*DAC

@jacobsdad2000 Cool, do the manufacturers you mention sell the DIY stuff or is it other companies? I could DYI

If your equipment supports the AES Standard, then your XLR cables won't make much difference. (if not, or you aren't sure just search for 'Atmasphere' or PM him directly. He can provide great info).

DIY is something you probably don't want to try, unless you have some experience-Not that you can't do it, but there are some subtleties that you should know before undertaking the task. (Perhaps PM @eric squires).

And, to try to keep you from chasing your tail. I think PM'ing John Rutan (Audioconnection) would be the best way to go. 

Bob

@boomerbillone Do you mean Audio Sensibility? Great stuff from them.

@navyachts I owned bluejeans XLRs and still own a set of RCAs. I also own and use Canare 4S11 speaker cables with my AVR and just for 💩s and giggles 🤭 tried them in my main rig. None of these cables belong in the system the caliber of yours. 

Here’s how I would tackle the cable upgrade path -

1. Upgrade speaker cables. Stay with major brands for this system (Kimber, Nordost, Transparent, Audioquest, Audience). I used Audience AU24SX with my Montis and still use them with the Wilsons I have now. You can pick up a used pair for a reasonable price. I would also recommend looking into Nordost Frey 2 or Tyr 2.  I would upgrade interconnects or power cords next. With the length you need for the interconnects it would be more economical to tackle power cords first. You will get a good amplifier of improvement with upgraded power cords. Once again, look for major brands, used. Audioquest Hurricane, would be nice on those amps. Audience AU24SEi works great with digital and is a good deal used.  
But I would start with the amp for power cable upgrade and move up the chain from there. 

Downside with the cable upgrades without having your dac up to the task is that you will hear what it is and isn’t doing right. So you weren’t down to last piece of the puzzle. Hehehe 

OP, You are correct, both of those boxes are combined. My bad. You definitely want just the DAC function. I did some research on sound quality.. and didn’t pay attention to the functions close enough. This price range is not my specialty.

However, for very musical but with detail in the used market I can definitely recommend the Audio Research Reference 9 DAC or maybe one iteration before that. I never thought of ARC and DACs… until I heard one. 

Sure.  Naim Core server, Weiss 501 DAC, Jorma digital cable, Luxman 900u preamp, ATC 50 active speakers, custom interconnects, Furutech 4.1 power cables, Townshend podiums, Puritan 156 power conditioner, Furutech outlet, Quadraspire Reference X equipment stand, GIK diffusers.

Hope that helps.  Cheers

I would also add to the OCC single crystal list harmonic technology and acoustic Zen their prices are very reasonable.

@audphile1 WOW, thanks for all that! and @celtic66 U2

@wsrrsw Audio Sensibly is probably who he means. I purchased my dedicated 12AWG Cryo-Treated Romex from.

@gdnrbob Yes, I'm AES standard, so good to go!

@jacobsdad2000 Thanks for the link!

I think I need a second job...

Weiss DAC 204 $3,500, T+A 200 $7,000, or Denafrips Terminator II 12th $5,000.....or Denafrips Terminator Plus 12th $7,700.

Personally if $5,000 is what I had, I'd go with the Terminator II which is a GREAT DAC....but if I had the extra I'd buy the T+A or Terminator Plus; both are end game DACs in my world.

@vthokie83 SWEET! Have you heard them all?

navyachts,

I've had the Terminator II and Terminator Plus II (not the newer 12th versions) in my system on loan for 2 months earlier this year (I currently own a Denafrips Pontus II).

The T+A 200 frequently in a friend's system I know well.....and envy. Same guy replaced the Weiss with the T+A, but he liked it and has kept it for his second system.....I just have yet to hear it myself though.

navyachts,

are you in Vancouver BC so am I

@navyachts

I am very happy with the sound of my system at this point, so I’m not sure if the DAC needs to be improved on.  What I am looking for is to hear those background subtleties in the music a little more pronounced.

