as I looking towards getting a pair myself, I would like feedback on the following:
1. any suggestions on a solid or tube integrated amp not costing a fortune ?
2. for those who are using SIT-3, what preamp are you using ?
@david_ten I see that you are using Edensound spikes. Did you get the extra large solid brass spike for the front and regular hemispikes for the back ? In that case, did it match the original rack angle ?
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Jon (Refined Audio US distributor) usually showcase them with Pass xp22/xp12 preamp and either FirstWatt SIT or Pass xa25. He is a dealer for Pass as well. I am guessing the Lampi is the Golden Gate model.
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This thread has been silent for sometime...:-)
What are folks using for the speaker cable with their Nenuphars ?
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Thanks @david_ten and @cal3713
@cal3713 what gauge and connector will you be using ? single or double run ? have you considered replacing the internal wire from the speaker terminal to the Neo 10 driver with the Tempo electric wire ?
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@david_ten David, not sure what's going on but I can see them from my browser. I am not very familiar posting images here. I simply linked those images from an external site using the "Image" icon and suspect I might not have done it properly. Do others also have the same issue ?
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Thanks @riaa and @rwpollock Looks like you guys are lucked out getting a pair of SIT-1. All the SITs are unobtonium these days. I will keep my eyes and ears wide open in the used market but if anybody is willing to offload any of the SITs, pm me please :-)
btw, I currently have a PS Audio BHK Pre - can anybody tell if it’s a good match with the SITs ?
@david_ten thanks for the confirmation. You happen to also use a Townsend podium - did it make a bigger difference then just using the Eden spikes on the bare floor ? |
Speaking of Tektron tube amps, they are the 2a3 amps used by Cube Audio
at shows. Robyatt Audio carries four of their smaller amps/preamps.
www.robyattaudio.com/TektronProducts.htm
I may purchase one this winter to check it out. Looks like the amps with 2a3 tubes are 2.5 watts/channel. Is that enough to hear at sane listening level, assuming you sit 8-9ft from the speaker ? What about 300B tubes ? has anybody been able to listen to a 300B amp with the Nenuphars ? |
Can anyone compare Magus vs the Nenuphar ? Apart from more lower octave extension in the Nenuphar, do they differ much in the midbass and above ? With a pair of subs, will Magus come close ?
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@abd1,
they look beautiful in walnut (?) finish.
I get a pop every time I turn off/on the SIT-3. Though I haven’t discussed with Jon (Cube distributor) on this but I assumed its normal. Your issue seems a bit different. Did you try any other preamp ? Since you have the DS which has a VC, maybe try connecting directly to the amp and see if you face the same issue ?
How do you like the Canary M90 with the Cubes ?
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I have never heard a Boenicke apart from the youtube videos and I liked what I heard. Its interesting that folks who are interested in Cube are also also interested in them as I am. I would be highly interested in a comparison between the two though I am not sure if this would be the right thread. The amp requirements for the Cube and Boenicke are on the opposite end of the spectrum.
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The Raido/Børresen in shows always have a wider placement configuration very close to the side wall with aggressive toe-in towards the listening position. Maybe they don't care for the sidewall reflection based on how the speaker is designed. I am still playing to the positioning with the Nenuphars and experimented a little with the toe-in and I find aggressive toe-in make the sound too bright and sharp for my taste. Currently they are toed in about 5-10degree. How much toe-in do you guys have ? Between, anyone using a pair of subs with the Cube ?
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@cal3713 interesting thought. There is no question that a separate power supply on each channel can make a substantial difference depending on the original power supply design. I haven’t seen the inside of SIT-3 but if there is enough space inside, you could install the 2nd one in the same chassis and rewire into a dual mono configuration. You would then have to recalculate the fuse rating (if it has one) and drill another hole for the 2nd fuse. It’s another option for someone wanting a stereo amp and saving real estate :-) |
I was watching Peter's video on the 8" Nenuphar mini last night and thought it sounded good but also very aggressive. Not sure if its the recording or its on my end.
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I am quiet happy with the SIT-3 (both sound and power-wise) and am thinking of either investing in a better preamp or a good tube integrated. The VR L2i at $19k is out of budget and so is the AC. Has anyone paired a good integrated at a reasonable lower price, say 10K or somewhere in that range, give or take ?
