Dac that has tone and timing?

a dac that nails both a "meat on the bones" presentation that also preserves the leading edges of notes and maintains pace, rhythm, and timing

below 2 grand market price (used or new) -- in my order of preference, though all mentioned meet the op's stated criteria

mhdt tube dacs with tube upgrade (and ideally with modded caps)

older musical fidelity trivista 21

gustard r26

denafrips pontus

2-4 grand

modwright tube modded cambridge cxn v2

bricasti m3

musetec 5

higher price

msb analog w power base

chord m scaler hugo tt2

weiss 501

Hmm the DAC built into my Cambridge Evo 150 would seem to fit the bill but the whole shebang only costs about $3K. Added Roon recently and that in particular with the Cambridge seems to deliver meat on the bones along with attack quite well.

“Meat on the bones” has always been a forte of my Ohm Walsh speakers so that does not hurt.

There's a great ANK 5.1 with the best transformers on USAudiomart below your price range.

@roxy54

you raise a great point, i forgot about the ank 4.1 i had... splendid sound, definitely meets the op criteria in the 2-4 grand range (5.1 a bit more $ of course)

a giant of a box though, and it can’t handle sampling rates above 96k due to the rather limited input chip, but it is a lovely sounding unit

@roxy54 +1

jjss49 has experienced many systems and many DACs.  His list contains some very good DACs that he's actually heard and evaluated.  It's hard to find advice like that from someone who has nothing to gain or lose. 

Critics, in print or on internet, often have reasons for recommending audio stuff that's not very good.  Some people just love what they have; others may be selling stuff.  Read as much as you can about any DAC you might consider.

Second on the MHDT DACs

Look no further then the T+A 200 dac , i am actually planning on buying this one 

hearing well over 12 dacs over $5 k imo and many others in our NE audio club over4 people we knew bought this .it is the most musically  rewarding dac with many advanced technologies and even has the excellent HQ player capabilities and 4 settings designed around ,nothing better imo under $15k ,it sells 

retail $7k. Check out the reviews then find a dealer to demo it , just go to their website and click on each picture square that describes this digital marvel.

Lampizator. I’d grab the cheapest one you could find. They all are amazing. I like them much more than mhdt dacs that I’ve heard quite of few of. 

Border Patrol SE-I. Bested Chord TT2/M-Scaler

in my system.

@akiravelvet +1 for Lampizator. I have a Baltic 4 and it's both tonally dense yet resolving. About $7K new retail so above the OP's preferred budget but worth the stretch IMO. To my ears it is clearly a better DAC than my Terminator II. Tube rolling adds another dimension SS DAC'S lack. The Gustard R26 is my pick of SS DACs under $5K new in my system. Audio Note makes wonderful DACs according to its acolytes, but I've never owned one so that's hearsay. 

Lampizator.  I've owned, listened to, and interviewed many DAC owners and reviewers in the past few years, always eager to find something new or improved.  The Lampizators are still brilliant. I own an Atlantic 3, but the highly popular Baltic would come close to your budget.  Newer Lampi models have significant improvements that keep them relevant.  Have not listened to one or two of the other highly regarded, such as the T+A 200 or the Gustard R26.  I would think any of these would be solid end-game DACs. Some do fall outside your budget.

I really like my Bryston DAC3

Heard no real difference between my RME ADI-2 Pro, which I tried to "upgrade" to T+A 200 DAC + PreAmp. Both are DAC+preamp, which is necessary for me. People’s mileage may vary. My speakers in question are Dynaudio Focus 20 (active), and the source is always digital - Limetree Lindemann Bridge with LPS.

RME is an intensely resolving and "rich" DAC. It doesn't add or subtract anything. 

A worthy search! I heartily recommend PS Audio Directstream DAC Mk II. $8K, but worth it.

Of the affordable new DACs in your price range I chose the Wyred4Sound 10th Anniversary DAC. I find it tonally dense without sacrificing high end extension, true timbre, excellent macro and micro dynamics, pinpoint imaging, and very good sound stage. Editors in a number of journals much liked it.  All say analogue like whatever that means to them. I do not know why it  does not get mentioned often on this forum.  It is probably surpassed by the Denafrips Terminator higher end models from what I read,  but I never auditioned them in my own systems. Another choice I have heard in a friends system is the Bricasti M1 that should be around your price range pre-owned.  You cannot go wrong with any of the recommendations from others in this thread.  Let your ear’s make the choice. 

