Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

Reposting Cube Audio’s Nenuphar V2 versus the V1 Driver comparison...so it’s at the top of the page. From YouTube:

Cube Audio Nenuphar V2 vs V1 Full Range Loudspeakers

He definitely had the Enleum...not the Bakoon. Guess it was the 23. His speakers are AG Duo’s and Fleetwood Deville. Obviously different results with different speakers so take it for what its worth. The Valvet is about Half the price of the Enleum but you cant use it as a space heater or fry an egg on it so it does have some disadvantages

I definitely prefer the V2 for the extended highs over the Original but not sure my room can handle the extra bass.  Maybe I will have to wait for the V3 which has the extended highs but not the bass bump  :)

Thanks @david_ten it's indeed helpful. Did anyone of you here upgraded to v2 and can share your experience ?

He definitely had the Enleum...not the Bakoon. Guess it was the 23. His speakers are AG Duo’s and Fleetwood Deville. Obviously different results with different speakers so take it for what its worth. The Valvet is about Half the price of the Enleum but you cant use it as a space heater or fry an egg on it so it does have some disadvantages

I had auditioned the Valvet e2se a while back with the Nenuphars but much preferred the SIT3. I found the Valvet to have more highs than the FW but it and the midrange was also a bit grainy for my taste. I have not heard the E3, so do not know how it compares to the previous version but I am sure all these amps are stellar with the Cubes.

Did anyone pair a Luxman 590AXII with the Nenuphars ? Seems like a possible good candidate.

I love the sound of both versions! Really wonderful sounding speakers. I found a slight preference for the V2 which sounded a bit more complete to me. However, I would need to be in that room listening to be sure.

The Vcap Odams are great in speaker crossovers. Vibrant and so very open. They are also easy to fit due to their relatively small size. However, I would say they are my 2nd choice in this particular speaker. The best choice, if you can afford them, would be the Duelund SnCu CAST caps. This is their tinned copper foil cap. The richness, realism and natural tone of this cap would be a better match in this speaker. I think this speaker would benefit from the body, richness and meat of this cap. The Odam may deliver more perceived air and liveliness, but I just don’t think this speaker is asking for “more” of these attributes. Just my opinion.

If these are too costly, then the Jupiter copper foil cap is also a great choice. Keep in mind the size of both the Jupiter and Duelund can be quite large depending on the value you need.

I am making an assumption these speakers don’t currently have a top tier copper foil cap in them. If they do,  then wonderful and leave them be 🙂.

Grannyring,

This is a full range driver.  It has no crossover, no caps, no parts 

@grannyring thanks for the feedback on the Vcap odams. Yes, I agree with you that they have an open and a bit bold character which may not be suitable for this speaker in particular.

I am making an assumption these speakers don’t currently have a top tier copper foil cap in them. If they do,  then wonderful and leave them be

The Nenuphar is a full range single driver speaker with no crossover. Amp straight to the driver.

https://www.cubeaudio.eu/cube-audio-nenuphar

@grannyring  Bill, for clarification; I assume you are referring to the video, correct?

I love the sound of both versions! Really wonderful sounding speakers. I found a slight preference for the V2 which sounded a bit more complete to me. However, I would need to be in that room listening to be sure.

@jonwatches1  Jon, I have not heard Voxativ in direct comparison. I strongly considered Voxativ when deciding on a single driver full range speaker; Holger Adler of Voxativ was a pleasure to engage with and was very helpful. 

In a recent post, @stephendunn makes reference to something that bothered him about Voxativ...perhaps he can comment or you can reach out to him via PM. He has extensive experience with the Nenuphars.

All the best in your choice.

Question: does anyone have experience comparing Voxativ with Cube? What were your impressions?  Thanks!

@david_ten 

Sorry, yes I am referring to the video.  

@ricevs 

That is what I thought! An owner posted he wanted to try Vcap Odams in his set? I started thinking perhaps the driver was concentric. Most sorry for my confusion. 

I have been meaning to add a Vcap ODAM in the Nenuphars. I have some on my linear power supply filter caps but I have not done played with it with the speakers. Anyone has any experience on how they perform on speakers

The Nenuphar is single driver and crossoverless. Where would one utilize a capacitor in this speaker?

