Duelund conversion to DIY Helix Geometry Cabling

@celo - apart from this very latest update the web site is up to date - Including how to build the HELIX IMAGE (Air) variant.

1. HELIX IMAGE POWER CABLE:
GROUND CONDUCTOR is 12 gauge stranded wire from any hardware store

NEUTRAL CONDUCTOR is 2 x 12 gauge stranded silver plated Mil-Spec wire

the LIVE WIRE CAN BE ANY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING depending on your own preferences and in descending order of performance

1. 1 x 12 gauge Neotech UP-OCC solid copper (i.e. the best perofrmance)
   
2. 4 x 18 gauge VH Audio UP-OCC solid copper
3. 1 x 12 gauge Duelund wire with the Polymer insulation (IF FLEXING IS AN ISSUE)
4. 1 x 12 gauge Mil-spec stranded wire from Take Five audio - A LOW BUDGET VERSION  
   

2. HELIX IMAGE (Air) POWER CABLE
Ground wire is 12 gauge stranded wire from any hardware store

Neutral is 2 x 12 gauge stranded silver plated Mil-Spec wire

LIVE WIRE CAN BE ANY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING depending on your own preferences and in descending order of performance

1. 2 x 16 gauge Neotech UP-OCC copper, BARE WIRE - twisted together inside a single Teflon Tube - EXCELLENT FOR SOURCE COMPONENTS
2. 1 x 12 gauge  Neotech UP-OCC copper, BARE - inside a single Teflon Tube - EXCELLENT FOR HEAVIER DUTY APPLICATIONS like amps and power conditioners

Although I have not tried it to date I believe a 2 x 14 gauge  Neotech UP-OCC copper, BARE WIRE - inside a single Teflon Tube should prove to be slightly better than the 1 x 12 gauge version

IF you amp is over 600 watts I would probably consider using a   2 x 12 gauge Neotech UP-OCC copper, BARE WIRE - inside a single Teflon Tube

PLEASE NOTE: - these are my preferences to date.

Any other variants discussed in this thread are preferences of other members and I DO NOT track those because it would be very complex.

But I do try to incorporate some ideas discussed here - like the Double Shotgun approach

Hope that helps - Steve

@t_ramey -

For the HELIX IMAGE POWER CABLE and the HELIX IMAGE (Air) POWER CABLES
:
GROUND CONDUCTOR is 1x 12 gauge stranded wire from any hardware store

NEUTRAL CONDUCTOR is 2 x 12 gauge stranded silver plated Mil-Spec wire

The Live conductor is the only one that varies - please see previous post immediately above this one

Regards - Steve 

@williewonka OK. The thread had few additional brands/types of cables so it was confusing. Now, it is more clear if you still stick with your preferences on your website. Thank you. 

@celo - apologies for any confusion - I do realize there is a lot of new information on this thread with so many different options and individual preferences of contributing members.

I do endeavor to update The HELIX web site as soon as possible, but there can be a bit of as lag between what is posted here - and what is posted on my site.
- An example of which is the use 2 x 16 gauge wires for the Live conductor of the power cables, which is not currently posted on the HELIX site

This thread is much more active than The HELIX site, with other members providing feedback on their variants

Members feedback lately has been pretty active, with several very worthwhile contributions from other members

Hopefully this will level off and allow others reading this thread for perhaps the first time to digest the wealth of information it offers

But for a less dynamic read, The HELIX site is a good place to start

Regards - Steve

To make things more confusing several of us use 2 - 12 gauge Neotech on the live of our power cords. I use this for amps, preamps, and conditioners. I use 2-14 gauge Neotech live conductors on all else. None of it stripped for the power cords.That is the recipe I like the sonically and safety wise.

What is good and fun about this is that the general design just works and you can decide what you want to do with the reported variations. They all sound fantastic and no one choice can ever be best in all systems and for all preferences. 

Thanks @grannyring and @williewonka for your insights on the different wire types. My system is very revealing and could be bright if not carefully matched. I have ordered some of the Neotech wire to give it a try. Do you have any recommendation for speaker cables suitable for a balanced differential output amp?

