Ethernet cable for music streaming

Ethernet cables won't make any difference. I'd be looking at the DAC. Or change the streamer, maybe borrow some other model. See if it makes a difference. Perhaps CPU overheats or something.

Oops--small error in the above post: meant to say Audience AU24SE (not 25 'cause there is no such thing) cables. Can't edit anything older than 30 minutes, apparently. 

OP here--let’s clear a few things up. To begin with, I am very happy with my amplification and speakers. Other digital media (CDs, DVDs, and TV streaming--I use the same system for everything) sound very good indeed.

Here’s my system:

Modwright KWI 200 integrated

Ryan R610 bookshelf speakers/REL S/2 sub

Cambridge Audio CXU (their long discontinued universal disc player)

Sonnet Morpheus DAC

Topping A90 D headphone amp/LSA HP2 Ultra headphones

Furman Elite power conditioner/Core Power Technology Deep Core 1800

Cables by Audience (AU25SE for speakers and RCA interconnect), Morrow, and Cerious Technologies.

Prior to owning the PulseMini I had a Sonnet Hermes streamer which exhibited exactly the same issues, which is why I thought the Innuos streamer might be a step up the ladder.

drewportland: thanks for sharing your experience with this combination. I do have the I2S module for the Morpheus DAC and used it with the Hermes, but now I'm  using the USB module because the PulseMini doesn’t have an ethernet ouptut and in any case, doesn’t support the I2S protocol.

Mahler123: your observation about hearing is indeed pertinent.I flatter myself that even at my advanced age (let’s just say over 65) my hearing is still pretty good, though not without some small reduction of high-frequency acuity.

I’ll consider taking another (expensive) step up the ladder only after I think I’ve exhausted all the available alternatives.

While some parts of the frequency range sound really good (bass, mid-bass, lower mids, e.g.), when we get to the range where vocals live and above, the sound loses fidelity and definition. Things sound fuzzy and muddled, especially if the music is complex or dense. Loud orchestral passages can be really unpleasant to listen to.

Could be a failing amp....could be bad speakers, etc

How did you narrow it down to ethernet cables and LPSs?

I’m new to this thread, but has the OP tried experimenting with a different DAC and/or different streamer?  If he was that unhappy as he describes in the initial post I am skeptical that a change in Ethernet cabling or power supply are going to solve this.  His subsequent posts in the thread sound like he is trying to convince himself that each tweak has done something positive (confirmation bias).

  I am assuming that prior to purchasing the PulseMini he was happy with his speakers and amplifiers.  If he has been changing those while trying to improve the streamer, then he really is deep in the rabbit hole.

  Finally, and I am not being snarky in suggesting this, there is the issue of his hearing.  Most of us are at an age where high frequency loss is common, and if there are some idiosyncratic losses just under the highest frequencies, then that may also cause his issues.

  I would start by trying to demo another streamer/DAC in his system, just to see if that solves everything 

I had a Morpheus DAC and it sounds much better with an I2S interface from the streamer vs USB. I started out with a MAC Mini for my streamer going USB to the Morpheus. I then read where the Morpheus sounds best with I2S input. I bought the I2S module for the DAC snd a Hermes streamer and it was a very nice upgrade in SQ. I've since upgraded to the Pasithea and have kept the Hermes. Something else  that made a nice improvement was getting a Cardas XLR to RCA adapter from the DAC, The DAC has a lower noise floor when using balanced output. All the other suggestions regarding ethernet from your router apply as well. However you will not get the full benefit from the upstream changes without an I2S interface into your DAC. 

For $300 I'd give SmoothLan Network Filter a go and send it back if it doesn't help. 

+1 @macg19.  Given the very positive results several have gotten with this and in your situation with a long Ethernet run I’d think this would be well worth a try. 

That maybe the case, but the OP thinks his Innuos is underperforming due to networking / long ethernet cables etc. 

No suggestion he is looking to upgrade his Innuos. And if there is an issue with the feed into the streamer, a new streamer may also underperform.