Charles 

@jonwatches1 I auditioned the Voxativ Hagen speakers with a Voxativ sub driven by a Voxativ tube amp on three occasions--separate listening sessions at the same dealer, same set up. This was maybe 4 years ago, long before I had ever heard the Nenuphars, so it is obviously not a comparison. What bothered me at the time was an initially very attractive sound that I found fatiguing after about 20 minutes or so. I brought my own material in to play, same result. I found the highs to be forward and irritating on a lot of material. Could have been the digital front end (I don’t remember what that was), room, cables, etc.

The Nenuphar is single driver and crossoverless. Where would one utilize a capacitor in this speaker?

I was thinking maybe as a bypass cap to see if anything yields interesting. may not be a good idea after all :-)

A bypass cap is just a smaller value cap that goes in parallel with a larger value to extend and purify the signal as large capacitors are inductive (therefore not as pure or as extended as a smaller cap).  There is no cap in the Nenuphar.  If you bypassed the driver (across the hot and negative) you would be adding a filter.  A no no. What you want is to enhance the driver.....not diminish it.  Ground Enhancer, Bybee thang....hard wiring to the voice coil wire, better wire, eliminating the rear binding posts......these enhance the speaker.

I was thinking maybe as a bypass cap to see if anything yields interesting. may not be a good idea after all :-)

I gotcha , problem is there’s nothing to bypass (With a capacitor). Ultra minimalist speaker design and a main factor as to why its sound quality is so highly praised.

Charles

DON'T DO A STUPIDITY - THIS IS JUST A PROMOTIONAL ARTICLE... AFTER YOU CAN'T SELL IT... THE FULL RANGE IS THE ILLUSION OF A SIMPLE SOLUTION - IT IS NOT...

ENGLISH LOWTHER IN THE ORIGINAL (THIS IS IMPORTANT) CASE - 10 TIMES BETTER ...

AN EXTREMELY GOOD SIGNAL SOURCE IS NECESSARY... IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE.

Just for clarity; at the present time there is only one version of the Enleum and that’s the 23R. Any other references are for older Bakoon models.

ENGLISH LOWTHER IN THE ORIGINAL (THIS IS IMPORTANT) CASE - 10 TIMES BETTER ...

10x better than what? 

Quite a few happy Nenuphar owners have heard or owned other full range drivers and have decided to go  forward with Cube Audio offerings. There are numerous alternative choices available.  If Lowther drivers stoke your passion then go for it. A number of experienced listeners may prefer Cube Audio to Lowther.  YMMV.

Charles 

@ricevs  Please note this thread is specific to Cube Audio and the Nenuphar. You are free to start your own thread regarding another speaker. Thank you.

@david_ten - thanks so much for your kind response - really helpful - best - Jonathan

@stephendunn - thanks for sharing your impressions - much appreciated! - Jonathan

The Nenuphar is a complete system, so it is hard to compare with a driver.  So far, I haven't heard a single driver Lowther system I preferred to the Nenuphar, but, I haven't heard the Charney Audio system with the Lowther driver; I heard, and really liked their systems with AER and Voxativ drivers. 

These days, single driver systems are doing so much more to overcome the disadvantages of a single driver, while retaining the advantages, such that they are contenders in the high end arena.  For my taste, I like the two-way Nenuphar Basis and I still like really good horn-based systems more than single driver systems, but, I could live with a number of single driver systems I've heard. 

@larryi 

Have you heard the latest version of the Horning Aristotle Ellipse PM65. Spectacular! Love to compare it to the Cube Audio offerings. No resistors or inductors in the Horning.  Only one cap on the tweeter. True full range performance with outstanding speed and dynamics.  

@jonwatches1  You are welcome!  Keep us posted on what you choose. Reach out, should you have additional questions.

No, I have not heard the latest Horning Aristotle Ellipse.  I have heard other Horning speakers which are very dynamic and exciting sounding.  I do like their use of full range drivers as wide range drivers in multi-way systems.  Some of their systems sound a bit too bright or hard sounding for my taste, but, overall, I prefer that to the dead sound of most low-efficiency modern speakers.

Photos of Cube Audio Nenuphar speakers in a customer's home, courtesy of Mono and Stereo:

Cube Audio Nenuphar, system, room photos

david_ten

There is no such thing as a thread that only mentions one speaker. Already people are talking about Horning, Charney, Voxative, and whatever. Of course, people want to know how Cube compares to whatever.......this is what the game is about. Now, if the thread was titled....."Only Cube owners experiences, please"......then MAYBE you have a point.