@divertiti I would give these a try- 

https://silversmithaudio.com/fidelium-cables/

Inakustik is another great performer, but a little expensive

The are reasonably priced and from everything I have read/watched they are great performers at a "reasonable" price point

Search the forums for observations of other members

This one used the Neotech UP-OCC copper mentioned on this thread

Mogami 3103 Deluxe Deep Cryo Treated - Speaker Cables - (takefiveaudio.com)



Regards

Thanks @williewonka , Fidelium caught my eye too but unfortunately they're not making them at the moment. The Mogami one you linked uses Mogami connectors right? I do see Take Five some using Neotech but they are NES 3004 II which are stranded, not solid core. NES 3001 seems like they would be ideal.

@divertiti- too bad about the Fidelium.

You could try building your own cables, but with this style of amp both conductors NEED to be exactly the same and the +ve and -ve conductors would need about a 1" gap between them to avoid induced noise - the only real issue is maintaining the gap for the length of the cable.

But to accomplish the spacing I would fist start with a "Dollar Store" design, just to see how well this approach works

• Buy some "alphabet blocks" that children play with - like these
• Joqutoys 1.65” ABC Wooden Building Blocks, 26PCS Stacking Alphabet Letter and Counting Block Set with Storage Bag for Toddlers, Stacking Blocks - Amazon Canada
  
• Buy some small screw-in eyelets - like these
• CEEYSEE 300 Pcs Small Screw Eye Mini Screw Eye Pin Peg Self Tapping Screws Hooks Ring for Arts Crafts Projects (YJY1), Screw-in Hooks - Amazon Canada
  
• insert an eyelet on opposite sides of the block
• thread each wire through the eyelets on the blocks to maintain spacing
• Connect the wires and space the block evenly
• This approach will also hold the wires off the floor - bonus :-)

Using this approach you could then make the conductors from 2 x 16 gauge UP-OCC bare twisted wire inside teflon tube, since we know this approach yields very good results

Once you hear the results you can fabricate a more "attractive" method of maintaining the spacing

PLEASE NOTE - I have never made this type of cable before, so I am just brainstorming here, but based on my experience with the Helix cables I believe it would work very well

BUT if you want a commercially available cable, other than the Fidelium, one of the best cables for this style of amp would be Nordost, from the HEIMDALL 2 model and above, because they are low inductance AND low capacitance and should achieve a very good signal transmission with this type of amp.

Regards - Steve

@divertiti 

Before I started reading this thread I had ordered a pair of Kirmuss Adrenaline speaker cable from Audio Archon. They’re the best sc’s I’ve come across so far and not too expensive at $610 for 12ft length which is what they recommend for best sound with their design. Another member here told me about them after comparing them to the SilverSmiths Fidelium.

https://kirmussaudio.com/the-adrenaline-speaker-cable/

Just wanted to state that I have not built and tried the double helix image sc’s yet to compare to the Kirmuss. I just built my first set of double helix image with Neotech copper with Teflon and so far they’re great. Waiting on more mil spec wire to arrive to build the naked or air version.

@williewonka Thanks for the great idea, I will look into that construction for sure. I tried the DIY Helix speaker cable I made previously with VH audio OCC and Milspec, it still sounds pretty good but compared to other speaker cables, I can hear smearing that's affecting clarity and instrument definition.

@t_ramey Thanks for the suggestion, I am reading correctly that the other member preferred those to the Fidelium? Do you have a link to this comparison by chance?

@divertiti 

It was all done thru pm's here. Yes, he preferred them to the Fidelium's and several others he auditioned and I just heard from another forum member that they tried both the Kirmuss Adrenaline's and SS Fidelium's and favored the Adrenaline's as well. I don't have too much of a comparison list except with the Audio Envy cables that were pretty good but for just a little more money the Kirmuss cables are definitely more detailed and image better while still being relaxed and smooth.

I asked @grannyring to sell me some ICs but unfortunately the shipping costs to Europe where insanely high. I will try building them on my own :p
What would you recommend doing first?
My cables are Duelund 16 streamer > preamp, RCA/XLR belden 8402 preamp >amp and WE 16 as SCs. The PC are basic appliance ones.

Do you think the Helix is interesting for RCA/CLR cables ?

If I like the results, I could rewire my speakers eventually. They have 2 crossovers (bi wirable), what gauges do you think would be suitable for woofer and highs?

Thanks guys!

@abolive - re:...