What a beautiful bay/lake view from your room. Having such a relaxing room is a huge plus, I have the same.  I like the above recommendations for new power cords but think that something like the Zavfino Fina OCC power cable that sells in the $350 range would do the trick.

But being very happy with your sound and just wanting a little more detail, I would not think twice about the purchase of a Schiit Lokius 6 band graphic equalizer for about $300 and ever so gently boost your treble and upper mids or whatever suits your preferences.

Someone has voiced every component we own, with an EQ you can subtly tailor that sound to your preference.  Then, if you still feel the need, you can consider a bigger component change.  Just my humble opinion.

@magnuman Born in New Westminster and lived all over the lower Mailand during my time in Canada. 16 years ago I moved to WA state (dually) and have commuted to work in south Surrey since then on a daily basis.

@jetter Thank you, Lummi Bay part of the Salish Sea. Yes, I have heard of the Lokius and will give it further consideration. I have also seen the Zavfino power cable come up in an on-line search. I have some real tight spots to deal with and I think the longer than normal plug ends would hamper some of my equipment placement. But thank you for all your suggestions.

@audphile1  "So you weren’t down to last piece of the puzzle. Hehehe" LOL!

Did you upgrade your power cords on you Montis's as well?

Both coaxes arrived a couple hours ago. Figured I would start with the Odin 2 Gold to compliment my ICs and speaker cables

All I did was treat the connectors with Mad Science Audio Graphene Contact Enhancer. Both will take a few days to be at their best, but already it's an amazing improvement on literally all aspects of the music; depth, width, height, and bass

First CD is Jennifer Nettles Playin With Fire, a bright sounding CD in my system: Well not anymore. After playing it, I put on my XLO Burn in Disc and came downstairs to report

HTH

@tweak1 LOL!

I would check out Ferrum Wandla DAC. $3K I think. Awesome reviews. No experience personally, but if I was in the market for a DAC under $5K, I would try it.

@navyachts I tried Audience Forte F3 power cables on the Montis and there was a slight improvement. I didn’t bother buying better cables though as I’ve made up my mind on a speaker upgrade. I did like the Montis though, they were nice. Your 13A are newer and a lot better as far as bass integration with the panels and overall sound quality. You’re on the right path with your upgrade strategy.

I say get a couple Schuman wave generators, I buy the $50 nobsound ones on Amazon, they are in a wood case and look much nicer than the cheap plastic $10 ones, but they really add a smoother more analog sound quality without touching anything in your system.

Also I highly recommend changing all your fuses to Synergistic Research purple fuses, I couldn't believe how much more natural and analog they make your sound, I did the fuses in my amp first just to try it since I was skeptical, then I quickly did my DAC, Aurender and preamp...

Rockna Wavelight.  Very happy with mine.

@fred60 Thanks Fred, are you 60?

@audphile1 Thanks for your insight and help, much appreciated!

@fpomposo How many wave generators do you put in your listening room, is it based on square feet? One day, I may try the fuse upgrade, thanks for the tips?

I have two wave generators, one in the front and one behind me. I'd just try one too start, I've had my cousin who is the least audiophile person notice the difference when I A/B on/off tested it on her. My buddy has the Acoustic Revive one that is like $700 but I feel like the cheap ones are almost as good, and the Nobsound one looks pretty nice.

I also gotta agree with some of the other posts, I'm a big fan of Acoustic Zen cables, I have the Absolute coppers and they are so crazy good, also love the Matrix Reference and Silver Reference, they are like getting a component upgrade.

Big fan of Gold Note DACs -  I have the DS10 with optional external power supply.  You can get the updated version of this for about $5k (and maybe less as there seem to be sale prices available possibly related to US distribution changes underway).  I did a shootout with a friend’s DCS Bartok (not Apex).  He preferred his, I preferred mine, but we agreed the Gold Note held its own for much less $.