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thanks @stephendunn and @charles1dad. All excellent options and I will do some readings on them.
I remember writing to Tektron USA distributor before I bought the Nenuphars but did not hear back. I didn’t follow through at that time. Maybe its time to do a follow up. Has anybody heard in person how the Nenuphar sounds with the Tektron vs the First Watt or other amps ? I am hoping that the 2A3 can power the Cube’s to a comfortable listening level when the listening position is 8-9ft from the speaker.
I was also considering Triode labs, either a 2A3 or 300B integrated but they don't have a remote which is a deal breaker for me.
@rwpollock, yes I have heard great things about Backert. Which model are you using ? If I go with the tube pre route with the SIT-3, I am also considering Supretek DHT pre. I hope all these choices will be better than the BHK pre (which is no slouch) that I am currently using.
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@charles1dad I know some Avantgarde Duo XD owners uses SIT-3. The Avantgarde’s nominal impedance is 18Ohm which is way too high for the SIT-3. Hence many uses another 12Ohm register (off-coarse based on Pass recommendation) in parallel for the amp to see a lower load impedance just under 8Ohms. Its interesting that adding a register in series lowers the damping factor but this will also increase the nominal impedance. I am now curious if this technique could be applied with the SIT-3 and Nenuphars to further reduce the damping factor. I guess the only way to find out is to write to Pass :-)
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Did anyone try LTA Z10 with the Cubes ? I hope it has enough to power the Nenuphars. The spec doesn't list much details but folks at LTA said they use low -ive feedback and low DF.
Anyone have compared the Z10 to a SIT-3 ? |
The Z10 works fine with my Nens. However, I do prefer the SIT-3 combo; it has more life and dynamics. Thanks @rwpollock yes, the SIT-3 sounds wonderful. I was trying to see if I can simplify the setup with an integrated. What preamp do you use with the SIT-3 ? |
@stephendunn, I agree with the newer Shunyata V2 being excellent. I am using Alpha NR v2 couple of months back on all components, except one. The Omega is far from reach at this point.
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If you’re ever able to hear both the Magico A3 and Nenuphar (Each
respectively driven by an appropriately matched amplifier) I would be
quite interested in your listening impressions. Those two speakers are
so different and at near opposite ends of the spectrum in regard to
their design. I imagine that they sound very different from one another. I am also eager to hear about this comparison. Apart from different design, their amplification requirement is also very different. |
I have a basic question powering the Nenuphars.
My listening space is very odd and not very conducive to audio. The room is a shared space, which is 14’ x 20’, with an open room configuration with high ceiling and the right side extends to another room and kitchen with total area being quiet large. However, I listen nearfield about 8.5’ from the speakers and the speakers are separated by 8’ apart.
I have been using a SIT-3 so far and find it lacks dynamics, specially is the bass region. Recently I got a chance to try a Line Magnetic 805IA (2x48W SET) and in the same room configuration, the Nenuphars came alive. All that was lacking with the SIT-3 was all fulfilled by the LM.
This makes me wonder if Nenuphars can really get along with small powered amps in not-so-small space (even with nearfield listening). I have communicated with Jon (NA Nenuphar distributor) and he thinks SIT-3 should be more than sufficient to power but my experience seems otherwise.
Any thoughts ?
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@charles1dad thanks for your thoughts.
I forgot to mention earlier that I also tested a Class D IcePower 1200AS2 amp that I had laying around just to double check what I am hearing with the LM and the results are same - this amp also opened up the bass performance tremendously as did the LM over the SIT-3. The IcePower lacks the refinement and highs are rolled off which is expected of this amp but the bass slam, heft and depth was all there. This amp is 1200watts into 4Ohms. Not that the Nenuphars (or any moderately efficient) speaker would remotely need this kind of power but this was an eye opener to say the least.
I was actually planning on getting a Tektron 2A3/50/300B integrated but this whole thing has now put a wrench and now I am not sure if I will land in the same boat as the SIT-3.
As you say (and I also read from various places), that low powered amps has been quiet successful in paring with the Nenuphar but do we know their listening environment and can safely conclude that it works quiet well under all circumstances ? Maybe not. It probably shows that the listening environment might be equally important in choosing the right amp ?