Do you think the Helix is interesting for RCA/XLR cables ?

 Not quite sure what you really mean by this question and I interpret it as one of the following

1. Would benefit the sound compared to cables you currently have? - I would have to say they yes, definitely
2. Or which would be the better approach for the Helix cables, RCA or XLR? - Either format will perform very well

If you could please restate your question it would help avoid any ambiguity - thanks :-)

RE:  If I like the results, I could rewire my speakers eventually. They have 2 crossovers (bi wirable), what gauges do you think would be suitable for woofer and highs?

I think using the Helix inside a speaker would be an unnecessary complexity. Because of the space you have inside the enclosure you can afford to keep the +ve and -ve wires separated, so no need for the helix geometry.

The issue I faced when rewiring the crossover was getting the gauge I had selected attached to the circuit board. The wire should ideally be very flexible to prevent lifting the copper trace off of the circuit board

That being the case I would recommend the Neotech stranded wires. They use UP-OCC copper and are pretty flexible.

Hope that helps - Steve

A HELIX SPEAKER CABLE QUESTION - Do I have to use the Beads?

I’ve been asked this question a few times and always respond that the beads provide better sound quality.

But that has always been for cables that use a single wire for the signal conductor.

Things have now changed and the" Double Shotgun" approach is taking off in combination with the (Air) approach of using bare wire inside a Teflon tube
- so if you are using dual conductors in Teflon tubes for the signal wire I now see no reason to use the beads any longer - why?

Well this week I finished a couple of power cables that use dual wires for the Live conductors. These cables were for the more power hungry components in my system, so I used 2 x 14 gauge bare wire, each wire inside it’s own Teflon tube and then twisted together - and the results were excellent

So I got to thinking about power cables and the fact they probably have the strongest EMI influences to contend with of all the cables, i.e. carrying the highest voltage/current of all the cables.

I realized that if a twisted wire pair were used for a speaker cables then it was no longer necessary to employ beads for spacing because

• the wires inside the Teflon tube would gravitate to the center of the twisted wire pair, leaving more space between the outside of the twisted wire conductor and the neutral coil
• also, as the the wires are twisted, each wire "take turns" at being the closest to the Helix coil, therefore disrupting the EMI effect

My next thought - can the diameter of the Helix Coil of the speaker cables be reduced?

• very likely, because the 5/16" rod to form the neutral coil of the mains cables, work so well with dual conductors, it is more than likely a 5/16" rod would be adequate for speaker cables also, because they convey lower powered signals.

To provide a little more separation, you could also use a cotton sleeve over the twisted pair...

Please Note: I have not tried this to date, so I cannot confirm this "by observation" as yet, but the evidence, as it relates to power cables, is very compelling and I feel extremely confident that this approach will make fabricating the Helix speaker cables much simpler going forward, without compromising sound quality.

For the Live conductors I recommend either 2 x 16 or 2 x 14 gauge
- I am currently using 2 x 16 gauge wire inside a single Teflon tube and the result is stunning with a significant improvement in ultra low frequency depth.

Regards - Steve

POWER CABLE update.

In the past couple of weeks I have revised the design of my power cables.
I now use two slightly different variants:

1. For SOURCE components - I use 2 x 16 gauge bare UP-OCC copper twisted together (1 complete twist every inch) inside a single Teflon Tube, with a cotton sleeve over the tube
2. For components that use more power e.g. amplifiers, extension cables and power conditioning/distribution devices - I use 2 x 14 gauge bare UP-OCC copper wire, each wire inside it’s own Teflon tube and then twisted together (one complete twist every 6")

The other wires remain unchanged

• Neutral - 2 x 12 gauge Stranded Silver plated Mil-Spec with Teflon insulation
• Ground - 1 x 12 gauge copper with Teflon insulation from Home Depot

Why two different approaches? - $cost - I like to keep costs down wherever possible

1. the 2 x 16 gauge wires fit nicely inside the PTFE 10 Tube I had available
2. whereas the 2 x 14 gauge, being a larger diameter wire, required a separate tube for each wire
3. you could adopt approach #2 for all cables, but I do not think the difference would be significant

Both of these cables perform noticeably better than the previous version that used a single 12 gauge solid bare UP-OCC conductor inside a Teflon tube

Once again the Schroeder "Double Shotgun" approach first introduced here by @grannyring, continues to provide significant improvement to the performance of all Helix Cables - many thanks.

