Equalizer in a Hi Fi system

I quoted wrong paragraph. Sorry

“Using EQ effectively is usually MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE, and often times it is FREE, as it's built-in to nearly all DAPs. And EQs or EQ plugins are available for nearly all computer-based music playback software or network streamers.”

Please apply what I said previously to the ABOVE paragraph 

Many of the above mentioned examples in the quote will suck on the hi fi playback end.  BEWARE!  If you’re an audiophile you’re really gonna want stuff the caliber of which is used in a studio. Or you’ll be disappointed 

@lordrootman , what do you think about room and speaker correction with SOTA DSP first (get room physically as right as you can before, actually.  And speaker placement). Do all that first. Then would you say it’s ok to EQ tonally with high end analog gear?  Or is that too much?  
I have a good room I think, but haven’t DSP corrected speakers or room response yet. I just do analog EQ with a piece that I love and sounds absolutely sublime. Should I stop there, or try to do the DSP for speakers/ room too?  Your thoughts infinitely appreciated!

Off the topic of equalizers. But am listening to the early 80’s bought vinyl I have preserved ever since of Peter Gabriel’s Security. Great album. The sound is just so much more integrated and musical and real sounding than its digital counterpart, the latter of which side by side simply sounds like a fake copy. It’s really stunning. The timbre and note saturation and fullness of the recording on that original vinyl is SO MUCH MORE SATISFYING. It’s really not even close. 

Happy New Year all!  Over the weekend I did something I haven’t done in 10 years. I moved my speakers all around in terms of distance from front wall and toe in to see if the current longstanding setup is indeed the best. Spent hours trying different distances and toe ins. Indeed my room interacts best with my speakers from the perspective of the listening position exactly where they have been for 10 years. So I guess I got that right in the beginning 👍😊. Now, as setup, I hear appropriate image specificity without things shifting between left and right as tones change frequencies. Vocals are heard as dead center. Bass response is extremely linear and even to my ear without standing wave frequencies or null frequencies to my ear. I therefore do believe I have a reasonably good room and am hearing what I should from my loudspeakers. Not sure what DEQX could do to improve but still want to try. And still will travel soon to BACCH showroom across the state. Oh…and still got the hots for SPL PQ.  The looks. Love the red and layout of dials. Gorgeous piece. Have no idea if sounds better than my beloved CO’s. 

Happy new year and thanks for your interesting posts ...

We wait for your impressions for the BACCH ...

😊

 thanks tlcocks

No audiophile system is complete without EQ set by ear. It is possible to correct for deficiencies in acoustics, speakers, and hearing. Check out www.eq-guide.com

I have heard the BACCH. still traveling though and will give full report when I get home this evening 😊

I am going to be brief, because I’m tired. But the BACCH preamp is the real deal. It didn’t envelope with regular records as much as I thought it would. But it was something else with binaural Chesky recordings of voices and various sounds. However those recordings were impressive in their panning and sound field anyway even without the BACCH in circuit. For regular music it did a couple of things. It widened considerably the soundstage with the beginnings of a wrap around effect, but never really got behind you. Was nonetheless the less impressive and easily noticeable in vs out. It also seemed to open the music and the dynamics.  Kind of took a veil off to make everything sound better. This was a smaller change but still easily noticeable. Can I live without BACCH? Yes, because while it does things differently I get equal amounts of improvement/fun from my studio grade analog EQ. If I didn’t have that I’d probably be buying a BACCH preamp. Mine is a lot easier to use and a lot cheaper though at 2700 dollars 😊

Nonetheless impressive, sorry. Typo 

Thanks...

Very honest review and i believe you...

By the way i understand you , because i enjoy already a stunning soundfield with spatial qualities  to some relative level  as described by BACCH reviewers... ( my embeddings controls works well for me + modified speakers+mechanical crosstalk limitation)

But i want to buy the BACCH  to really achieve it to a really complete level...

But as you i can wait...😊

You review confirm my reading studies of it : this is the real deal...