Re cables, I’m a fan of Triode Wire Labs - great value for $.  (Full disclosure, however:  I am not an experienced cable swapper - to me, life is way too short to spend much time on cables.  Instead, I’ve relied on opinions and reviews of people who seem to have similar system priorities to mine.)

@mdalton Hey, thanks for your input, much appreciated!

Audio Note UK (audionote.co.uk) -- recently picked up a DAC 2.1x Signature and I’ve never heard digital sound so natural and harmonically rich before, especially with jazz, just awesome

Also, I saw you weren’t DIY adverse, so worth a mention is Audio Note Kits (ankaudiokits.com) they use some Audio Note UK parts and ’similar’ schematics but they are not affiliated. I’ve seen people report success with their kits

If you want nuance it starts with noise and jitter.

stock cables won’t cut it.  Blue jean cables won’t cut it.  There are no cheap cables that perform as well as good cables.  AV noise reduction is a must.  Then some kind of grounding box. Then you can hear what a good DAC can bring.

There is a difference between a $1000 power cord and a $500 power cord(or practically any other cord) 

Spend at least as much on cables and electrical noise as you do for the DAC.

This is what helped my system.  I'm sure you have done some of these things.  I went for low cost options that ended up paying off.

Dedicated power line or if you use lots of power.

EMI/RFI filter on incoming power

EMI/RFI on router from internet Co.

EMI/RFI on ethernet cable to streamer.

Power cords

Good interconnects.  Use contact enhancer.  Stabilant 22 is reasonable. 

Isolate speakers from floor. Spikes won't do it.

Use a good equipment rack

Isolate all components.  I used Herbie's.

You could do this and then the DAC.  Just my thoughts.  

I have Chord TT2 with Mscaler, and a pair of TeddyPardo LPS. I think the new PS Audio Direct Stream MK2 would be a great choice especially pre-loved. Chord Dave is way out of your range. Maybe a Chord Qutest, with an MScaler. I looked at your system. Lose the blue jeans cables they aren’t even close to the level of your system. You need to upgrade all your cables and add a really good power line conditioner. Depending on how deep you want to dive you could do something like all AudioQuest. Thats would be simple and a huge improvement in sound quality. You could also do all Shunyata. My system is all Audience FrontRow for signal. USB, speaker, interconnect. Then all Shunyata for Power. Upgrading all your cables and power will be a monumental improvement. 

Hmmm... Sorting through all the great comments and recommendations made for DAC’s/cables, etc., perhaps your R26 DAC choice may not need to be replaced... Yet... Tweaks such as analog/digital cabling, making sure your Ethernet signals are clean from the modem to the server if you’re using one, can enhance your music enjoyment prior to changing DAC’s. I personally have a Terminator-Plus DAC and the sound from it is superb. However just adding in an Ethernet Regenerator from Uptone-Audio took the micro-detail and dynamics up a notable level, making the streamed music sound extremely close to the music stored on the SSD drive in my music server. Also, good digital cabling makes notable positive differences in sound quality. What I’ve found along my digital journey is that it’s not always the price/type of the digital component as it is the ability to make changes that will minimize noise/jitter. Ie... Precision clocking, better digital cabling, (good grounding) minimizing noise, cleaning up the Ethernet and USB signals with Ethernet and USB regenerators, have helped me better hear changes in different digital equipment. Finally, if you have the ability to audition another local audiophile’s DAC or a local stereo shop will lend one to you to audition, this in my opinion will be better than just buying something. Synergy of components in your specific system is of real importance. Good luck in your search !

IMHO if you want pluckier guitar plucks and other sharper transients, that's probably not a DAC thing.  You can spend the thousands on the DACs that are recommended above and I doubt it will highlight transients more than your current DAC.

