IT's only getting harder these days for most folks in the USA to merely make ends meet. That bodes even less well for the future of high end audio as we know it in these parts. PEople are going to have to suck it up and make a lot of adjustments moving forward if they are to maintain the somewhat luxurious quality of life I suspect most of us here have come to expect.
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I was prepared long ago about this drawback ...
The title of my virtual page in the last 10 years is : "Audiophile experience for the poor"
I discovered that the three embeddings controls : acoustic, mechanic and electric, put us far enough on the road to claim audiophile results at low cost...😊
Add to this synergy between the right vintage conmponent and you are there...
What amplifier can beat my Sansui alpha today and at which cost ?
Good luck... It will be way costlier...
For the Akg K340 , to beat it buy an Abyss or a Susvara...
Now add the cost of a new amplifier and of the susvara and you exceed easily 10,000 bucks versus my 700 bucks...
I know for sure that i enjoy music with a very good sound... No need to fool my brain .... Upgrading will for sure be possible...
But as i said there exist a MINIMAL audiophile threshold of satisfaction ...By objective as subjective criteria together...
😊
The only drawback is membership in the prestigious high end audio club will be harder to earn, so better get busy right away on that one.
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Good news: Its very doable without a doubt these days for most people to be more than satisfied with the sound in their home using many different approaches for less than $1000. The only drawback is membership in the prestigious high end audio club will be harder to earn, so better get busy right away on that one.
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In USA under $1k you can get either too old or too chubby.
In most of Europe you can get a virgin for that
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Very interesting post!
Thanks...
Especially the preacher Rembrandt metaphor... 😊
I can recall many highly emotional and satisfying moments with "lesser systems." As my knowledge and awareness of "better sound" pursued an upward trajectory, each time a layer was peeled back revealing the complexity and nuance (and, yes, bone-jarring impact) of the performance my appreciation for the music, and those boxes and cables that made it happen grew exponentially.
On a long commute to a business interest years ago, I was scanning radio stations and came across a sermon that caught my attention (good preachers are excellent teachers). The message went something like this: "We are merely ants on a Rembrant seeing textures and colors change beneath our feet as we scurry around, unable to appreciate the masterpiece has been put together in front of us."
This hit home with me on many levels, including the reproduction of music. As we work our way up the "hifi scale", there is a transition from merely seeing (hearing) colors and textures (changes in tone and tempo) to a level where we can more fully appreciate the masterpiece that’s in front of us.
There’s a statement: "You don’t know what you don’t know." Which is to say that many (most?) don’t know what is missing from their musical experience at home, and are quite satisfied with what they own. Do we audiophiles provide musical inspiration to others, or are we bubble busters?
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I just saw a dedicated room in HiFi magazine that easily cost over $500K and it seemed delusional, like this person was living like a czar and wasting money because he had no where else to spend it.
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I can recall many highly emotional and satisfying moments with "lesser systems." As my knowledge and awareness of "better sound" pursued an upward trajectory, each time a layer was peeled back revealing the complexity and nuance (and, yes, bone-jarring impact) of the performance my appreciation for the music, and those boxes and cables that made it happen grew exponentially.
On a long commute to a business interest years ago, I was scanning radio stations and came across a sermon that caught my attention (good preachers are excellent teachers). The message went something like this: "We are merely ants on a Rembrant seeing textures and colors change beneath our feet as we scurry around, unable to appreciate the masterpiece has been put together in front of us."
This hit home with me on many levels, including the reproduction of music. As we work our way up the "hifi scale", there is a transition from merely seeing (hearing) colors and textures (changes in tone and tempo) to a level where we can more fully appreciate the masterpiece that’s in front of us.
There’s a statement: "You don’t know what you don’t know." Which is to say that many (most?) don’t know what is missing from their musical experience at home, and are quite satisfied with what they own. Do we audiophiles provide musical inspiration to others, or are we bubble busters?
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I think that it is an interesting metaphor thanks...
It correspond to my feeling about my acoustic journey...
So, does a satisfaction level exist under $1,000? Absolutely. If you cannot afford more… or if you are compulsively frugal and can afford more.
I went to Outward Bound and after having no food or water for three days, being rained on for a day, snowed on for a day, freezing my butt off, with no tent or sleeping bag and having a trail biscuit and hot tea was one of the best meals I ever had.
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I dont think for sure that someone who spend 100,000 dollars is deluded at all....
