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Duelund conversion to DIY Helix Geometry Cabling

I have been an avid user of the Duelund cabling for over two years now and have used them exclusively in my system with great results. I have built many for friends and have used a full loom of interconnects, speaker cables, power cords and an extensive wiring modification for a previously owned balanced power conditioner utilizing Duelund 600V PolyCast wiring which was transformative. My cabling desires can be a little addictive as I have owned and evaluated 40+ brands of cabling costing more than an entire stereo system!

Over the past six months I stumbled upon a thread here on Audiogon in regards to a Helix designed cabling and as you probably already know, I just had to look a little deeper into this cable design…After a month of studying and sourcing parts, I decided to reach out to the designer/architect, Williewonka who gave more insights and philosophy on how the cable came into existence.

That conversation got the ball rolling in converting one of my KLE Duelund interconnects to Steve’s Helix designed which only entailed replacing the neutral with a Mil-Spec 16 AWG silver-plated copper wire with the neural wire being 3 times longer than the signal wire and of course the “Coiling” of the neutral wire : )

After the modification was complete, I was not sure what to expect from the Helix cabling but I was quite shocked with the results with “ZERO” burn-in time…The sound stage became much wider/deeper with a much tighter/focused image and clarity/transparency is like nothing I have ever heard in any cabling regardless of cost. In fact, I just sold a full loom of a commercially designed Helix Cable that’s renowned around the world and has more direct sale than any cable manufacturer; these $200 DIY Helix Cables walked all over them…

I believe you will hear the same results as I have and have heard back from friends who have already modified their Duelunds with the same results; WOW! Remember the cables will need 200+ hours to burn-in and settle into your system. My system is now 90% DIY Helix to include IC, SC, PC and Coax with each cabling adding its beauty of an organic and natural presentation that draws you into the fabric of the music.

You can tailor the sound of your cables using Duelund, Mundorf silver/1% gold, the outstanding Vh Audio OCC Solid Copper or Silver with Airlok Insulation or your favorite wiring and you can change it at any time…

 

http://www.image99.net/blog/files/category-diy-cables.html

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/difference-in-sound-between-copper-and-silver-digital-cables

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/adding-shielding-to-existing-cables

 

Enjoy,

Wig


128x128wig

Showing 19 responses by divertiti

divertiti
223 posts
 
@mawe Thanks, can you elaborate on why multiple of 24g sound better than 18g? Wouldn't thicker conductor offer lower resistance?
divertiti
223 posts
 
Loving the discussion here, props to Steve for bringing this to the community. I'm running a full loom of DIY helix cables in my system, Mundorf silver gold for interconnect and VH copper for power and speaker.

A few question for the experts here since my system has changed and I need to convert my RCA interconnects to XLRs: 
1. One of my interconnects I'm running a double run of the 18ga Mundorf silver cold, and it sounds very good. When I convert them to XLRs, should I double the number of signal wires to 4 runs (2 runs per signal terminal) since XLR has 2 signals instead of 1? or should I just use each of the 18ga in the double run for the 2 signals?

2. Is my current double run of 18ga effectively the same as using the 15ga of the same wire?

3. When switching to XLR, should I switch to 15ga wires to have the same effective gauge of the original double run 18ga per signal? or would 15ga be too thick for interconnects?

Not the best articulation but hopefully you guys can shed some light,  thanks.
divertiti
223 posts
 
Thanks for the input and confirmation @grannyring Do the ground conductors that make the helix shape need to be also twisted pair or should it be two helix just slotted into each other? If the ground conductors need to be made into twisted pairs first, i imagine it'd be hard to make it into a helix after. Also my current RCA already have the ground helix, would be easier to add a helix than to try to straighten it first then make it into a twisted pair.

Lastly would it be a huge compromise on SQ if I only doubled up on the signal wires and left the ground as single run?
divertiti
223 posts
 
Thanks gents, a couple of more questions if you don't mind....one of my two pairs of interconnect that I'd like to convert uses barewire (no PTFE) inside cotton sleeve, two questions:
1. If I were to make the two runs into a single double run of twisted pair, should I do it with the cotton sleeve around each conductor so they only meet at the ends or should I twist them together in bare wire form so they're touching the entire length?
2. Can I mix the PTFE version and barewire + cotton sleeve version of the same wire in the same XLR cable?
divertiti
223 posts
 
Thanks @grannyring and @williewonka, it helps a ton, I will repurpose my cotton and bare wire. Do you know if it's possible to make an AES EBU cable? I know it needs to be 110ohm and have special shielding requirements. 
divertiti
223 posts
 
@williewonka, it will be a balanced XLR connector
divertiti
223 posts
 
@williewonka Thanks to your post that sparked my curiosity, I tried my spare helix interconnect using Mundorf single run barewire in cotton and absolute harmony as Spidif cable between my streamer and DAC ($4.5k each), and it performed great. In fact I had some Nordost Valhalla 2 AES XLR cable on hand and I had both plugged in to switch back and forth on the inputs. I couldn't tell the difference after quick switching between the two input from the listening spot. 