Unless you're talking about transient bass events (then it's a subwoofer or bass driver question), to me that is largely a speaker issue that is also heavily dependent on source material. The good news is that playing with the toe-in on your speakers can make a big difference.  But ultimately if you are not happy with the pluckiness of the guitar plucks, speakers are what you'd look at.

Also, be careful what you wish for.  When your system reinforces those plucky transients, you are also in danger of brightness and sibilance.  So you may very well get what you want at the expense of long-term listener fatigue. 

Audio is about compromises.  

@theeraser I have heard good things about Audio Note as well.

@daledeee1 Could you elaborate on the EMI/RFI filters and how to hook them up please?

@anzaanimalclinic Drastic!

@axeis1 Same as the Audio Note, hears the TT2 and MScaler were a great match up. but pricey!

@liquidsound Good common-sense advice, thank you.

@jji666 Did I say common sense? Well said sir!

@navyachts

I tried low cost options. Until recently, there were so many people who said it doesnt matter, so I wanted to try the low cost option in case these changes didn’t work.You could spend multiple times more. I think noise is a really big deal when it comes to streaming sound quality.

It all started when my cable company gave me a 1 piece router and modem. It came with a LPS, and one less connection. Hmm, that might have helped. Cost: free

I also purchased ethernet filters from DX Engineering. They are inserted at each end of the line. My ethernet line is about 40 ft. Definite improvement Cost: $50

I have a BJC Cat 6 or 6a. Lots of debate here about what to use. This one cost $40.

I have a Bluesound Node 2i. I added a new power supply, not "the best" but it made a big improvement in weight and clarity. Cost: 130. Even Lumin has companies making aftermarket power supplies, so check this out.

My crossover is old. It is DIY. My friend built it using Marchand boards. It says 1986 on the boards. I sent it in and had good jacks and volume controls replaced. RCA connectors can allow noise in. Volume controls can dull the sound.  The old ones got dirty and had to be cleaned. The new volume controls have gold contacts. works great. This was a marked sound improvement. I was shocked when I thought about the cumulative improvements. My latest thinking is Rhodium coated RCA plugs with Carbon covers.Cost 250

I kept saying " I’ve got to get some surge protection.  I had read some opinions that power conditioners actually degrading the sound. Based on advise here, once again I went for a low cost yet helpful option. I purchased a Firman Elite 15i. I plugged in everything . It is debated about plugging amps into a power conditioner. Pass Labs: "if you have dirty power, you can plug into a conditioner " once again, more improvement. How much more can I improve? It is getting addicting!

I have read that our house electrical wiring is actually a grid that allows interference to travel every direction, so the next thing was look around for wall warts, small switching power supplies, very noisy. Cell phone chargers, lamps, computer equipment, many of them all over the place. I purchased Furman Ss6B. These are not as good for electrical interference but do clean up the power. They would lower the contamination and it would be cleaned further by the Furman 15i. Small improvement. SS6B was 30 each.

I try to keep power cords at a right angle. Insulation on interconnects, speaker cable and power cords is important.

So as you can see EMI RFI sneaks in everywhere. Contact enhancer, tight connections, quality connectors, filters. I read alot to sort out the advise. I will continue to search for improvements. Meanwhile my system is not fatiguing, very clear, lots more music is there. Everything sounds full yet neutral. Bass articulation was a surprising benefit. Quieter listening levels sound good while maintaining bass presence. I had to figure out this since I basically had a cobbled together system with no local help. Four years into this, it has been very encouraging to find these low cost improvements.I have an ADD,-POWER Symphony IO that also changed the sound for the better. At this point, all I know is the sum of improvements sound improvements make friends say WTF when they listen! Good luck, I hope this made sense.

Hello all.  Im in a similar situation.  Would upgrading to a preamp solve the issue and take the DAC out of the equation.  