YMMV but I've done very well getting the most out of my Node N130 by adding an LPS, good cables, a decent tube DAC and now the SmoothLan and everything made a real difference (I only stream and listen to Qobuz and SXM Radio, but primary source is vinyl). Super happy with SQ. I'm looking at more than double the investment to best it. Which I will at some point but low priority.

If the OP does have budget and  the appetite for a new streamer, I would not buy anything that I could not return after an in-home trial given his current situation.

That will be 2 cents please.

I second @ghdprentice nothing will have as big of an impact as a streamer or a dac upgrade or both. All the tweaks like switches, converters, LPS, filters…that’s pretty much just lipstick on a pig. Waste of time, money and space.

For $300 I'd give SmoothLan Network Filter a go and send it back if it doesn't help. 

Ozzy started on thread on SmoothLan here

I just got mine today, and I didn't have a problem to solve (that I knew of). Mine will not be going back. I don't know how it works but the change was instant and not subtle. 

I've tried 2 other inline filters: EverStar and iFi LAN filter and they did nothing. (no surprise, and no risk with Amazon)

My guess is those with high end switches, external clocks and very high end streamer/DACs would not benefit as much but I dont have any of those things.

System details in my profile.

Op,

I have not re-read the thread…. But getting better sound at this point would most easily be done by getting a better streamer. The better the streamer the better the sound… it makes up for and problems with the network. I recommend an Aurrender… the best you can afford. My rule of thumb is that carefully chosen $ Streamer = $ DAC = $Preamp = $ amp. In my system the streamer is about 20% more than the DAC and preamp and is simply stunning.

Were you able to narrow the issue to networking?  I'd suggest eliminating the rest of your chain before driving yourself crazy.  If you have a laptop, you can buy a USB-C Ethernet adapter to help run diagnostics.  You can also look up your internet modem, find the login and check logs then work downtream.  I recently had to do this and discovered the issue was with my exterior connection coming into the house, which was causing enough noise to causing odd slowdowns and random internet issues.

Also, be careful of running ethernet next to power.  It's fairly susceptible to EMI interference.

Here's a guideline:  Cable Guidelines for Data Integrity

Update:

Well, this all took a while to accomplish, but I upgraded the power supply to the one from Small Green Computer, and it did make some difference. However, there was still some way to go before all the issues were solved. 3 days ago I changed the old CAT5 that ran from the router to the network switch with a 45 ft. run of Blue Jeans Cable CAT6a now going directly to the streamer. (The Netgear network switch is now consigned specifically to the TV and Roku box via a separate run of Blue Jeans Cable CAT6.) This has resulted in a significant improvement over the streamer’s previous performance, (Innuos PulseMini, just to remind you) though I STILL think there’s room for improvement. Perhaps I’ll look into replacing the fuse in the LPS as suggested by jerrybj.

All that said, I have reached a point where I’m actually enjoying listening to the streamer but I have a nagging suspicion that further improvement may only be accomplished by upgrading to a much more expensive one which, for now, just isn’t in the budget.

Thanks, jerrybj, for this helpful info. I've ordered the Small Green Computer 12v LPS, and we'll see how that goes when it arrives. Meanwhile, I discovered that my previous network switch was probably a bottleneck in the stream, as it was a bit old and topped out at 100 Mbps. I bought a new Negear one that boasts 1 Gps, and it has (I think) helped a bit. Next, I'm going to replace the old CAT5 cable that runs from the router to the switch with CAT6a. I can actually run that as a dedicated line straight to the streamer, and a separate one to the Netgear switch that connects to the TV and the Roku box which seem to work just fine as it is. All of this accomplished, it SHOULD improve things with the streamer, but I'll post the results when it's all done and we see what we've got.

@cooper52

Innuos website recommends 12v 5A. The Pulse Mini accepts a wide range of LPS voltages though. I’m not sure the amperage required if the LPS has a voltage other than 12v. Innuos would probably be keen to advise you on this.