Regards - Steve

Thanks for the update Steve :-)

Thank you so much @williewonka and @grannyring for sharing your findings and improvements!

I finally decided to pull the trigger and build some helix power cables. I will start with my source components and this is what I plan to do:

Live: 2x16AWG Neotech UP-OCC
Neutral: 2x13AWG Jantzen silver-plated copper
Ground: 1x13AWG Jantzen silver-plated copper

For safety reasons however I will leave the PTFE on the live wires.

I have some questions left before placing my order and would highly appreciate your kind answers:

1. Should I handle the 2 unstripped Neotech wires similar to stripped ones (twisted closely every inch)?
2. Should the twisted live wire be covered in cotton? If so, which diameter is appropriate for 2x16AWG?
3. The ratio for neutral and ground to live is 4:1, correct?
4. Covering the final cable in a cotton or nylon sleeve should be avoided in order to get the best performance, correct?
5. Any thoughts on helix DC cables? Or what is your favorite DC cable recipe to pair with the helix AC PCs?

Cheers,
Markus

@williewonka thank you for your reply. Point taken for the speaker internal wiring. Btw, do you prefer Neotech to Duelund for such an application ? And what different gauges would you guys recommend for highs and lows?
Regarding the RCA>XLR, I meant a cable between an unbalanced preamp and a balanced amp (my set up).
Thanks a lot, awesome discussion :)

@abolive - I prefer Neotech

Provided the speakers are 6-8 ohm I might try something like this
- 1 x 14 gauge for the speaker SIGNAL wire for LF
- 2 x 18 gauge for SIGNAL wire to HF.
- use the same 1 x 14 gauge for both HF and LF neutral wires.

I have used 10 gauge with 14 gauge in a pair of speakers and it sounded very good, but that was many years ago and with vastly different wire. The 10 gauge was very awkward to attach to the board, so I would not recommend it

RE: RCA to XLR...

OK - so there is no real great solution for this setup. You can create a cable with RCA at one end and XLR at the other. The Helix geometry is probably one of the better geometries for this because of the lack of noise in the cable.
On the XLR end
- Pin #1 would connect the neutral coil and
- Pin #2 would connect the signal wire
- pin #3 left unconnected

Hope that answers your questions

Regards - Steve

@marcus87 - RE:

  I have some questions left before placing my order and would highly appreciate your kind answers:

1. Should I handle the 2 unstripped Neotech wires similar to stripped ones (twisted closely every inch)?
2. Should the twisted live wire be covered in cotton? If so, which diameter is appropriate for 2x16AWG?
3. The ratio for neutral and ground to live is 4:1, correct?
4. Covering the final cable in a cotton or nylon sleeve should be avoided in order to get the best performance, correct?
5. Any thoughts on helix DC cables? Or what is your favorite DC cable recipe to pair with the helix AC PCs?

1. Relax the twist a little - one twist every 2"
2. 2 x 16 can use the 1/8" cotton sleeve
3. a ratio of 2.5 - 3.0 to 1 is better

#4 - To SLEEVE or NOT - I prefer not to use any sleeve, but I can also see the need for a sleeve.
- does cotton sleeve impact the sound?
- maybe, very slightly, but you would have to listen very intently.
- Other people found the the nylon I had used previously did impact sound

#5 - DC Cables - this is uncharted territory and I have no DC supplies to test my theories.
Because DC does not alternate then there should be no noise generated within the cables
BUT the current certainly fluctuates as the signal draws different levels of current, which could in turn cause very slight voltage fluctuations and those could impact sound quality.

But you might want to consider using a better quatity wire for DC power cords

• Use 1 x 18 up-OCC gauge wire inside a teflon tube for the +ve wire
• and use a 1 x 16 gauge Silver plated Mil-spec wire - about 1.5 times the length of the signal wire wrapped around the teflon tube in a more "stretched out" Helix coil

Hope that helps - Steve

@ abolive

""RE: RCA to XLR...