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@charles1dad yes, I had corresponded with David a while back and I vaguely remember he mentioned his room is large and open at the back (instead of front in my case). I am not sure if its still the case though. It would be interesting to get David's opinion.
I think he also mentioned that he has pulled out the speaker into the room quiet a bit. I do the same as I am accustomed to pulling out speakers way into the room with my Acoustic Zen Crescendo MkII and find the Nenuphars has the best balance. On the contrary Jon suggests 12-18" from the front wall but it just doesn’t work for me as the sound becomes way too aggressive. So horses for courses, I guess :-) |
Btw, that reminds me - I spoke with the US distributor and it looks like the v2 driver upgrade is changing out the cone and assembly on the same frame/magnet of the v1 drivers. So there is a down time in sending the v1 drivers, replacing them and then getting it back :-( You can off-coarse buy a new pair of v2 drivers and then sell the v1 driver in the used market but that will be a costly proposition.
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I was very interested to try the Enleum but my modded LM sounds so good with the Nenuphars that I have no interest of upgrading the amp. If I like the Enleum more than the LM, it will great win for me since, apart from the uptick in sound, I can also significantly reduce the power consumption of my system.
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The 'downtime' is about two weeks. Jon Ver Halen / Refined Audio will send a box for the V1 drivers to be shipped to him; he replaces the front of the driver and ships the now V2 driver back to you with a sticker labelling it as V2 and additional stickers for the owner to place on the outside (e.g. by the binding posts) of each speaker to signify the speakers are V2s.
@david_ten thanks for the details. I did not enquire about the downtime since I wanted to get his opinions on the v2 before upgrading and he was still expecting the shipment of the assembly. The 2 weeks downtime seems a lot, especially if you don’t have a back up speaker and you listen almost everyday. I can’t seem to think I will be out of music for 2 weeks. Cube should have figured a better plan :-)
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For me, the two week downtime (which is mainly due to shipping the drivers back and forth) is about as reasonable as it gets.
@david_ten yes, I agree. It’s quiet a reasonable time give the situation we are all in. However, since Covid many of us are WFH and enjoys listening more than ever :-)
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I spoke with Jon yesterday. He should have his ears on the new drivers soon and will be able to provide his feedback on differences, etc.
please keep us posted. I am also very interested in knowing how well it behaves with a low power amps.
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@ricevs I’ve been thinking about your detailed suggestion for rewiring the Nenuphars and wonder why you wouldn’t just procure enough of the wire you are using internally to go from voice coil to amp, skipping "speaker cable" altogether?
The internal speaker wire is short and you can use a high quality one to replace it. For external wire, if you are content with the internal wire and never plan to experiment, you can always extend the internal ones externally as well but remember than the external wires are usually long (unless you are using monoblocks close to the speaker) and will need extra attention to shield and all. If you plan to experiment with speaker cables then its a pain to desolder/solder every time to change it.
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I have been meaning to add a Vcap ODAM in the Nenuphars. I have some on my linear power supply filter caps but I have not done played with it with the speakers. Anyone has any experience on how they perform on speakers ?
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@stephendunn since you mentioned the Enleum, I just looked back the posts and realized that I have never posted about it. Recently I snagged one from a local audiophile buddy who was using it as a headphone amp. He has never hooked it up the speakers. I was not very confident that this tiny little amp can do any wonders compared to my modded LM SET. Well, never in the past I have been so wrong about audio the first time I have hooked up my system to the 23R. Just before I snagged the Enleum, I bought a new pair of Psvane ACME 805 for the LM and I had only played about 10hrs before the 23R took its amplification duty. So far, I have not turned the LM, neither I have the urge to do it. I will probably compare at some point but I can say that the sound from the Enleum is very satisfying.
I had a SR orange fuse laying around and it took the Enleum a notch or two up. Now a SR purple is on the way.....man, this hobby is just nuts :-)
I will update on what I find out on the CTD...
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Btw, I have been using a pair of Fidelium speaker cable for some time now with great results.
Also have been playing with a pair of SR latest CTD (Carbon Tuning disc) - placing a purple disc on the speaker cable did not yield any change with the Nenuphar, which is contrary to what others have reported with speaker cables. Might move them into the speaker, near the banana post to see if the results are different.