@redphu72 I am not sure I understand the question, which I see you have also posted in another DAC discussion. It might be best to start a new post as many here have moved on.

my 2 cents

the r26 is really excellent, one would truly need a mega system to hear significant sonic benefit to pricier dacs - i feel it strikes a wonderful balance between uber clarity and musicality, and it has very good spatial qualities

i would work on getting the feed into the r26 is clean and pure as possible to let it be at its best before getting on the dac merry go round (the front end improvements would benefit most other more expensive dac choices as well)

i use the r26 in a roon based system, it is truly excellent

@jjss49 thank for the perk! I do have the Ethernet in to my Aurender N200 going through a pair of fiber media converters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp20Ju-ABoE then from the N200 into the R26 with DH Labs cable. I have tried both USB and coaxial and I think USB sounds better. Although I found the renderer in the R26, feed by ethernet, to sound very good as well. I don’t think the N200 sound $4000 better than the R26 but I can’t really tun back now (thanks ghdprentice)

Any other suggestions (as in better front-end improvements) would greatly be appreciated!

@navyachts I agree USB sounds better with the N200 but would also like to add that the fiber converters degraded the sound in my system. I’d say try and remove them, go straight into the N200 with a good Ethernet cable and see if you still like the fiber converters after you hear it as is. 

@audphile1 thanks, will do! Off to AZ to look after my Dad, I'll try this when I get back. Any suggestion on ethernet cables? 

LinkUp Ethernet cable from amazon is very decent. I toss it in once in a while.
I mainly use Purist Audio Design though. Audioquest Vodka and Diamond are raved about on these pages. I haven’t tried these in my system but I can immediately hear the difference between the LinkUp and the Purist…will be interesting to compare Purist to AQ..

I've used Supra and LinkUp in my humble system.  They are both excellent, but for me the Supra synergy with my system won out.

If you do decide to try the Supra, be sure to buy the CAT 8+ from eBay seller zendada.  He has free shipping, versus one of the other sellers is in England with a hefty postage charge.

Oh yeah thanks @jetter! +1 on Supra. Forgot about that. I used it as well. I even tried the Audio Sensibility version terminated with the Telegartner RJ45 connectors. 

@audphile1 @jetter ok, thanks for hangin' in with me, I will definitely do these upgrades soon.

Just try it without the fiber converters first before you do any upgrades. I’m curious what it’ll do in your system. Whenever you have time. 

I want to say that my experience with Bel Canto has been a joke as far as customer service goes No phone calls excepted email only  My dac bel canto 3.7 with not work with a direct c to USB cable into Mac Book  they offer no advise at all  They could have said to try a STREAMER Bingo I am selling my B. C dac ASAP

I'm in a similar place as you.. very much liking the sound of my system but still considering moves to make for hearing more into the music. I just ordered one of Benjamin's new Mojo Audio dacs after being very impressed with his power cables and interconnects. My Yamamoto amp is a keeper. My Sonist Concerto 3 loudspeakers continue to readily reveal component and cable changes. No complaints with an ANK 4.1x dac, however, the things I've read about the Mojo dacs have peaked my curiosity. I listen mostly to jazz.

@nrthomas2 sounds interesting but there's no links to anything on his website?

https://benjaminaudio.com/?fbclid=IwAR3_wKJOFsp323YQ1c5N9-S8JjFsQ51Ox29g8RWG56TZwBsNvbn-dQB3GjI

@geleary123 thanks for the heads up on Bel Canto, sorry for your troubles.

My apologies for being vague. Mojo Audio is the company. Benjamin is the owner's first name:) I just preordered one of his new Mystique dacs. 

@nrthomas2 OK, got it. His stuff ain't cheap! Let me know how it sounds compared to what ya got. Thanks.

No. Not cheap:) But, having been in this hobby for many years I think his prices are more than reasonable. It is easy to make lateral moves in any given price range. I'm not interested in lateral moves these days. I love the sound of my ANK dac and realize that to get more music (via a dac change) I will likely need to spend at least 5k. Given my current system this seems like rational decision. I'll let you know how things go.