I am a big fan of Denafrips and Vinshine audio.

I had the Ares II and have recently upgraded to the Venus II 12th edition skipping over the Pontus.  For my system (The rest of the equipment) it sounds amazing very analog and very detailed as well.  I can hear every note, cymbal, bell etc. You can get one for well within your budget.  Vinshine is the global dealer based out of Singapore and they are outstanding.  The prices on their website are in Singapore dollars so less in US dollars.  Alvin runs the place and will answer any question you may have within a day.  I am exceptionally satisfied and would not spend more unless my system was a lot more expensive....

Of the affordable new DACs in your price range I chose the Wyred4Sound 10th Anniversary DAC. I find it tonally dense without sacrificing high end extension, true timbre, excellent macro and micro dynamics, pinpoint imaging, and very good sound stage. Editors in a number of journals much liked it.  All say analogue like whatever that means to them. I do not know why it  does not get mentioned often on this forum.  It is probably surpassed by the Denafrips Terminator higher end models from what I read,  but I never auditioned them in my own systems. Another choice I have heard in a friends system is the Bricasti M1 that should be around your price range pre-owned.  You cannot go wrong with any of the recommendations from others in this thread.  Let your ear’s make the choice. 

I know that it is a stretch but the MSB discrete dac is pretty incredible in regards to resolution and tonal accuracy as well as people like to say prat. I moved from the Bartok to the discrete and was happy with the change. I did buy the bartok when they were still $12k so it made it easier to swallow than where they are now at $20k new. 
 

I did recently upgrade to the MSB premier and am extremely happy it adds to the discrete in all aspects but is way out of the price range you are looking in. That said you can find a used discrete around $9k right now. Or look at Metrum Acoustics the onyx is really good. 
 

@condosound +1 on the PS Audio MK2, I own one and think it sounds absolutely fabulous.

Lampizator. Any lampi.

I tested mine against aqua la voce, holo may, bel canto dac, classe flagship dac , and nothing come even close.

the tonal balance, the spatiality, the air, it’s just amazing, music feels alive, hard to describe.

the only Dac I heard so far that outshined it was the Accuphase DC1000 flagship, but it’s 20k…

given the additional responses i will add a few further comments

-- lampi has an excellent reputation, is definitely worth trying in any price category they compete in (generally the higher ones)... i have yet to try one, will some time in the future for sure -- they seem to use some fairly niche-y tubes in their higher up units, and this has deterred me thus far

-- i have commented on my past experience owning the border patrol se-i and rme adi dacs... i sold them both before long, as i found the bp rather lacking in resolution and being fairly dark sounding, even after rolling the rectifier tube... i suspect bp lovers have systems that are innately edgy/bright, so the bp can work well calming things down, bringing the sound back from that edge of sharpness -- even so, i feel other dacs in the price range have the bp’s ’musicality’ but offer more insight and clarity reproducing transients 

-- the rme is a resolving dac, pretty neutral in tonality but i felt it did not image well (narrow and fairly upfront, lacking in perceptible depth of stage), as such it may be best suited for headphone listeners... i had the akm dac chip version before the plant burned and the supply chain was disrupted

-- i had the ps audio directstream (first version), through several firmware iterations... it is a hard dac to get a handle on sonically as the firmware updates change the sound so much... windom was very smooth and dark, poor prat in my system, then the last version called sunlight moved everything to the other end of the scale, very forward and sizzly in the treble -- i have yet to try the newly released version... given its high cost, i am in no rush to do so

A good NOS DAC like the Holo Audio plus a software upsampler like HQPlayer. Select the reconstruction filter that suites your taste unlimited by the processor inside the DAC.

You can adjust timing in JRiver player software if that works for you.

Schw006, I have had the following DACs in my own system, or own them and can highly recommend them. For reference they are quite a few R2R ladder DACs, which sonically are perfect for me.

