DAC recommendations

Thank you USPS! An early delivery, Amperex are in and all music through Cambridge and ModWright dac. Too early to say anything of course. Just going to break in the tubes for a few weeks. 👍

lumin d2. mid-priced. accurate. simple. hard to beat. 

Lab 12 Ref

Audio Science Review of the Musetec 005: 

Good luck!

You do not need a better DAC.

Thank you vthokie83. I am real tempted with the Venus 2 or Terminator 2. Like you mentioned, the accuracy of playing the recording can be good or bad depending on the recording. Sometimes the Topping can be too revealing. I have noticed Tidal’s Master recordings seem to take that edge off of harsh recordings. But, limited to only 4 or 5 hours of listening yesterday. I’m curious to see how the tube upgrade will affect the sound. Warm and clear sounding would be optimal. The cheap tubes it came with lack clarity. I will find out tomorrow. 🙏

I believe the new PS Audio DSD MKII will meet all your criterion.  It is the most natural sounding DAC I have had in my system.  Very natural sounding, large well defined sound stage (side to side and front and back)  that extends quite a bit beyond my speakers and for me is right in the goldilocks zone.  Not too analytical but full of incredible detail.  Also, because of the galvanic isolation, any noise is as far as I can tell non-existent and since it has FPGA, the unit can evolve.  It is a DAC you can listen to for hours and not get fatigued.  I believe they let you do a 30 day trial and all you do is pay shipping.  As you can see by the list below I am a PS fan but I have had the opportunity to try out lots of gear and I think the PS products give you a great bang for the buck.  

• PS Audio SACD Player
• Pass XP-32 Pre
• PS Audio DSD MKII
• BHK Amps
• Theil 3.7 speakers
• 2 Rel S/5 SHO Subs
• PS Audio P-20 Power Conditioner
• Cardas Clear Reflection Interconnects
• Audioquest Hurricane Power Cords
• Nordost Tyr II Speaker Cables
• VPI MKIII TT 

I know that this is out of your price range but I love my MSB Discrete DAC with Premier Power Supply, with the Renderer module.  If you can find one, the MSB Analog DAC used is in your price range and I thought that the soundstage was phenomenal -- better in some respects than the Discrete.

I currently own (and love) a Denafrips Pontus II DAC with a Denafrips Iris DDC, USB into the Iris and I2S from the Iris to the Pontus II. I compared this setup to the Venus II, and preferred the Pontus/Iris pairing. But that depends on your tastes. The sound is similar to the Musician Aquarius (also a great DAC) which is somewhere between the Pontus and Venus

The Pontus II combo is a warmer richer sound, but still with great soundstage width/depth and instrument separation. Sound is clean, great impact, forgiving on recordings, and not at all sibilant or unforgiving The Venus is more neutral and detailed, which means it will give you what the recording provides......good and bad. To me then sound signature is similar to a Chord Qutest, which I found to be a little too unforgiving and fatiguing for long listening sessions.

The Pontus II and Iris pairing is about $2,400 and the Venus II is about $3,100.....unfortunately Denafrips does not have a trial period, so recreating that comparison is difficult in your home. The Musician Aquarius is about $2,700.

Best of luck

Well I’m off Air Play and the streamer has been significantly improved. Amperex tubes arrive tomorrow. That will allow me to play both a tube dac and an accurate Topping. I hope this will be sufficient and I won’t know until I put some quality months on each unit. At the very least, I will gain more dac experience and I can always buy a “better” one next year. 
By the way, Tidal already sounds better. I have noticed the Master level needs a bit more volume but some of the old jazz recordings sound excellent. Thanks for responding. 

I think you'll be chasing your tail until you get off of Airplay and maybe look for another streamer.  

If you want a clear and natural sounding DAC without breaking the bank, consider the latest DACs from Mytek. The Liberty II and the forthcoming next model up (not sure if it’s out yet). In the past their DACs were criticized for leaning analytical, but that’s not what I heard in the Liberty II. It’s around $850 used…think you’d have to spend $2-3k to appreciably better it.

I went with Tidal since it’s supported on the Cambridge itself. Otherwise, I would have to download the app like Air Play. Not sure it makes a difference but it’s worth a try. Now I need to find where the file resolution is located to see where I’m at compared to Apple Music. Usually right under title but Tidal is different. 

So land line in today and hooked up tomorrow. Yay! First step done. Will do Qobuz tomorrow as well. 
Anyone have any thoughts on P.S. Audio Direct Stream mk2 dac? I recently purchased a power conditioner and may trade it in. It’s a thought but there aren’t many reviews of their dacs. 