Some people feel threatened by my comments on improving the speaker......and mentioning other speakers that are maybe way cheaper and could be alternatives........if you like feeling bad.....that is your choice. I suggest you choose joy no matter what the circumstance.....it feels much better and lifts everyone. My intention is to educate and inform......about audio and life.

In that vein, I will now mention a much better version of a Cube speaker.....an open baffle speaker you make yourself. You can buy the drivers in the US for something like $6,000 a pair delivered. You can take $500 worth of 3/4 inch 13 ply baltic birch plywood and 3/4 inch highly refined MDF and make a baffle 2 feet wide by four feet high. You also make wings that are one foot by four foot on each side going straight back (felt on the inside of the wings so the rear radiated highs will not bounce off the wings). You use the Birch for the front and rear and the MDF layer in between.....all baffles 2.25 inches thick. You mount the driver near the top of the baffle and use all my techniques and you will have way, way, way better sound than a stock Nenuphar......and on a baffle that is basically a four foot square folded back....you will have bass down to 40hz in your room. Of course, you will need a good sized room and the baffle has to be at least 5 feet from the rear wall. With all my tweaks plus the sound of open baffle (total elimination of box sound and rear radiation)........this would blow you mind. You can finish and shape the baffles any way to please your eye. The speaker wire would be wired directly to your amp from the voice coil wire......OMG. Total cost....less than $7500. If you do not have any woodworking skills you can hire some local woodworker for $1000 to make them for you with super finishing.

Drivers....$6K, Ground Enhancers $38, Bybee Clarifiers $220, wood and glue and screws $550......footers? Finishing? With a table saw and router you could build these in one weekend (without finishing).......you assemble and it sounds so good you wait for a loooooooooooooong time before taking the drivers out and finishing it......it will sound that good........Who will be the first to do this? Not everyone is conservative and just buys stuff. Way less than half price you have something way frickin better.

I will leave this thread for awhile and let you talk about amps and such......will check back later......maybe someone will try what I suggest and post here or start their own thread. Would be lovely if a Nenuphar owner built an open baffle version and compared.....really cool.

Of course, you can add supertweeters (some already have) and woofs......that is another story for another time. Have fun. Love is all there is.

ricevs, good suggestions about OB and direct wiring but can I suggest a separate thread on OB designs for a fuller discussion. I would chime in since I have a number of designs and drivers in mind and intend to put them together this year including field coils.

I do like some open baffle speakers, but, I would think that if it were so easy to make a "much better version of the Cube speaker" by making a very easy to build and cheap open baffle version, Cube or someone else would have done so already.  There are probably good reasons why went with what appears to be a version of the Voigt pipe form of loading.  

Still, it would be great to have a thread with DIYers showing off their designs.  I've heard some really interesting OB speakers, including some monster, cost is no object designs using twin 18" fieldcoil woofers in a baffle more than 4.5 feet wide.  

Nelson uses Cube f8 in OB

https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-26-nelson-pass-harmonic-distortion-page-2

The reason Cube (and most companies) do not make open baffle speakers is that it is not an easy sell. The baffle needs to be large, you need space behind the speaker or you do what Nelson does and add woofer below. They are selling a look....a lifestyle......slickness....they are not selling super hot rods.

Look at the crappy wire and banana plug Nelson is using....he is not a tweak, for sure......no Ground Enhancer, No Bybee, no wiring directly to the voice coil wire.....and not good wire......probably has the same banana things on the amp end of the speaker wire.....you know...so he change change wires or amps real fast.....Hot rodding is so easy.....and takes so little time....and the sonic rewards are amazing..........but, he just has no interest in it. He even told me so.

It is not just the large front baffle and space requirement that works against OB, they do not go as deep bass-wise because of the lack of reinforcement and because of out of phase cancellation.  I personally don't give ultra deep bass a high priority, so OB speakers are attractive, but, the market seems to really put such a premium on ultra deep bass--hence the use of subwoofers, popularity of high wattage solid state amps that can deliver bass punch, etc.  

A lot of the modern speakers with their very narrow front profiles sound the way they look, to me--thin and lacking is weight.  I do wonder if not enough concern is given to baffle-step and diffraction issues with some of these thin baffle designs.