There is priorities to see BEFORE upgrading for sure : acoustics and ele4ctrical and mechanical embeddings controls but upgrading is ALWAYS possible...
My question was and is about a defined minimal satisfaction threshold defined objectively by some acoustic characteristics and for sure very important subjective factors which are linked to our sound and personal music history ....
No one is the same....Our needs too constraint our choices; i am alone and dont need a room for the family and friends for the enjoyment of music... Costs and gear are then different...
Or, one can try to convince oneself that everyone else who can spends more is deluded. (That’s hard, too. Better equipment -- room and gear -- does yield better sound.)
Happily i never give up about the idea of good sound nor about the way to reach some satisfying level...It takes me time and trials and experiments but i am more than happy now...
I can forget sound easily and focus on music because my basic acoustic needs are satisfied: Imaging , soundstaging, holography, timbre, etc upgrading is possible but a real upgrading but will be very , very costly...It will cost at least ten times the cost of my system...My last upgrade was a disastrous and cost me two times almost the cost of my actual system...
Or, one should give up the idea of better sound and just focus on music only, not sound. (That's hard.)
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Perhaps it is true...
Without the 35 years old Sansui alpha nor unique 45 years old hybrid AKG K340 i will be far from where i am now...Especially without this headphone i think... Or i would had pay way more...
Then my question did not have the same meaning ...It takes very refin3ed past products to reach some minimal acoustic satisfaction level...
Sub-$1,000 quality systems disappeared during the 1970s.
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Sub-$1,000 quality systems disappeared during the 1970s.
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I went to Outward Bound and after having no food or water for three days, being rained on for a day, snowed on for a day, freezing my butt off, with no tent or sleeping bag and having a trail biscuit and hot tea was one of the best meals I ever had.
Great story.
The lesson I take from ghdprentice's story is that there are some choice points about audio, here:
If one wants better sound but cannot afford it they should deprive themselves, periodically, to appreciate how good their current system is.
Or, one should give up the idea of better sound and just focus on music only, not sound. (That's hard.)
Or, one should figure out what else is worth giving up to afford sound after spending various increments more.
Or, one can try to convince oneself that everyone else who can spends more is deluded. (That's hard, too. Better equipment -- room and gear -- does yield better sound.)
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@mahgister
Anybody can buy the best amplifier of the world...
I understand what you’re saying but at the same time, while any rich person can buy a pair of Magicos or Wilsons, not every person who has that kind of money can take the next steps -- choosing a source, amplification, cables that add up to something sublime! ;o)
@jasonbourne52
Too many members here have lost touch with Reality by pursuing ever more costly components. Enjoyment of music is a subjective experience that eludes comparison based upon cost of gear.
I’m all for maintaining focus on the music but not everyone here is necessarily after the same thing. Those who pursue ever more costly components may simply enjoy that pursuit, so who’s to say they’ve lost touch?
Personally, I don’t relate to such a quest -- I can enjoy music just as much listening to the radio in my Subaru as I can listening at home on my modest-but-satisfying-to-my-ears system and I wouldn’t have it any other way but there is a spectrum and everyone is not located at the same point.
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I must confess that if i was impressed by some costly system on some occasion , each time the acoustic of the room was the MAIN culprit ...
For Jay he does not know enough about acoustics ... Buying panels is not enough... 😁
Some people invest in gear....More and more... Some others like me had no choice than invest in the knowledge necessary to improve what they have...
It is rewarding because whatever i had in the future as what i have now will sound very good...
Making the most with the less is true audio knowkledge... Anybody can buy the best amplifier of the world... 😊 Not me right now though and i dont need it really bad anyway even if i am very curious about it for sure...
I heard Jay’s Audio Lab system played on YouTube through my TCL tablet. It was playing THAT Elvis song "I love you baby ..." from Tidal. Execrable sound quality! The Wilson speakers looked and sounded like what you’d see at a rock concert! So a quarter million for the Wilson’s and another quarter million for the electronics! There is no limit to the follies of the rich!
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I heard Jay's Audio Lab system played on YouTube through my TCL tablet. It was playing THAT Elvis song "I love you baby ..." from Tidal. Execrable sound quality! The Wilson speakers looked and sounded like what you'd see at a rock concert! So a quarter million for the Wilson's and another quarter million for the electronics! There is no limit to the follies of the rich!