If you get a 12v LPS with a higher amperage, it will not damage your streamer. The streamer will take what it needs, so to speak.

When you do purchase your power supply, I’m a fuse believer. Something like a HiFi Tuning Supreme would work well. Also a decent DC cable, if not already supplied. Ghent Audio has some reasonably priced cables.

I was curious what network switch you have? If it’s just a standard computer switch, it’s possible it is draining life out of your system.

You could perhaps try DXE Iso Plus at each end of your long run of ethernet cable. Again reasonably priced, but effective.

Some people like the iFi power supplies, but I’ve read lots saying there is little to no improvement in their system.

The Small Green Computer 12V / 100W Linear Power Supply delivers 8 Amps (Amps = Watts/Volts)

So, before jumping in and buying an LPS for this Pulse Mini, I’d like to rely, once more, on the expertise of those of you who have offered such helpful advice. The specs for the Taiwanese switching power supply that came with the streamer are: DC output 12V, 5.0A. The 12V output is easy to match with the iFi and Small Green Computer LPS’s, but what about the amperage? SGC is a bit elliptical about this on their website, though they do seem to indicate that their 12V LPS would deliver 8A max (if I'm reading it right), which would be plenty for the streamer. iFi, however, rates theirs at 12V, 4A and I’m not sure if this would be a problem. Similarly, does the output voltage have to match exactly, or would a higher voltage output still work? Sorry, I’m not very knowledgeable about this stuff, so I’d be very grateful for your help. Many thanks!

You might consider switching to fiber ethernet.  You need a pair of converters and whatever length of optical cable you need.  You could convert the longer run, or you could do a local conversion just from the switcher to the streamer.  It does add a bit of clutter but it can smooth out the sound quite a bit.  It's not very expensive, maybe $150 to implement.

cooper52

05-07-2024 4:15am

…

I'm not getting the sound quality from my Innuos PulseMini streamer that I think it's capable of and I've never been able to put my finger on what the weak link in my system is.

…

That’s probably not the firmest stance for avoiding the pitfalls of upgraditis.

Thanks to all for the very helpful responses. Of course, now I'll have to figure out which remedy to try first, and I'm leaning in the direction of upgraded LPS and wi-fi extender. I see that Small Green Computer offers a 12v power supply at a reasonable price that will almost certainly be better than the Chinese one that came with the Innuos streamer. I'm trying to keep this budget in line with the value of the component(s) in question, so spending kilobucks (I think I just made that word up) on any of this doesn't make sense to me. 

I'll post my results--or lack of results--as thing progress. 

For extender I use a tp link AX3000, it’s 99 from Amazon. Works great, it’s in my upstairs loft and the router is in my basement. Great strong reception it has one out for Ethernet cable. Simple set up. 

Forgot to mention another thing to try would be to get a Wi-Fi extender or Mesh system....

I need to try this. I have read this a few times over the past while. 

About a year ago I removed the router from my hi fi room to eliminate unnecessary wifi waves near the components (ethernet cable connection to the streamers, not wifi), and replaced it to the upper floor of the house. But then thought I am using an iphone as a remote controller in the room anyway, and of course there are hundreds of frequencies of electromagnetic interference travelling through our rooms, components and brains continuously all the time, so unless one wanted to build a hifi room inside a faraday cage, and not use wifi controllers, I think the point is mute. 

Therefore, there should be no difference having an auxillary wifi extender, (or a sub-router essentially?) somewhat near the hifi > sotm ethernet > streamer, instead of the 50' long piece from the upstairs router into the etherregen > sotm > streamer, and comparing that. Then comparing inserting the etherregen, or Cisco switch, between extender and streamer. Hmmm. 

Any suggestions for extender models/brands? 

Post Script

Adding another quality build external linear power supply to the audiophile switch above to replace the cheap OEM supplied wall wort,, had a second similar streaming performance upgrade as adding a LPS to the streamer/ DAC itself.