I am going to be brief, because I’m tired. But the BACCH preamp is the real deal. It didn’t envelope with regular records as much as I thought it would. But it was something else with binaural Chesky recordings of voices and various sounds. However those recordings were impressive in their panning and sound field anyway even without the BACCH in circuit. For regular music it did a couple of things. It widened considerably the soundstage with the beginnings of a wrap around effect, but never really got behind you. Was nonetheless the less impressive and easily noticeable in vs out. It also seemed to open the music and the dynamics.  Kind of took a veil off to make everything sound better. This was a smaller change but still easily noticeable. Can I live without BACCH? Yes, because while it does things differently I get equal amounts of improvement/fun from my studio grade analog EQ. If I didn’t have that I’d probably be buying a BACCH preamp. Mine is a lot easier to use and a lot cheaper though at 2700 dollars 😊

Pink Floyd Money was one of the BACCH highlights. I’m listening to it now on my loudspeaker system, of course with Charter Oak PEQ1 analog EQ. The guitar l solo in the middle. I closed my eyes and the guitar is emanating from 2 feet left of my left speaker. EQ off and it’s more veiled and 1 foot left of my left speaker. AND I’m tone shaping bass and treble to my heart’s desire. I add more treble than usual to this album. It’s slightly dark. Yes, I prefer my setup to the BACCH any day. But…what if I had both?…

I just listened the same track right now...

Money of Pink Floyd...

No sophisticated EQ, only 3 tone controls on my cheap but good tube preamplifier ....

😊

Guess what ?

The guitar solo is almost beside me at my left out of the speakers and the soundfield encompass my listening position OUTSIDE of the speakers by right and left and almost behind me ...( in nearfield listening with my 150 bucks speakers heavily modified in a controlled acoustic corner with some crosstalk mechanical control too )

Morality :

EQ so good it is dont replace vibrations/resonance control, nor acoustic room disposition nor electrical noise level control nor in my case a good tube pre-amp and a good dac...EQ does not replace my job when i modified the rear porthole of my speakers and the tweeter waveguide and  EQ could not replace it at any price even with  yours ...

And you had listened the BACCH on another system not on yours...😁

Me too it seems listening Pink Floyd i can live WITHOUT the BACCH filters...

Tonight i listened my headphone K340 with a SPEAKER LIKE SOUND OUT OF MY HEAD...

The point is the BACCH or EQ will improve any system but will not replace the gear design not the acoustic room control nor compensate for the electrical noise floor level, EQ nor BACCH will not repair the damage done by uncontrolled speakers vibrations and resonance......

I doubt any EQ can replace the BACCH filters if we look at how work EQ and how work the BACCH filters... There is no relation they are completely different beast one is an acoustic revolution the other a useful tool ...

No EQ can compensate for the loss of spatial information by crosstalk in any stereo system at any price...

I dont need sophisticated EQ it seems listening Pink Floyd Money as you described ..

I need the BACCH... 😊

Pink Floyd Money was one of the BACCH highlights. I’m listening to it now on my loudspeaker system, of course with Charter Oak PEQ1 analog EQ. The guitar l solo in the middle. I closed my eyes and the guitar is emanating from 2 feet left of my left speaker. EQ off and it’s more veiled and 1 foot left of my left speaker. AND I’m tone shaping bass and treble to my heart’s desire. I add more treble than usual to this album. It’s slightly dark. Yes, I prefer my setup to the BACCH any day. But…what if I had both?…

When I purchased my system, I refused to be without EQ, specifically once I auditioned the Wavelet with my Legacy Focus XDs. I could not imagine not have control over poorly mixed recordings, being able to adjust all EQ, room correction, volume and subwoofer setting from my iPad anywhere in the house is absolutely the best feature of this system. 

@mbmi , did you ever get the MQ112?  I don’t remember seeing your follow up. 

@tlcocks +1 

Does @mbmi like it? The MQ 112?

@tlcocks I love it 👍

Oh sorry. Didn’t know @mbmi ​​​​@tattooedtrackman are one and the same. My bad!

@tlcocks if I can manage to successfully convert from XLR to RCA (preamp) I'm going to go for a pro model parametric eq.After installing an XLR from the dac to the Lokius and realizing a surprising upgrade in SQ I've been experimenting with XLR to RCA adapters and an XLR to RCA custom cables on the Lokius output. Either method works on bypass but really noisy when the unit is on.Next up is to try an Art Cleanbox Pro and hope that eliminates the noise. If not there is a passive converter that includes a ground lift to try -Radial Pro -Iso is the brand I could find.The reason I'm determined to try is because in bypass using the XLR to RCA cables the SQ took quite a leap up which I totally did not expect. It's just a cheap cable that all I'd hoped for was to get the signal through quietly.