I'm sold! Now the question is do you use double run for Spdif or keep it single run? Also is there an optimal length for spdif cables?
divertiti
223 posts
 
All really interesting ideas gents. @grannyring When you say double is always better, have you tested that idea on digital cables with the same results?

Steve, I'm using only Mundorf silver gold barewire, have you seen those oxidize like copper? Grannyring seems to think silver gold is okay, so just want to make sure
divertiti
223 posts
 
Gents, I'm currently using all Mundorf Silver Gold wire in my interconnects and AES cable, thinking about upgrading to the OCC coppers that you found superior. Can you share in sound quality terms how they are better than the Mundorf Silver Gold?

I'm not really looking to peel the wires into bare wires, how much would I be giving up if I just used the VH Audio OCC wire w/ airlok as is?

Lastly any recommendations on XLR plugs?
divertiti
223 posts
 
@williewonka and @grannyring  Thanks for the input as always. If I want to go for convenience and buy a ready made wire, is the VH-Audio OCC copper with airlok better or the Neotech OCC with Teflon better? How does the Parts Express naked wire compare to those two when they are all stripped naked? If I can get away with ready made wire and not sacrifice too much, then I will go for that, if using the teflon tube is indeed much better, then I will suck it up and do it.
divertiti
223 posts
 
Thanks @williewonka , Fidelium caught my eye too but unfortunately they're not making them at the moment. The Mogami one you linked uses Mogami connectors right? I do see Take Five some using Neotech but they are NES 3004 II which are stranded, not solid core. NES 3001 seems like they would be ideal.
divertiti
223 posts
 
Thanks @grannyring and @williewonka for your insights on the different wire types. My system is very revealing and could be bright if not carefully matched. I have ordered some of the Neotech wire to give it a try. Do you have any recommendation for speaker cables suitable for a balanced differential output amp?
divertiti
223 posts
 
@williewonka Thanks for the great idea, I will look into that construction for sure. I tried the DIY Helix speaker cable I made previously with VH audio OCC and Milspec, it still sounds pretty good but compared to other speaker cables, I can hear smearing that's affecting clarity and instrument definition.

@t_ramey Thanks for the suggestion, I am reading correctly that the other member preferred those to the Fidelium? Do you have a link to this comparison by chance?
divertiti
223 posts
 
That's great to know, I only have 18ga unocc, do you think the shield/return needs to be thicker like 16ga?
divertiti
223 posts
 
Question for the experts, would a Helix spdif cable sound good? Would one made using 18ga Neotech UPOCC on both signal and shield perform better than 16ga milspec on shield?
divertiti
223 posts
 
Thanks Wig, what length do you make them? I heard it has to be at least 1.5m... and what rca plugs do you use? I have only the Klei absolute harmony rcas but not sure if they are good for digital
divertiti
223 posts
 
Thanks for all the answers gents. @williewonka I'm on the cusp of ordering but not sure if the Parts Connexion nake UP-OCC would be up to the quality of the Neotech, have they been pretty much comparable to the sonics of the stripped Neotech?
divertiti
223 posts
 
@williewonka Thanks Steve. I made a Spdif today using 2x18ga Neotech UPOCC (stock insulation) and 16ga mil-spec as neutral (will switch out when 16ga UPOCC arrives). I made it to be 1.27m long and it performs fantastically. So much so that it's not giving much ground to a Nordost Valhalla 2 spdif after A/B. Now on all my helix cables, there is an expansiveness to the sound at the expense of tonal density. That's the last area that I think the Nordost cable does better. I suspect the slightly looser density is due to the milspec wire so will report back when I switch out the neutral.

One thing I'm unclear on is how to coil the 16ga neutral if it is being created using the air tube method? If the bare wire is free floating inside the tube, how do you coil it with the drill?
divertiti
223 posts
 
Also one more question for @williewonka @grannyring and @wig , has there been a consensus on which sounds better:
1. Putting two bare UPOCC conductors in a twisted pair inside a single PTFE tube
or
2. Insert each bare UPOCC conductor into its own PTFE tube first then twist the two tubed run into a twisted pair?
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