@soix

@ghdprentice

+2 …..

A upgrade to a linear power supply is a meaningful and important performance upgrade compared to a switch power supply in any case,….and significantly over the OEM throw-in crap POS wall wart supplied with the unit

The insertion of a Wi-Fi extender is a cheap no-brainer.

I was initially a hard skeptic of the audiophile network switch option too. Fortunately , I watched the following YouTube review ( first of several by Hans) , that encouraged me to finally set aside my bias, and give a SILENT ANGEL network switch a try.

In brief , yes, a further audio improvement was here with

- a blacker background,

- It introduced added lifting of an ethereal “veil” from streaming “ jitter” and “noise” ,

- along with further incremental eliminations of streaming digital “edge” / “brightness’ .

it is beyond my pay grade to explain the engineering tech reasons why ,

NOTE: As Hans points out in his reviews, the audio streaming benefits from audiophile grade network switches are very system dependent:

- they are clear and unambiguous in his “A” reference system, and progressively somewhat less as he steps down into his “B” and “C” systems.

He has several YouTube reviews of the different network switch contenders, = choose wisely

May want to give an Etheregen switch a try? 30 day money back guarantee. Most have found it "smoothes" out their streaming sound by removing hash which enables you to hear a little better resolution from a blacker background. Not sure if that is the same as removing the "fuzzyness and muddled-ness". Probably not quite as good as the already mentioned passive Network acoustics filters, I have't tried one of those yet, but less than half the price also. I have a Plixir LPS on my etherregen.

For sure a short run with a high end ethernet cable made (will make) a smaller difference in sq also, but that is not the best place to start (probably). 

It all matters, tackle the digital stream one notch at a time. You need to try things and see what makes a difference in your system to your ears. 

missed it so I’ll go back and second @soix on a power supply recommendation. I would do that plus a nice power cord before playing with any Ethernet related tweaks. 

While I don’t think it will solve the problem, I would upgrade the Ethernet run regardless to Cat 6a. Not a big investment, Blue Jeans makes a nice product at custom length. That is unless you go the Wi-Fi extender route which is viable. 
 

You do not mention what kind of USB cable you are using, this might be something to investigate as well. 

A few things I've done. Some cheapish, some pricey.

Upgraded my router from the one supplied by my internet provider.

LPS of my modem and router. Plixir and FiiO. Changed the fuses on these as well.

Bought a wifi extender. Triode Wire Labs Freedom ethernet cables to switch and streamer from this.

A Puritan PSM156 and Ground City.

A Stack Audio SmoothLan, and Pink Faun Lan Isolator.

A Teddy Pardo LPS on my streamer, with upgraded fuse.

An ISO Regen (reclocks the USB from my streamer).

Black Ravioli Big Pads under my amp/Dac/DDC/streamer.

This has been a process since late 2021.

@cooper52 -

I am going to second the recommendations you have gotten from audphile1 and soix. I'll add one more -- have you looked into Network Acoustics ethernet filters? 

David

What’s your budget? If you are going from one cheap Ethernet cable to another, I would say it ain’t worth it. Here’s my recommendation….try iFi LAN iSilencer.
If you want to explore better cables, you will need either the mesh network, extender or another switch to have a short run of good cable into your streamer. But…the iFi thingy can bring a slight but audible improvement. Amazon has it. You can return it if it does nothing. I use one with my Aurender N200.

@soix 

+1 lps… and extender. 

Forgot to mention another thing to try would be to get a Wi-Fi extender or Mesh system and run a much shorter, higher-quality Ethernet cable from that to the streamer. It’s not too expensive, and it may be an improvement over using a long run of lower-quality cable and an additional switch. Just another option to consider.

Before spending $$$ on an Ethernet cable I’d get an external linear power supply for the Innuos — something like a Teddy Pardo LPS would be fine for around $400 and don’t need to spend more than double on the Innuos LPS IMHO.  Just my $0.02 FWIW.