OK - so there is no real great solution for this setup. You can create a cable with RCA at one end and XLR at the other. The Helix geometry is probably one of the better geometries for this because of the lack of noise in the cable.
On the XLR end
- Pin #1 would connect the neutral coil and 
- Pin #2 would connect the signal wire
- pin #3 left unconnected

Hope that answers your questions

Regards - Steve""

I have always connected pin 3 as well to the pin 1 in the XLR connector.
Both will work, have a try, what sounds best to your equipement.

@ marcus87

living in Europe, I have made my low powered pc's with 2x 16 AWG OCC Neo unstriped like this:

Life = 2x 16 AWG OCC Neo in PTFE twisted 1x every inch clockwise.

Spacer = 1 x 15 AWG (1,5sqmm) solid core groundwire (green-yellow) from home depot with PVC insulation (cheap) coiled on a 6mm dia rod clockwise ratio 3,5:1. Slide the life wire into that coil. This is only connected to wall plug, as ist acts purely as a spacer.

Neutral (and grd if needed) = coiled anti-clockwise on a 12mm rod. I used Jantzen silver plated 4N copper in PTFE as well.
Slide it over the Life/GND construction.
This way, the space between life and neutral wire is very even.

A low cost version I have tested as well (use it on my diy power supply for 5V DC for my amazon fire stick and on the 5V DC for my ethernet/fibre-optic converters).

Instead of the expansive OCC Neo wire I have used the Jantzen 6N OFC copper speaker cable (2 x 1,0sqmm / 17 AWG) as live conductor.
Coiled a 1,5sqmm GND wire as spacer (as above) and the Jantzen silver platted copper 1,3sqmm x 2 as neutral.
Note: The Jantzen speaker cable is only approved for max 80 V, so you can not use it as a power cord when connecting  the 2 internal wires one to life and one to neutral !!!

It sounds not quite as open as the OCC Neo, more pleasing which can be a good thing in some applications.

@williewonka thank you for this feedback And @mawe thank you guys

Thanks a lot @williewonka for your reply!

@mawe I am from Europe as well... Going to order at audiophonics.

Spacer = 1 x 15 AWG (1,5sqmm) solid core groundwire (green-yellow) from home depot with PVC insulation (cheap) coiled on a 6mm dia rod clockwise ratio 3,5:1. Slide the life wire into that coil. This is only connected to wall plug, as ist acts purely as a spacer.

So if I understand correctly, you use the 15AWG gnd wire only as a spacer between live and neutral. Shouldn't this mean that you are NOT connecting it to any plug?

Do you use a cotton sleeve on the live wire on top?

This concept sounds interesting, have you compared it to the original design? What benefits does it bring? Better handling/stability of the cord? Better sonics?

Do you use a 2.5 to 3:1 ratio for neutral to live as well?

Cheers,
Markus 

@ markus87

I have always connected the “spacer-wire” at the mains plugs side together with the GND wire.
If there is a EM field inducted from the “life” conductor to the spacer, this will be fed to ground.

Main reasons I do this are, more equal spacing between life and neutral and it gives the whole construction a more solid fit. The Jantzen wire for neutral is not as easy to work with as if it would be with a solid core wire.

No, in this construction I do not cover the life wire with anything else.

I have made more than a dozen different Helix PCs with different wires and they all sound slightly different.
This Design is with my ears and my equipment the best compromise in terms of “sound” and “construction”. 
On the “air” (wire without insulation) design and on other designs I had used  2 Teflon tubes (6mm and 12mm) to create a kind of “spacer” to keep the neutral away from the life conductors.
I think the coiled GND wire is at least equal and easier and more cost effective.

I use a 3:1 ratio.

I used different plugs, and these “sound” more different, than some of the different constructions.
The SonarQuests silver plated are very open. On some applications I prefer the Furutech FI-15 (G) IEC connector, as it is easier to work with and has a more “solid” sound signature. And for Schuko plugs I used either SonarQuest, Wattgate or Hifituning. Later 2 are easier to work with. 

A jump back in time to the last days of 2020..

@divertiti asked for directions on how to convert an already finished cable from RCA to XLR.

@grannyring answered in a way that could be an object for discussion. As I’m about to embark on the exact same journey, I would be very pleased, if someone could confirm my understanding on how a Helix Image with XLR termination would be made.

As I understand the layout from the answering of @grannyring there should be 2•18GA for positive +ve and 2•18GA for the negative -ve and a double helix consisting of 2•16GA for ground.
Ratio should be 4-4,5.