$1,850 Denafrips Pontus II "12th Anniversary) DAC (R2R DAC)

$3,200 Musician Aquarius DAC (R2R DAC)

$5,500 Holo Audio May DAC "Kitsune KTE Edition" (R2R DAC)

$4,900 Denafrips Terminator II "12th Anniversary Edition" (R2R DAC)

$7,200 Denafrips Terminator Plus "12th Anniversary Edition (R2R DAC)

Others I have heard in systems I know, but never in my own....but can recommend:

$7,000 T+A DAC 200

$6,900 Lampizator Baltic (Think it was a 3)

For $5,000 I'd go with the Terminator II 12th no question. If you're good going to $7,000 then the Terminator Plus 12th, T+A DAC 200, and the Lampi Baltic.....would be a killer DAC shootout.

Best of luck to you

I’m humbled by all of your responses. I was away for the holiday and returned to see a lot of great suggestions which have really helped narrow the field. I want to thank you all for your time and knowledge!

AQUA LA SCALA...

Used Mojo Audio all nos with an incredibly quiet noise floor. 

I've had a Yggdrasil, it was bettered by a W4S DAC 2.2 SE which was bettered by a Terminator with Iris DDC which was bettered by a Terminator Plus.  Very recently I bought a used balanced LampizatOr Golden Gate.  It lacks some of the inner-detail and air of the Terminator Plus but it oozes PRAT, cohesion and meat on the bones.  They are very different DACs.  I was going to sell one but am having a hard time letting either go, but right now I would choose to keep the Lampi if I had to make the choice.  There is a firmware update for the Terminator Plus coming out this week, I want to hear it before making a final decision.   Also with the Lampi I could send it back for massive upgrades if I got the bug and $, but it sounds so good now I worry it would change what I like about the sound.

The Denafrips Iris DDC brought the Terminator and Terminator Plus to a new level.  The I2S input is much better than USB.  A DDC is strongly recommended with a Denafrips.

FWIW, the Golden Gate did not play well thru my Allnic pre-amp, it sounded lethargic.  The GG has a volume control and remote.  It is directly connected to my amps.

Aqua La Voce or La Scala, agreed with others on terminator and Lampizator and worth investigating.

I wouldn’t consider T+A or RME or Chord if your after the best in texture and tone.

Holo audio DACs do not have the PRaT, of the Aqua.

Schiit audio is also good and may satisfy your needs at a lower price point.

The old Naim DAC as well is PRaT personified.

Loving this discussion as I'm searching for a new DAC after 5-years... happy years with the Chord Qutest (with Sbooster PS).

And that's one thing that surprised me about this discussion. No one has really mentioned the Qutest which seems an obvious choice for the OP.

I'm very happy with the Qutest's sound quality and the biggest problem is finding a suitable, aka better, DAC to try next. With 5-years in my system it's kind of the one constant that hasn't seen replacement over this period.

Add to this being retired and having limited funds available to move up - we've got plenty of funds, but for upgrading a DAC not so much.

I've had Benchmark and Project DACs and in general don't like Sabre ES DACs all that much.  So, Holo Spring 3 "seems" like a reasonable road ahead. I do tend to buy used to get more bang for the buck.

@schw06 

If tube MHDT DACS are on on your radar, you might also look into a classically trained musician-made DAC that is fast, alive and richly musical: Abbas DAC 2.4SE, or his other variants using different chips. After Meridian, Chord Quest, and other units, this one is leaps ahead in terms of soundstage, air and space, dynamics and tone. Made in the western suburbs of Kyiv. My 2.4SE+ was ordered and delivered during the war with no issues. If there are any, they are taken care of. Enjoy your search. 

@schw06. Re: Abbas DACS, Just saw this on Hifi Haven website, dated 10 Aug 2022, echoing my findings: “Both myself, the two local friends who also purchased a 2.4SE and now the new owner all agree that Abbas DACs are transformative. Hard to explain but simply put all other DACs we’ve heard till now sound like music being played from a stereo. With the Abbas put into the system it changes the sound in such a profound way that it’s as if music comes alive in the room and fleshes out into real instruments and singers into your room”.

Rockna Wavelight?  It has won over many others in my system.