I bet those Mystique X’s sound nice. Don’t really want to spend 5k let alone 8k though. Would be nice. 

Contact Ben at Mojo Audio. Also go to his website

where you can access numerous reviews of Mojo's

offerings. He has discounted his most latest DAC.

Ben offers a 30 day return policy.

Alright. Amperex tubes ordered. Qobuz tomorrow and then a holding pattern until I evaluate sound. Thanks again for the advice and voices of reason. 👍

Thanks Soix and jjss49. Sweet. I will get Qobuz up and running tomorrow. Just got word from the landlord that we will run the line tomorrow or Wednesday. Only hiccup is he has an outdoor system running off of it, Sonos, and there’s a million wires. Not sure what’s open to use on the router. His audio guy will have to come and hook it up. At least Qobuz will be Wi-Fi’ed. Friday I will order better tubes for the dac. Still may replace Topping with the Venus 2. Not sure I need to go as speedy with the Terminator to get very good sound. There’s always better but the old diminishing returns adage is applicable here! Thanks again 

I’m not just looking to spend more money jjss49. My previous system lasted 25 years because I bought quality equipment. I’m looking to do the same now. I’m not a person that wants to continually tweek my system.

glad to hear 👌👍

I currently have a cheap dac and a more expensive dac and would like to improve that segment of the sound. Speakers are great and amp is wonderful. Dac I’m not thrilled with but it’s good , just not great. So I figure I can take a chance at a higher end model.

here is my take on this... you have a cheap dac and a very very good performing expertly modded dac/streamer... the fact you cannot hear the substantial sonic quality difference between the two is very telling -- this is because of the poor quality how you have chosen to currently feed both of them -- the streaming service, the interface, and thus resulting poor quality digital feed into either/both units you own

you are focused on the dac, but the dacs you have are like having a toyota and a mercedes but you are feeding both lousy gas, so they both run badly

I have no aversion selling something if it is not acceptable to me, Zu speakers for example. As far as front end, Cambridge got great reviews and is used as a reference for Steve from Decware whose living is based on quality sound. I will also give Qobuz a try. I wouldn’t think that high resolution Apple could be too different from high resolution Qobuz, but I will find out. 😀🙏🏻

you don’t just have a factory cambridge cxnv2, you have a modwright modded unit... correct?? ....  dan wright has substantially improved the power supply, isolation, AND output stage of an already well-regarded, capable factory unit....

good you have an appointment to install hardwire ethernet... but your cambridge has a wifi plug-in module, it can pull in qobuz via wifi - i can assure you that you will....

1) hear an improvement streaming from qobuz via the cambridge using wifi (compared to apple music/airplay), then....

2) the sound will improve further when you connect into the cxn2 via hardwire ethernet... and then

3) it will improve further when you get an etherregen or eno filter to clean the ethernet feed

have fun... if... after 1, 2 and 3 are done, and you still want to try a terminator or a holo may, then your money might be more wisely spent at that point

Gentlemen. Do I need the land line connection to the router to get started with Qobuz. 

No.

If you can, try and listen a Lampizator DAC. You will get best of both worlds…

I use an older Lampizator Gen4 Level5 and kept it against an Aqua LaVoce.

newer Lampizator models should be way better, mine looks more like a pré production model, still it sounds so beautiful, piano sounds like a real

piano, voices are lifelike, bass is big, soundstage fill

the whole room. The only DAC I listened to that would make me trade it is a Accuphase DC 1000 but it’s 25k and out of my budget.

I purchased the Denafrips Venus II a few months ago, I think it checks the boxes on your list.  I have been pleased with its performance so far.  

Gentlemen. Do I need the land line connection to the router to get started with Qobuz. Cambridge uses the Streamlogic app, which I currently use which is also good with Qobuz. I use Wi-Fi now. I know land will be better, but is it necessary? 

So I read up more on Apple Music and it does appear that there is some processing, or lack there of, going on that essentially makes their high def files not as good. A poster here pointed it out and I followed up this morning. It’s pretty shitty of Apple to introduce their lossless format but not go the entire way. Needless to say, I will be taking the advice of all those who suggested Qobuz. My goal today is to get an appointment for the land line installation. Once that occurs, download Qobuz and the reevaluate. 

I wouldn't buy anything until you get your streaming service sorted out.  I use Tidal and Qobuz, but also have Apple Music as part of my cell phone plan.  No matter what I do, streaming Apple Music via AirPlay 2 just doesn't sound right to my ears. I know it is limited to 16/44, but I still have 16/44 files and CDs that sound much more natural.  