Am I on track here with this understanding or have I totally missed out?

@provst - I just looked back at the @grannyring post you mentioned and your understanding is correct.

But saw no mention of the ratio in that post, so I think the ratio of the Helix coil should remain 3:1 Neutral to signal

I generally reserve a higher ratio of 4:1 for Analogue Interconnects that employed from a Turntable to the Phono Stage to offer a little better shielding capability to the extremely small signals at play.

The signals in interconnects between components are much more robust and not amplified to the same degree. 

This is the Schroeder Double Shotgun approach, which is proving to offer the best performance.

Hope that helps - Steve

The helix ground on your xlr is never a twisted pair, but always a coiled helix. It is not a huge sonic degrade if you just use one conductor as the helix. However, two sound a tad better.

If using two wires on the helix, then just coil them up side by side on your drill at the same time.  Very easy to do.  I have been able to uncoil the TFA wire once coiled.  Took my time and did a good job of getting it straight again.

I would use a 4-4.5 to 1 ratio on the helix to pin 2&3 conductors if just using one conductor.

Hi Steve,
Thank you so much for a swift response.
The above section is taken from @grannyring answering in more detail at 12-30-2020 1:45pm.
Now - upon reading your explanation and recommendation for interconnects, and re-reading the answer from @grannyring I guess you are still aligned. As I now see it, the ratio of 4 - 4,5 is in case you are using only one helix for the ground. If using two helix for ground, ratio should be 3:1. Is this correct?

@provst - Since the Double Shotgun approach will provide the very best sound quality I would use a double helix with a ratio of 3:1

Regards

Yes I use a 4-1 ratio on all my IC builds. Just my preference. For a one meter length I use 2-13 foot runs for the Helix in my ICs.

Thank you Steve and @grannyring 

Everything is clear now and the first double helixes has been coiled by now. Double signal wires will be mounted tomorrow, ratio 3:1.

I have built three power cables using the double helix air version with two having 14g occ copper from Parts Connexion and one with Neotech 12g. They’re all great and the 12g is still burning in but things are opening up sounding phenomenal.

I have two pairs of IC’s with the double helix air with 18g Neotech solid copper and they too are performing stellar with a huge soundstage and provide a real presence of the artists in the room.

Wondering if anybody has tried mixing a copper solid with a silver solid on the signal conductor in their double helix interconnects and if that provides anymore clarity while retaining the warmth or is that not a good idea to mix the two on the signal. I know there are cables that mix silver/gold but have not seen copper/silver.

@t_ramey - I would advise against "mixing metals" on the signal or live conductors of Helix cables.

Back in time, I tried silver plated copper wires for the signal on IC’s and they impacted clarity.

Since then I have use one OR the other, but never mixed them.

My theory is that the two metals convey the signal at two slightly different propagation rates, resulting in distortion

I do recommend the silver plated mil-spec wire for the neutral, but fortunately, the neutral conductor plays a different "role" to the signal conductor, so the silver plated Mil-spec does NOT introduce distortions in the signal.

Regards - Steve

Thanks Steve. I figured there must be a reason why you don’t hear this being done and it would be an expensive experiment just to find out.

I received some 16g mil spec from Take Five so I will make an ic set today with it and some bare Neotech 18g to compare to the mil spec I got from Apex jr. Curiosity of the cryo treatment Take Five does to their wire got the best of me.

t_ramey

What connectors did you use for the power cords?

Thanks.

maxima95- Several years ago I was able to grab a great deal on some Furutech NCF connectors so that’s what I’m using with the double helix.

Each 12g wire went into its own 8g Teflon tubing and was a bit of a pain to get down through the helix. A bigger rod than 5/16 probably would have been better or easier.

t_ramey

Thanks very much for the information.

Quick DIY Helix PC Neutral Wire Update:

Guys,

I finally made the decision to order some Neotech 12 Ga OCC Copper Wire to replace the Neutral Mil-Spec Wire in my PC and I wasn’t prepared to hear this unbelievable change… The first thing I noticed was complete blackness/lowering of floor noise, much better channel separation, depth, more body/texture with images being more vibrant and articulate.

