Equalizer in a Hi Fi system

“I have a very fragile ego. I'm going to go cry in a glass of Tequila.”

😂 hilarious, Mike

“As for your assessment of Skyline vs. PEQ1... I very much agree about the superior flexibility of the PEQ1's design... I just wish my unit had sounded better”

based on your earlier description of your PEQ-1 experience, I am fairly sure you got a bad unit, @mirolab 

“Do your 'custom' cables have the ground connected from end to end?”

Cardas did 4 of them for 1000 dollars. I sure hope they grounded them properly. They are completely sonically transparent. I now know this because when I had the Skyline in the Bryston tape loop on ‘bypass,’ which you’ve stated is a true hardwire bypass, I could not hear any difference at all A-B ing with tape loop in and out. They are great cables

The RME ADI-2 has full DSP processing with Bass, Treble, Loudness, 5 Band Parametric EQ, and Crossfeed.  Has anyone found this to be a good solution for improving their SQ?  It comes with both a remote and an app to allow control all of its functions with remote software.

I know many have tried this. I myself have not. Generally hear mixed to favorable through the grapevine. Not having heard the MQ112 either, I’d bet good money the MQ112 sounds alot more musical and natural than the RME EQ suite

Traditional analog equalization is somewhat dated and very limited 20th century technology. 😉

But, I will be attempting Room correction using Roon DSP shortly. Will be using Room EQ Wizard software to create convolution filters for several rooms. Currently use similar 3-rd party filters with Roon and headphones and the results are a big leap forward that would be costly otherwise.

Digital convolution filters can be thought off as traditional analog equalization on steroids. Roon Room Correction

Hate to disagree. I’ve commented extensively on this pages ago. My Charter Oak PEQ1 I’ve directly compared against Roon DSP using some digital shelf or bells in bass and treble regions. It DIDNT COME CLOSE to the SQ of the 2700 dollar analog piece. I have done this already previously in the thread. Am not going to repeat again here. Notch filtering and room correction digital better. Tone shaping analog better. I intend to try @mijostyn DEQX though, to be sure. That’s a summary. There are PAGES of debate previously 

@tlcocks I have not knew anyone with more knowledge about equalizers. As u know I have the MQ112 I really wish that u could demo it sometime and tell him what you think of it compared to the other 3 that you love. I also really think u owe it yourself to demo the MQ112. There is also a great utube video of it from where I purchased it from Ski Fi audio in Glen Rock NJ. If u haven’t already watched it I encourage you to see it. I really would love to hear your professional opinion on it. 

Thanks @tattooedtrackman , alas I am not a professional. Just an avid listener and passionate tweaking audiophile. I may know a lot about how they sound in my home, but @mirolab is the professional with his own studio. He’s heard more than me. Both analog and digital. And @mijostyn is pretty well dialed in on digital post playback. I’m just a guy who’s lucky enough to have found a very special piece of hardware in the Charter Oak. It’s sound quality surpasses some peers costing twice as much. 
But yes, I want to hear and learn all. And I will make it a point to hear your MQ112, @mijostyn ’s DEQX, and last but not least the BACCH SP. 

@tattooedtrackman , I am stoked that you love your MQ112. Don’t be afraid to laud its praises repeatedly here. Because there’s a strong tide we’re swimming against of all digital EQ lovers who have never or not recently tried a high end analog piece and they simply don’t know what beautiful sound they are missing. The more of us who speak out, the more will try. 

@tlcocks Gotcha. + Really looking forward to hearing your impressions with the MQ112. 

Pretty much every track we ever listen to gets run through something like this dude before we ever hear it.  So why would a little EQ in the home listening room upset any purists?

I don't get it.

@ltmandella   I felt the same way as all the other pursuits, because I only wanted to hear the very best sound that my equipment were producing. And I thought that any other source adding to it would degrade the performance of my gear. JMO. 

Understood.  Any crappy component in the signal path can possibly do more harm than good. 

But then again, compared to the distortion in frequency response from speakers and room modes, seems like at least room correction done properly would be big improvement.  I have heard a lot of folks mention they do room correction and I cannot remember any of them less than seriously happy with the improvement.

I don't know for sure but I expect that most of those mix boards nowadays used in music production are op amp based electronics. And no track is getting to our systems without going through those...