  Yes I could just get a new preamp with balanced connections but I like what I have now so I'll continue experimenting for the time being. The last option is the MQ112 which requires a long day traveling back and forth. The downside of country living:-)The Lokius is a nice little unit but I'd like to find out first hand about broader overlap and fine tuning.

I have information:

XLR side, we short pins 1 and 3 to tie to shield of a 75 ohm coax cable to the RCA. Pin 2 on the XLR ties directly to the center pin of the RCA. 

That’s from Phil Tennison at Mogami. Regarding the Mogami Gold XLR to RCA 

The cables are ready to go. Full unity gain without any box in between. You don’t want ANY other box in the circuit. If had done all that in the beginning. When I discovered the Mogami Gold and that I didn’t need a box, SQ took a huge leap forward. 
how exciting!!  Which piece? Price range? New or used?

My Cardas are custom wired exactly the same. They are GREAT 

Thanks tlcocks!The adapters were pin 1and 2 together for signal pin 3 for ground.I did look for Mogami but couldn't locate one.I settled for Monoprice. I'll search harder I guess knowing they exist, lol.I don't want to add a box.More connections are never a good thing. I've been looking at new and used and actually trying to learn more about them by reading on pro audio sites and familiarizing myself with what the various brands have to offer.The API SR24 stereo (less $) and Charter Oak don't look overly elaborate like some others.I don't need a zillion functions.

Anyways I will find a pair of Mogami Gold and see how that goes first.

API looks nice. Not stereo ganged. Every adjustment have to turn two dials the same amount. Look for stereo ganged unit. I know the SPL PQ is pricey, but it’ll do ganged so one turn for both channels. I’d spring for that if both of my CO died. 

Mogami GOLD XLR to RCA 6 foot available on Amazon 

I've had the hankering for getting a new DAC, and noticed that the RME ADI-2 DAC has lots of cool features, among them being 5-bands of parametric EQ.  Right now I'm using a studio equalizer only for vinyl playback, but having digital EQ right there in the DAC seems like a great way to go!   It goes for $1300.  I'm still deciding on it.  

I’ve heard RME dac is a little edgy or a little digital glare or etch. Don’t know if that’s true. I’ve yet to find a digital EQ that tone shapes even close to balanced analog studio EQ. If you try though, I’d love to hear thy impressions!

@mirolab , how close are the programmers at Plugin Alliance getting these classic emulations to sound in comparison to their original analog hardware counterparts?  I listened to a YouTube video comparing the SPL PQ, plug-in vs hardware version on my HEKse. I honestly couldn’t tell a difference.  Are plug-ins that good now across the board?

I have a home studio... not a fully decked out commercial studio.  My best AD/DA converters are on my Lynx Hilo... a $2500 box for 2-channel converters.  As good as they are for the money, I can still hear a generation loss if I send a full mix out of the box, and back in.  So if I use analog gear, it's going to be to do something drastic or fantastic to the audio, in a creative way.   I do 95% of my mixing and mastering In-The-Box. (ie. the computer)

For pleasure listening... yeah there's still no substitute for the analog EQ, both for the sound, and the speed, and fun of it.   For mastering tho... I need the precision and instant recall of digital plugins.  I've tried mastering through my analog gear, and as good as it is, I have more control, and get better results through my various plugins.    

Thanks, my friend. Great insights. 

So post production, what’s the best way to implement say a SPL PQ plug in for digital EQ?  You’d have to use a computer to do it?  And dedicated outboard DACs are more high fidelity, yes?  In other words, in the home stereo setting you are better off doing the EQ post conversion in the analog domain?  Then you can use whatever high end streamer and dac you choose?  Which sound better anyway?

Boils down to dedicated streamer vs computer serving code. Easier to get highest fidelity from former than latter. Probably best to stick to, in this example, hardware SPL PQ vs plug-in for home playback. I’d also be willing to bet bigger broader tonal boosts like air band better done with analog hardware than same equalizer via plug-in digitally. Miro, you seem to indicate this for playback 

On extension, I’m guessing the best fidelity post production playback digital EQ would indeed be something like @mijostyn ’s DEQX Preamp. Because it’s a dedicated audio piece optimized for highest fidelity playback. Well, I still want try DEQX, @mijostyn , or hear it in a showroom. Let me know when I can hear that. 