Maybe I'm missing something here.  To me, it does not make sense to upgrade an already-good DAC (or two) without first moving on from the low-res Airplay/WiFi connection.  

Stick with Apple Music if you like, but ditch Airplay/WiFi (for music playback) by connecting a headless Mac to your DAC via USB cable.  Then control the Mac from your listening position via laptop/tablet/phone with screen-sharing (or whatever connection your devices support). This  setup would support HiRes file playback from Apple Music ... or from another service such as Tidal or Qobuz.

My Border Patrol dac sounds quite nice to me, especially with the tube circuit engaged. I use it with my Cyrus transport. 

No one has pointed out the obvious. I say change your speakers I use to own ANe- lx. This AN speaker shows you a beautiful forest but you can’t make out the trees in it! Good luck! 😊

I have a Musician Aquarius R2R dac and it’s the best digital by FAR I’ve had in my system and it’s also the 1st R2R dac I’ve heard or owned. No idea how it measures but the damn thing makes everything sound awesome! Like it makes early 90s metal sound good! I don’t get it but it does. I’ve always owned Delta Sigma stuff in the past in the under 2k range so ymmv . 

The Holo May or Spring were the first dacs I was really interested in early on. I spoke to my amp builder and he wasn’t thrilled with the 5.8 vrms. I didn’t question why, just crossed it off the list. Under 5 and more than 2 is my range. The Holo dacs appear to be awesome options. 

Fan of separate DAC and streamer, for upgrade reasons. Holo Audio May DAC KTE, and Denafrips Terminator II are both about $5,000; best I’ve ever heard

I'm very happy with my Lumin X1, but definitely more than $6,500 new.  I'm only playing my own library, not streaming from any services, so I have it set in Roon Only mode.  

My Roon Core is a Synology DS1821+ NAS.  My NAS goes into a Cisco SG200-26 Gb switch and I'm going by Gb fiber from the switch to my Lumin.  .  

Roon's new ARC app is great for accessing my library while away from home.

FWIW, I've been digitizing my old LPs with an M2Tech Joplin MKIII.  Anything new I'm purchasing as FLAC files.

I’m not just looking to spend more money jjss49. My previous system lasted 25 years because I bought quality equipment. I’m looking to do the same now. I’m not a person that wants to continually tweek my system. I currently have a cheap dac and a more expensive dac and would like to improve that segment of the sound. Speakers are great and amp is wonderful. Dac I’m not thrilled with but it’s good , just not great. So I figure I can take a chance at a higher end model. I have no aversion selling something if it is not acceptable to me, Zu speakers for example. As far as front end, Cambridge got great reviews and is used as a reference for Steve from Decware whose living is based on quality sound. I will also give Qobuz a try. I wouldn’t think that high resolution Apple could be too different from high resolution Qobuz, but I will find out. 😀🙏🏻 

You are not the first person to suggest the Gaia DDC rooze. I’m not really familiar with it or it’s function. Clock related I think? Sounds like a good potential upgrade in the future after I figure the rest of this system out. 
 

Hello Earthbound!  I have eight DACs, admittedly none of the multi thousand dollar ones, and I recommend the Sony HPA-3. It's one of those portable DAC/headphone units. It is very musical, uncolored, and is a joy to listen to. It was immediately apparant that is was more pleasant to listen to than any of the others on hand (SMSLM500, Pre Box S2, Merridian Explorer2, Dragonfly Black, etc). I suspect the Sony has been discontinued. I was able to get one, new -in the box, at half price from a local hi-fi shop. Happy Listening!

@earthbound the main weakness is your Airplay front end from the switch and cables through to your streamer. Get a good switch with a clock and good cables and a Lumin U2, then subscribe to Qobuz and or Tidal and don’t bother spending more until after you upgrade your tubes in your Cambridge. If feel you want a one box solution for cheaper you could just buy a Gustard R26 which I prefer to my Terminator II and use DLNA or Roon instead of Apple. Or if price becomes no object when you get serious upgraditis, get the Lumin AND the Lampizator Baltic 3 which is the same price as the Terminator Plus, but by far my favorite DAC I’ve ever had in my system.

I’m aware that many dislike the Border Patrol DAC or possibly just the idea & maybe measurements but problem not from actual listening experience. I think it fits your description of what you’re looking for. It’s very natural sounding & not fatiguing like I’ve found some other highly touted ones. I think they’ll let you do a home trial. Check it out.

