce the positive behaviors in kids with positive reinforcement.
Stop adhering to archaic, counter-productive notions of “constant punishment = reduction of undesirable behavior.” News flash: it doesn’t. Just like attending to the behaviors of adult trolls (be they professional or amateur) reinforces the trolling behavior, constant negative reinforcement of attention-seeking behavior in kids does the same; reinforces it.
I’m not saying eliminate boundaries and rules. The opposite.
Be clear what the boundaries and rules are, and be consistent in holding kids accountable to them. That means holding yourself accountable and not giving in to tantrums and remaining consistent and treating a kid as though you expect them to be good; not the other way around.
Don’t be these modern parents who behave as though asserting boundaries, saying, “no,” and saying, “I will not drop everything immediately to satisfy your whim right now” is tantamount to spirit-crushing child abuse.
It’s not.
If a kid learns that engaging in undesirable behaviors elicits rewards, they will keep engaging in undesirable behavior.
If a kid is positively reinforced when they engage in desirable behaviors, they will keep engaging in desirable behaviors.
Treating a child with respect and with the presumption that they will be good doesn’t mean never praising them when they do good stuff.
Praise them.
Respect that every kid is good at something, and reinforce those proclivities instead of forcing some other irrelevant lifestyle on them.
Vote for people that actually want to improve public education, not literally destroy it by literally telling teachers they can’t teach (unconscionable) and punishing teachers who merely want to teach kids facts and truth.
If a candidate advocates handcuffing educators and punishing them for educating kids, and uses rhetoric that demonizes educators, don’t vote for them.
Vote for people who have a legitimate record of action to improve the lives of working people, have minimal instances in their political career where they sided with corporate interests instead, and express sincere intentions to reform education, health care, the impunity with which corporations can go on destroying the planet, working conditions for blue-collar jobs, and generally express actual compassion and empathy for life on Earth.
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@larsman +1
That’s a really great lyric … and the groove that it’s attached to is so beautiful.
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@tylermunns Dude, you nailed it …
I love that we got far enough on this thread that that perspective came out …
Maybe it would be fun to start another thread on how best ti deal with it, as a people that’ve been so affected by the situation …
Or, maybe it would be more fun to keep this one going, so the conversation can continue to evolve into something even bigger …
I’d like to hear what you guys (and gals) have to say on that subject, by mentioning a fav song that speaks to what you’re proposing, and explaining why, if needed.
I’m gonna kick it off by saying Chocolate City by Parliament slash Funkadelic …
Please keep the conversation civil so the thread doesn’t get shut down by the moderators. It’s OK to express something kind of out there, just keep it G rated enough, the way you present it …
Chocolate City being my example.
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@larsman Great line.
The relevance of the album’s ideas to our current state of affairs:
Selfishness, greed, entitlement, and a lack of respect for life obviously define the Western World today.
- corporate dominance at the expense of human dignity
- crushing and punishing the poor
- inhumane work/living/housing conditions
- lack of health care
- prioritizing the power of the NRA over the rights of children to attend school without being mass murdered.
- prioritizing the wealth of a tiny fraction of Earth’s population (oil companies) over addressing the fact that the entire human race may not be able to live on Earth a few hundred years from now
Not a lot of respect for life here.
- prioritizing the wealth of Tech Bros over addressing the abominable conditions facing millions of poor people
- prioritizing the wealth of universities and capitulating to the entitlement of their customers (formerly known as students) over actually educating the population
- tribal behavior that punishes any person in draconian fashion who speaks in any way remotely outside of a narrow dogmatic corridor of language/thought (this goes for both sides of the aisle), i.e., “just shut up and be a sheep like the rest of us, and you won’t get hurt”
Yeah, I think a lot of the stuff is just as relevant now as ever.
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"And it's too late to lose the weight you used to need to throw around...." - always loved that line....
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The conceptual roles of Dogs, sheep and pigs is a pretty cynical yet powerful analogy for the dark model of human civilization these days and pretty much always.
Think yin/yang. There is a dark and bright side to everything and we all get choose how we play the game. Star Wars took that concept and brought it home for many.
Loved “Animals” when it came out and it has aged well.
I’m a dog lover. Pigs ain’t kosher….not for me. Sheep are fine down on the farm and just want to be left alone
Loved “Animals” when it came out and it has aged well.
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The link to Animal Farm is hardly tenuous at best, the only common denominator is animals. There is absolutely no link to Lord of the Flies.
Animals is seething with hate and misplaced trust after Floyd were scammed and forced to become tax-exiles, after being the unwilling victims of a complex scam perpetrated by the venture capitalists Norton Warburg, run by Andrew Warburg.
Basically it's about losing one's faith in human nature "and the people that you lie to, when they turn their back on you, you'll get the chance to put the knife in".
Animals also reflects the band's despondency with the majority of the population that just - suck it up - Sheep.
Whitehouse is not "The White House" but a fervent morality campaigner of the day in Britain - Mary Whitehouse.
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@deadhead1000
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
--Robert Heinlein
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@deadhead1000 not looking for hilarity ... just a light hearted take on how our current state of affairs in the US for sure, but also worldwide.
It is, indeed, a bit like Animal Farm by the late, great George Orwell. It's taken me a bit, but yeah, for sure I'm seeing it unfold right before my very eyes.
So many great lyrics on the album, that work so well with their music.
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Great Album, but it's partly a musical interpretation of Animal Farm by George Orwell, which was published in 1945. Which, as stated on Wikipedia, is based on events of the Spanish Civil war 1936, and the 1917 Russian revolution. So anywhere from ~89 to ~116 years ago. There's also The Lord of the Flies published 1954 which has a similar theme . So what is the statement?
I was optimistic during the 1960's and 70's (which were much harder then today to be optimistic) and I still am. My father lived through the 1930's and 1940's, which were even harder to be optimistic. Better to be optimistic then to live being scared all the time of change and the future. You cannot stop either, although some people have always tried to stop it (I am referring to the Industrial Revolution mostly). The latest fear is AI. It's always something. Can't live your life that way. That's not living, it's basically slowly dying.
Only thing that got me depressed lately was when John Prine died for no good reason. Luckily we still have his music. Apologies if this isn't hilarious.
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Not sure any music is as relevant as the musicians intend, or hope. Great album and solid lyrics though.
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