Just a quick update - I managed to find an output cable XLR to RCA that works perfectly. Just a cheapo from BlueJean Cables.The way it's wired is pin 1 to ground, pin 2 to signal, pin 3 floating(unconnected). Being pretty ignorant about electrical circuits and how and why they work, I did a lot of reading and also came across an illustrated chart that explained the many ways to wire and convert patch cables from one format to another.The adapters and cables I tried previously used both pin 1 and 3 for ground which is how the input side is usually wired when going from RCA to XLR and often works for the output side but not always. Apologies for my other post where I said pin1 was for signal,too late to edit.So now I can give the API unit a try and see how that goes. tlcocks gave me some interesting suggestions of other eqs to check out that are very well reviewed and would be fun to play with, but I'm sticking with simplicity for now.I just want to correct a tiny bit with some overlap for smoothing.

So for the rca to XLR input cable, 1 and 3 both ground, 2 hot. And for the output side, 1 ground 2 hot 3 floating. I wonder if the Skyline piece would’ve worked if I’d used that output pin scheme. You’ve just taught me something!  Good luck with the API unit!  Look forward to hearing more!  Which exact model is that?

This is a precise link for the diagrams.I believe the first one asked for visitors to start an account.https://www.ranecommercial.com/kb_article.php?article=2107

API select  SR24 is the one I'm trying out.Anyway I am saving that link to pass on in case it comes up again sometime. There is a forum on that site that I imagine has a wealth of information for those of us (me) to better understand how electrical circuits work.

👍🙏

@tlcocks I got my DEQX Pre 8 yesterday. I am part of the beta group and everything is not working yet including the remote:-(  It has a Volumio processor in it, so it will stream anything Volumio carries. I have programmed it to my system but there are still a few glitches in the software which should be easy to take care of. EQ will be available by the end of February. It is certainly a work in progress but initial results have been excellent except for those few glitches. We got a very good price on our units to do this so I can not complain. I can operate it from my telephone while they get the remote programmed. It came with an Earthworks microphone which is dead flat 20 to 20 kHz so it does not need calibration. 

Digital Audio sound enhancements- the Good and the Bad

The Good: it’s great to have many choices, at all price points, to enhance one’s sonics. Products such as DEQX, audiophile switches, filters, LPS, master clocks, routers, BAACH+Mac…did I miss any?

The Bad: it causes havoc on my wallet…and my sanity…

Great summary !

But i think that with patience and basic studies we can enjoy a low cost system and put it over his marked limits on the S.Q./price ratio level by electrical,mechanical and acoustical optimization...

And this level reached is not a stopgap at all....

For sure i live with small speakers in near field listening...and headphone...

my system is top for his low price and even shame more costlier one... But we all differ by our desires and needs...

I only post this to motivate people like me to study basic acoustics concepts to begin with electrical noise floor control and EMI shielding and vibration/resonance control...Dont upgrade BEFORE learning that save if there is a failure in the basic system synergy ...

And for sure equalization had help me if i want to stay in the limit of this thread....

Digital Audio sound enhancements- the Good and the Bad

The Good: it’s great to have many choices, at all price points, to enhance one’s sonics. Products such as DEQX, audiophile switches, filters, LPS, master clocks, routers, BAACH+Mac…did I miss any?

The Bad: it causes havoc on my wallet…and my sanity…

@mijostyn , thanks for the update!  When the time is right I’d love a demo. If possible. 

@tlcocks A demo is always possible.

@mahgister 1+ on the sanity issue. Beta testing the DEQX is already putting a strain on mine and it is only two days old. 

😊 I can imagine...

Anyway in your case i exclude a pathology...Fixation is not a pathology only a part of a possible one and anyway i am pretty fixated myself...

@mahgister 1+ on the sanity issue. Beta testing the DEQX is already putting a strain on mine and it is only two days old. 

@mijostyn , I’ll reach out to you on a demo. Thanks 

@jtcf , any good feedback on the API Select SR24 yet?