You have gotten a pair of top notch speakers that was highly appraised by Stereophile especially known for its soundstage, expensive / high quality amp, state of the art streamer and a highly hyped DAC.  I do not understand why you settle down with Air Play streaming that is non-gapless, 16/44.1 limited, not smooth music playing.  Do you youself a favor, just try 1 month free Qobuz, sense the difference and then you could make a sensible decision if you wish to continue throwing money to rabbit holes.  No offense please.  Happy Xmas.

+1 Gustard R26 which includes an onboard streamer.  A lot of good info on headfi about this DAC. 

@earthbound

merry christmas

from what i am reading in your responses, you seem pretty determined to buy a more expensive dac rather than get the right streaming service and front end delivery method

indeed there are many ways to have fun in this hobby... reading glowing reviews and then buying expensive things based on that can well be part of it, that is perfectly fine if one can afford it... but please don’t mistake that for truly improving system sound quality, especially in your case, as many folks with experience making digital streamed music sound its best have already commented

it’s wise to understand what is the real bottleneck or weak link in one’s setup and address that as the priority - you seem to have made efforts to wisely choose your gear to this point (audio notes in place of zus, for example)

Forgive me if someone has already noted the Arcam ST60. It is far less expensive at $1650.00 but would be interested if any owners weigh in. Hans Beekhuyzen has an extensive review. I have the NAD C658 and have been considering getting the Arcam. If the YouTube link fails, just search on Hans' channel and you'll find his good reviews. 

The Denafrips Terminator is a great choice. I had the original with updated DSP board and it sounded wonderful. I should never have sold it and still haven’t replaced it. In the future if you have some spare cash and feel like moving up the ladder another rung you can easily add a Denafrips GAIA DDC. That will give you i2s connection to the Terminator and another noticeable gain in resolving power.

Hey,

If you need piano or other instruments to sound real. Try Amadi Cables.  The MONIC. It will dig out all the bass notes and makes instruments sound real. Mid range is like the singer is right in the room . 

Yes. I agree. That’s why I’m going the r2r route. Funny how I’ve learned that I prefer the analog sound more. I had AR floor speakers many years ago then went Rotel and B&W for 25 years. Now that I’m auditioning, I just like that mellower 70’s sound with a modern twist. That’s why I went with Audio Note speakers. Purchased Zu Soul Supremes first. They rock but just too much for my ears and brain. 

No brainer buy the Gustard R26 and add an external clock. The R26 is r2r which is what you need to get away from your descriptions of what you don’t like in your current set up.

I think I’m leaning towards having Santa deliver the Denafrips Terminator 2. In for a penny, in for a pound. I think I may keep my Cambridge streamer and order the Denafrips. I’ve just heard so many good things that I feel it will last to the final dirt nap! Not entirely sure yet but almost there. I think it’s got a lot of quality at a not so crazy price. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a lot of money. Actually, it’s my summer vacation! But, I listen to hours of music everyday and that’s a wonderful vacation everyday! Plus, if you can’t treat yourself well, who will?

@earthbound 

One more from the peanut gallery

I switched from a DAC comparable to the Topping (similar price and benchmarks on ASR) to the Benchmark DAC3 - the improvement exceeded all expectations - just delightful. One of the biggest impacts I’ve heard on my system in a long time. I won’t bother with the adjectives other than “presence” and “immersion”. If my memory is correct, they have a customer-friendly return policy enabling you to try one out

The Benchmark is not MQA compatible, but of course handles hi-res. I’ve decided that I will investigate MQA the next time I upgrade my DAC (5 year cycle, thereabouts)

Let us know how the experiment comes along!

All the best to everyone on this holiday morning

@earthbound - to possibly expand your options - my streamer (Lyngdorf TDAI 3400) does wireless streaming, but I was getting frequent dropouts with wireless. Like your situation, my media cabinet is about 50' from my router and a wired connection is not a practical option. So I replaced my Comcast router with an ASUS Mesh system, with one of the ASUS devices in the media cabinet connected to the Lyngdorf via ethernet. That setup has been 100% stable for almost a year now. BTW - before going with the ASUS I tried using a Netgear network extender. For whatever reason, that did not do a good job of maintaining a connection with the Comcast router.

A lot of good suggestions guys. Thank you. I have some homework to do after the mornings festivities. It’s crazy when you start shopping, just how many dacs and set ups are out there. 

I'm an airplay user as well, I think the ultimate DAC for that is the Chord Hugo M Scaler/ TT2 combination. The high res streaming claims by most all the streaming platforms is inconsequential in relations to the 16x upscaling of the M Scaler. It seems as if it was made for streaming.

Icing on the cake, but add in a clean network switch, DDC and 10Mhz master clock and you'll be in heaven. Thats what I'm running and have been very happy with it.