Not all music is fabricated in studio...

I listen classical and jazz and Persian and Indian mostly and a bit of Africa ...

i cannot support most commercial and rock pop and anything too much artificial ...

i use analog tone control , even EQ for my headphone optimization Harman curve ...

I prefer acoustic instrument as a piano with a well done recorded timbre by a talented sound engineer ...

Studio music created by mixing , no thanks ...

I would have tinnitus ...

Music heal or kill say my body to my brain ...My heart listen ...

Pretty much every track we ever listen to gets run through something like this dude before we ever hear it. So why would a little EQ in the home listening room upset any purists?

I don’t get it.

I have 6 band on my Cello Palette and it is 🤌🏼

Oh wow. The legendary Cello Palette. NICE

@au_lait , care to tell our digital EQ lovers here a little more about the sonics of the CP?

The CP is excellent. 

@au_lait   The CP is also a preamp? Sounds really good but what if u have no use to use it as also a preamp. Is it still worth the very high used price ? 

I’ve never heard one. But I would venture to say yes, from what I do know. It’s legendary. Many in recording and hi fi circles consider it a landmark piece and a benchmark to which units over the years have been compared. Its sonics are from Mark Levinson. Recommend again the Cello Palette Stereophile review from yester year. Even today the article’s arguments to EQ are compelling. I totally live and die by that theory. It’s a great read. Page 1 or 2 i referenced with a link. 

There are 2 Palettes (3 actually if you count the single input version) - the legendary and expensive Cello Audio Palette MIV and the more home-use version the Cello Palette preamp. If memory serves, the Stereophile article (read it moons ago) is for the consumer preamp and most of the studio engineer discussions refer to the MIV. Easiest visual distinction is the knobs and the size of the PSU, but the bands controlled are also different. The MIV has pots for 15hz, 120hz, 500hz, 2khz, 5khz and 25khz whereas the Palette preamp has pots for 20hz, 120hz, 500hz, 2khz, 5khz, 20khz – the latter is much more useful tbh as I’ve never really yearned to boost anything lower than 20hz or higher 20khz.

Most importantly, and what the article speaks about, is that not all recordings are the same - this is so important to me personally because I have very large variety of music that falls outside of what most audiophiles consider well produced, and I view all art as a spectrum like that. Some of the most amazing music I own is some of the worst produced, but there is an undeniable magic contained in there. Also, unless you’re listening to music in a vacuum, there is over a hundred years of advancement in the artform and while I have different cartridges and a couple amps that try to keep things somewhat "period-correct", there will never be gear that averages everything perfectly, and even if there was that’s probably not ideal for the margins of the spectrum. So, I find the Cello a very useful tool in accommodating my variety of listening, the key is to boost or cut things in moderation, a pinch more cymbal sizzle here, a pinch more guts in the stand up bass there, or very subtly taming a bit of glare. It is not a "loudness" switch.

In terms of sonics, I will say its bone-dry neutral verging on analytical, which can paint very vividly, but admittedly there are times where I do need something more forgiving and switch over to my tube pre. 

What I will say is a pain in the ass... is yes, maintenance. I had a DC issue on one channel that required some parts to repair, and as you can guess with Levinson, the parts are somewhat proprietary and unobtainable, Vishay was no help therefore I’ve been in over a year having to create a couple replacement parts. But that said, I scored mine for a very very good price so this repair isn’t hurting my soul too much.

Thanks @au_lait !  Awesome. Agree totally with that 20khz and not higher. Yes, the 50khz boost sounds good on my CO, but it’s too thin down lower in the audible frequencies. While I have no doubt that switch is the bomb in a mastering studio, I find the 20 kHz on my CO is the absolute BEST treble tone dial I’ve ever heard 

@au_lait  this quote from your post above :

I have very large variety of music that falls outside of what most audiophiles consider well produced, and I view all art as a spectrum like that. Some of the most amazing music I own is some of the worst produced, but there is an undeniable magic

Me too. I particularly enjoy live recordings and older recordings that benefit from a small tweak here and there to clean it up a bit.