I’m still shaking my head as my speakers before were “chameleon” but with the Neotech upgrade, my speakers are not there and the sound is more “vinyl-like” and this is with zero hours on the cables. I converted my dual 12 Ga Mil-Spec wire to a single Neotech 12Ga OCC Copper and this wire is robust.

If you convert your current DIY Helix Cables to Neotech, I recommend removing the neutral from your current cables first and coiling the remainder of the cabling around the Neotech OCC Wire that’s on a rod and sufficiently spaced; the longer the rod, the better but 6+ feet would be good depending on the length of you PC.

Again, the change was so amazing that I converted ALL 5 of my DIY Helix PC to a single Neotech 12Ga OCC Copper Neutral Wire totaling $325!

They are now on my Audiodharma Cable Cooker for some dielectric exercising for about 4 days and then on to the refrigerator for some settling before placing back in my system....

Wig : ) 

Varistrand?

First of all: thanks for a very interesting thread. 

Has anyone tried combining different gauges for the signal wire? Say one 18awg and one 20 awg instead of the double 18awg for the IC. 

Kimber uses the varistrand-concept. Also, I remember another thread on this forum where cables were tuned by combining a variety of gauges.

Thanks

@wig   I’ve been thinking of doing that. Did you get strand or solid core 12g Neotech for the neutral?

I just replaced the Duelund wire in my amps output to 16g Neotech solid copper and the clarity and texture is incredible. Thinking why didn’t I do this sooner. I’m also contemplating using the 16g Neotech copper in my speakers crossover.

@wig - Glad to hear that the benefits justified the expense :-)

You are probably the first to report what sounds like a "significant improvement" as opposed to "marginal", by using better wire for the neutral, but then is is UP-OCC copper, which appears to provide benefits no matter where it is used. Others have tried very good wire from a couple of established brands, but not UP-OCC copper, and they reported only marginal improvement.

I think also that all cables have a tendency to perform differently from one system to the next, because your description of "invisible" speakers and the sound being more "vinyl like" (I’ll assume this means more natural/realistic) is exactly what I am currently experiencing, but all my cables are using the Silver plated Mil-spec from Take Five audio, which is CRYO’d

It stands to reason that using the best quality wire for both signal and neutral conductors should achieve the best performance.

So, do you have any plans to convert other Helix cables?

@traubert - ever since I started developing cables I have come to realize that any change can make some difference (good or bad) in cable performance, so it might be possible to "tune" a cable to a persons preferred sound. What I will add is that the Helix Geometry is one of the most neutral sounding cables around and as such the "tonal qualities" do not change too much

What I and others have tried is varying the number of conductors of the same size - and from that perspective two conductors appear to provide optimal "bang for the buck"
e.g. going to 4 wires made no appreciable improvements

Unfortunately, budgets are the restricting factor for most people participating in this thread, but if you are interested in following up on this particular approach we would all appreciate your feedback/findings

Regards - Steve

Guys,

The cost of the Neotech wire has been all over the map and when I saw that Parts Connexion was almost half of the cost at Sonic Craft, where I typically buy my Neotech, I jumped on it!

For a new build it adds only $25 to the build and for a conversion of an already built cable, $69 and if you can swing the additional cost, you will be rewarded with a much higher performing cable.

I'm going to convert my DIY Helix Digital Coax "Air" version cable soon and Imagine these benefits will yield greater results there.

Wig

@ t_ramey

I used OCC Solid copper as the stranded version is even more expensive...

Wig

wig - Let me be sure I understand this iteration:

1 - 12 ga solid Neotech OCC/PTFE for the Live (inside the helix)
1 - 12 ga solid Neotech OCC/PTFE for the Neutral part of the helix
1 - 12 ga copper wire for the Ground part of the helix.

Sorry if I got it confused.  Thanks.

@maxima95 

All of my cables are utilizing the SM or doubling of conductors and configured like this:

2 - 12 Ga OCC Solid (Live)
2 - 12 Ga Mil-Spec but now 1 - 12 Ga OCC Solid (Neutral)
2 - 12 Ga Mil-Spec on (Ground) since it was already there : )

Wig

Only my power conditioner and amplifier are outfitted with OCC 12 Ga and my other components are outfitted with 2 - 16 Ga OCC Solid Copper on the Live side.

Hope that helps,
Wig

Thank you wig.  I forgot about the SM double aspect.