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@ricevs what is this super wire ? Any link ? I have contemplated changing the internal wire of the Nenuphar to a better solid silver wire but just didn't get to it. The internal speaker wire looks a bit flimsy and think a better wire could definitely benefit.
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My buddy just ditched the Higher Enleum (53??) because he preferred both the Luxman 595 and Valvet E3 SE in his setup.
There is no Enleum 53. I think you might be talking about the Bakoon. Which speaker ?
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Thanks @david_ten it's indeed helpful. Did anyone of you here upgraded to v2 and can share your experience ?
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He definitely had the Enleum...not the Bakoon. Guess it was the 23. His speakers are AG Duo’s and Fleetwood Deville. Obviously different results with different speakers so take it for what its worth. The Valvet is about Half the price of the Enleum but you cant use it as a space heater or fry an egg on it so it does have some disadvantages
I had auditioned the Valvet e2se a while back with the Nenuphars but much preferred the SIT3. I found the Valvet to have more highs than the FW but it and the midrange was also a bit grainy for my taste. I have not heard the E3, so do not know how it compares to the previous version but I am sure all these amps are stellar with the Cubes.
Did anyone pair a Luxman 590AXII with the Nenuphars ? Seems like a possible good candidate.
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@grannyring thanks for the feedback on the Vcap odams. Yes, I agree with you that they have an open and a bit bold character which may not be suitable for this speaker in particular.
I am making an assumption these speakers don’t currently have a top tier copper foil cap in them. If they do, then wonderful and leave them be
The Nenuphar is a full range single driver speaker with no crossover. Amp straight to the driver.
https://www.cubeaudio.eu/cube-audio-nenuphar
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The Nenuphar is single driver and crossoverless. Where would one utilize a capacitor in this speaker?
I was thinking maybe as a bypass cap to see if anything yields interesting. may not be a good idea after all :-)
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My current favorite is NE Eno series. They bettered the Sablon in my system. The NE has a new reference model Muon which is more costly but I have not heard it.
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@toetapaudio NA is near to you and they have a 30 days hassle free in-home audition. I am using their Eno series streaming filter/cable, along with their Eno usb to great effect.
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I recently changed the internal wires (which is like 20awg ?) of the Nenuphars with Vhaudio. I am using KLE banana plugs on the speaker end but after break-in the sound is just so much better and fuller. My rest of the system produces very detailed and lively sound (due to Lampizator DAC) and hence some recordings that has stridency or hard edges present has mellowed down without loosing anything. All in all, the upgrade proved every bit worthwhile. While the VHAudio upgraded wire with ofc copper conductor sounds as good as it does, I am tempted now to upgrade to even better wire, maybe silver. It looks like the internal wire might be the greatest weak point of this speaker depending on the rest of the system.
@ricevs I would love to try some of those purifiers….
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@ricevs i wasn’t looking for a free pair. I would really like to try it out if they aren’t exorbitantly expensive (I don’t really know what they the cost). Anyway, I could have easily hardwired the wire straight to the voice coil but didn’t do it for two reasons
1. I want to first evaluate the best wire and experiment before soldering/desoldering things. I don’t really like hit iron touching the voice coil often.
2. I have been contemplating v2 driver upgrade.
btw, I am aware of the Mundrof’s new Angelique series. I went to Partscon couple of days back to get the 15.5awg Mundrof Silver/Gold for a power supply project where I saw those.
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@jayctoy thanks for the feedback. Where do I buy the Siltech from ? Any link ?
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@david_ten David, no I have not reached out to Grzegorz. In a hindsight I should have but most of the time these types of mods are not encouraged by manufacturers as it indicates a weakness in their products. Now that you mention, I will write to him and report back if I get an answer. Thanks for the suggestion.
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I have the Fidelium as well. Clarity of this wire is in spades. I will also be trying some DIY cables out of pure copper (ofc/occ) after I have some understanding from Grzegorz (per David's suggestion). The good part is due to the low power requirement the Nenuphars don't need too much heavier gauge to sound good.
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Here is the before and after
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Trying again...Let me know if it works this time.
Before and after image
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