Rush is my favorite band of all time. Many of their albums varied considerably in production quality. Most of them benefit massively from high end EQ. The better the EQ, the better the enjoyment!  It’s interesting. I’ve found that some of their hi res remasters are worse and sometimes better. The Redbook remaster of 2112 was a huge sonic improvement. The Metallica Black album remaster a big improvement too. Many remasters suck though. Yes production and remasters are so highly variable it’s nuts. I therefore cannot live without EQ. 

@tlcocks What does your system consist of ? I don’t see any posted photos ? Why ? 

I haven’t done all that at Audiogon yet. It’s all on Head Fi. For HP chain. Sorry I haven’t done it on Audiogon for my loudspeaker chain yet. But I discussed all my gear down to the cabling pages ago. I’ll find it and paste it here again. It’s in along narrative earlier in the thread. Be prepared…

Actually it’s all on page 3. See that page.

Highlights:

Auralic Aries streamer > Bryston B135 SST2 integrated amp with onboard DAC > Martin Logan Montage dipoles.  Transparent cabling. 
The Bryston has an unbalanced tape loop that is completely transparent. In it is contained the CO PEQ-1. They are mated with 4 Cardas Clear Sky RCA to XLR cables which are custom grounded by Cardas to provide full unity gain with every pro piece I’ve put in the loop with the one exception of the Skyline. 

For all you Peter Gabriel fans. His new release “I/o” at 24/96 FLAC on Qobuz is awesome as well as sonically a production treat as well. Nothing like hearing our favorite artists from yesteryear recorded today with all the saturation, richness , and fullness of the modern day’s studio’s capabilities. Real treat. Listening to this album on lunch break right now on my HEKse chain. Mind scrambling!

The track “playing for time” is about to make me cry, it sounds so beautiful. I love Peter Gabriel. Going on a PG binge for a bit!

Note saturation is EVERYTHING in hi fi. You cannot have resolution without note saturation. If your EQ implementation doesn’t allow the full note saturation of true bypass, it’s simply not good enough.  You also cannot have good dynamics and PRaT and transience without full saturation. 

@tlcocks   My bad. I did remember reading about your system on P 3 👍. Also I too love Peter Gabriel. Funny u mentioned it. I just bought his 2 cd hits and also saw this new I/O cd with 2 different mixes on 2 CDs. Bright side and dark side mix. 

I like bright side better 

@tlcocks Do u ever plan to demo the McIntosh MQ112 ? I would really love to hear your opinion on it. For now at least check out the video on u tube done by Fernando at Sky Fi audio. That’s also the place I went to hear it and buy it. 

I do indeed, when Ed at Audible Images gets one in. He said a few months away. If I can find another dealer, I’ll try sooner. I intend to demo MQ112, DEQX and BACCH. Will be after holidays for all though

I’ll check out the video as well

@tlcocks +1. It’s a very good video. Let me know what u think 🤔 

OMG. Ken in the video uses COOKING analogy to EQ ing like I did pages ago. That’s crazy. I SWEAR I didn’t get that from him!

He’s right on the money with volume affect. Less perceived bass at low volume 

Very interesting video. Good points wrt to volume, biamping, room correction and variability of recordings. 

Max distortion < 0.005. No degradation (cable dependent, of course)

@tlcocks Yep. I really enjoyed the video. And also the guy from McIntosh was in it with him. An hour about. 

@tattooedtrackman i have called almost all 26 dealers within 150 miles to try to get a listen to your MQ112. No one has it. Unless I travel to the NJ area I will not be able to listen anytime soon. Sorry. Will try later on when it’s more available. 

@tlcocks   Wow That’s strange. I guess I was lucky to have acquired one. And he only had one in stock and his demo. And there was someone coming in the following day to demo the MQ112. Most likely he would have bought it. He also said that he would be getting more in stock in Jan if mine was sold. 

SkyFi is a MAJOR showroom for McIntosh products. You are lucky you live near it. 

I’ve been saturating since 1962 👌🏻. I use a dbx 32 band EQ…sounds wonderful!  Transparent Gen 6 cabling and power cord doesn’t hurt of course !

Nice!

@mbmi , did you say you got a new MQ112?  If so, how is it?

I actually am picking one up today @ 2pm. Can't wait to hook it up and have a wonderful EQ weekend. I'll report back with impressions.

@mbmi Nice.  Love my MQ112. Can’t wait to hear your impressions of it.