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If you are truly committed to the best possible sound you can get, then the next issue is financial. If I could only afford an eight hundred dollar system without taking food off the table or losing the roof over my head then getting a carefully constructed $1,000 system is going to sound great.
Systems at the $1K, $5K, $10K, $50K, $100K… etc, within the limits of values in sound quality each sound better than the preceding category when presented to knowledgable people that are passionate about sound quality without financial constraints… that’s a pretty objective group.
So, does a satisfaction level exist under $1,000? Absolutely. If you cannot afford more… or if you are compulsively frugal and can afford more.
I went to Outward Bound and after having no food or water for three days, being rained on for a day, snowed on for a day, freezing my butt off, with no tent or sleeping bag and having a trail biscuit and hot tea was one of the best meals I ever had.
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Thanks for your thoughts and history...
It seems i am less alone in my experience than i thought i was...
When I was in high school my friend had an affordable system: Pioneer receiver and turntable, KLH 6 speakers. Listening to Buffalo Springfield, The Nice and Pink Floyd was so enjoyable compared to my folks’ GE console! Too many members here have lost touch with Reality by pursuing ever more costly components. Enjoyment of music is a subjective experience that eludes comparison based upon cost of gear.
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Returning home I wish I had my friend's system!
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When I was in high school my friend had an affordable system: Pioneer receiver and turntable, KLH 6 speakers. Listening to Buffalo Springfield, The Nice and Pink Floyd was so enjoyable compared to my folks' GE console! Too many members here have lost touch with Reality by pursuing ever more costly components. Enjoyment of music is a subjective experience that eludes comparison based upon cost of gear.
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Thanks you confirm my claim that there is a minimal satisfaction threshold... Even an objective minimal one defined by all acoustic factors must exist ...
I have an inexpensive system that I like very much...but I like my main system much more...but could be happy with my under $1000 system if need be...
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Interesting!
For sure there is something here that apply to me...
I know that my actual amplifier will be inferior to the best class D amplifier as atmasphere amp for example ... But anyway it is out of my budget...And my actual amp is good enough anyway...
But did i convinced a part of my brain to be happy even if it is not perfect ?
Probably you are right here for sure ...Thinking about it, i will surely invest 100,000 bucks in an audio system if i could... This contradict my ectasy each evening with a 1000 bucks system...
The problem is i dont think so it is necessary to upgrade when listening music in ectasy and being unable to fault as completely wrong on any acoustic count my audio system...It seems to me not lacking in any acoustic factors even if any of these factors can be improved for sure with an astronomical amount of money compared to 700 bucks...
I loose my bet the last time, one week ago, i tried to upgrade...Lesson learned...
For sure it is possible to upgrade with the right choice : for me a BACCH filters system... 😊
If I already know that my budget is limited, I adjust my expectations.
I’m happier if I believe that the thing I cannot afford won’t make much of a difference.
The challenge is this: if part of my mind suspects this is false, how do I convince the other part of my mind to believe it.
Orwell called this doublethink. One way I accomplish this is I find other people to help me convince myself that what I want to believe is true.
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I have an inexpensive system that I like very much...but I like my main system much more...but could be happy with my under $1000 system if need be...
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If I already know that my budget is limited, I adjust my expectations.
I’m happier if I believe that the thing I cannot afford won’t make much of a difference.
The challenge is this: if part of my mind suspects this is false, how do I convince the other part of my mind to believe it.
Orwell called this doublethink. One way I accomplish this is I find other people to help me convince myself that what I want to believe is true.
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For sure you are right...
I was just curious about the way some people would be able to create a very good audio system for low price and a good audiophile experience...
For sure for people owning costlier gear my claim is preposterous...😁 Money talk here...
But acoustic do more than what most people think.... And the right components... And the right synergy...
Anyway i am in heaven ... I am just curious to know if there is anyone happy with under 1000 bucks system and why as i am ...
@mahgister
That depends more on the listener than the equipment and the variation is so wide there is no reliable answer. You would have to ask 10,000 random people and analyze the results.
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@mahgister
That depends more on the listener than the equipment and the variation is so wide there is no reliable answer. You would have to ask 10,000 random people and analyze the results.
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i was always original it seems ... 😊
Do you think acoustic conditions define good sound or "price tag" ?
I just improve my small box speakers by acoustic embeddings so much they are completely satisfying...
I modify them...Put them in a designed acoustic corner...
Cost of my small speakers : 100 bucks...
They best most headphone on the market and many speakers in living room ......
😊
Yes, you are.
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