The Nenuphar might have slightly deeper bass than putting the driver on an open baffle. My friends 10 inch lii driver on the open baffle I described is flat in large livingroom to 40hz and 5 db down at 30. The Nenuphar cannot move that much air at lower frequencies and that is why there is the Basis.....the Basis adds low bass and punch and the smaller ported cabinet for the full range makes it roll off the lower bass on the full range driver.....so it will play louder without overload. You could do the same with an open baffle version of a Cube.....you add woofs underneath and you change the coupling cap in your tube amp or whatever that creates a 6db per octave rolloff on the main driver areound 60-100hz without adding any crossover parts. If you use a better quality cap in the amp....then you have another boost in sound. Lots of ways up the mountain. Creativity and an open mind are king.

@larryi    I have only heard two or three OB designs but uniformly, they all exhibited a thinness, a lack of weight or gravitas, that left me wanting for more. I'm not saying they can't scale the heights but I haven't heard it.

As the OP, I've asked once and now I'm asking again. Both have been polite requests. I do not want to engage Admin and have multiple posts deleted.

As @toetapaudio  and @larryi have suggested, and I have requested...it is easy to start a thread on open baffle speakers and other full range speakers. 

Thank you.

David,

Why is a discussion of the suitability of the Cube driver for use in OB systems not an appropriate subject for this thread?  It appears to be a thread about both the speaker and the driver.  
While I have my doubts that this driver would be better sounding in an OB (because I think the designers would have tried it this way), I nonetheless think it should be an excellent candidate for such use for fans of OB speakers because of its overall competence.  

@ricevs I’ve been thinking about your detailed suggestion for rewiring the Nenuphars and wonder why you wouldn’t just procure enough of the wire you are using internally to go from voice coil to amp, skipping "speaker cable" altogether?

@ricevs I’ve been thinking about your detailed suggestion for rewiring the Nenuphars and wonder why you wouldn’t just procure enough of the wire you are using internally to go from voice coil to amp, skipping "speaker cable" altogether?

The internal speaker wire is short and you can use a high quality one to replace it. For external wire, if you are content with the internal wire and never plan to experiment, you can always extend the internal ones externally as well but remember than the external wires are usually long (unless you are using monoblocks close to the speaker) and will need extra attention to shield and all. If you plan to experiment with speaker cables then its a pain to desolder/solder every time to change it.

stephendunn,

Sure,,,,no probem.....but then you do not get to tune your system with different flavors of speaker wire. And, as debjit said....experimenting with wire is made very hard.  If you have mono blocks then absolutely you can mount them right behind the speaker and use the wire coming out and hook it right to your amp posts...using the wire tinned (no spade/banana....all connectors suck)..  

debjit_g,

Most speaker wires are not shielded.

Direct wiring does have benefits, I’ve tried. Ricevs, let us know if you start that OB thread.

Some Custom Color Options for the Nenuphar, courtesy of Mono and Stereo:

Nenuphar Custom Colors

YouTube video of the Jazzon posted by Cube Audio (for those who want to compare it to the Nenuphar):

Cube Audio Jazzon Video

[There are a number of videos of the different models for comparison. Click on 'Cube Audio Full Range Loudspeakers' when in YouTube].

David and other owners,

Have you had a look inside the box?  I saw a photo once that showed it to be a box lined with foam panels.  But, the name suggests it is a tapered quarter wave tube loading arrangement which would include a slanted piece of wood creating two tapered chambers.  Is this the configuration? 

It might be play around with those terrific drivers and either a foam-lined tube with a vent on the bottom or a similar TQWT alignment would be not that hard to build. 

I checked out the recent YouTube videos comparing the Nenuphar and the Jazzon. With the caveat that I don't have the best headphones, I found the Nenuphars to be noticeably more engaging than the Jazzons. They just had a liveliness that the Jazzons did not. I didn't hear nearly as much difference between the V1 and V2 drivers within the Nenuphars family. The two versions sounded very similar to me - again in my admittedly modest headphone set up.

@larryi  Larry, I've been travelling and busy. I'll reach out to you.

@paullb   Thanks for the feedback, Paul.

Thanks David.  Because I am so lazy, I probably would not go the DIY route myself, but, I do know people with the skills to do it and the ears and discrimination to make a DIY project work.  If I ever do change my speakers (not that likely because they are very good old school horn systems), certainly a viable candidate is the Nenuphar Basis which I heard at the Capital Audiofest and liked very much.  That speaker is one of the few fully realized commercial systems that has impressed me a lot; that it is a pretty good bargain is all the more reason to be impressed.