Cornwall iv

I had the CW IV but sold them for a pair of LaScala IIs. The cornwalls are great speakers and much better than earlier versions. The sound is more refined and modern while still retaining the klipsch heritage roots. The only Tektons I’ve heard and/or owned was the earlier version of the Pendragon.  They weren’t bad but I didn’t keep them long. 

I’m thinking I may pull the trigger on a used pair soon. Maybe tomorrow if the guy ever messages me back. I was looking for measurements on them but could not find anything. I’m not a measurement stickler but don’t want something that measures ridiculous either. I’m mostly Acoustic Rock, Metal, classic Rock, Hank Jr type country, and some reggae. From what I’ve read sounds like they could be the ticket. Not unhappy with my Focals but miss the dynamics of my Double Impacts. Thinking these may have even better dynamics and possibly a better tone. Would love some higher end Focals but they aren’t exactly giving them away. If the Marketplace guy gets back with me I’m hoping I can hear them before purchase. 
 

Are you still happy with your La Scalas? 

I have not see detailed measurements of the Cornwall IV but here you can see the measurements of the Forte IV which might give you some insight. 
 

https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/klipsch_forte_iv/

Thanks for that James. 
 

While not textbook does not look too bad from the measurements I can understand. 

The Cornwalls are good for those who want speakers closer to the back wall.

Or someone who uses low powered tubes or Class A. Buy the XO upgrade

from Danny Richey if you go this route. Too bad Klipsch doesn't offer that upgrade.

LaScalas are considered the best sound Klipsch offers but the Cornwalls are easier to live with. 

Only Tekton I ever liked had the s/b acoustics Beryllium Tweeter upgrade. Moabs.

Must be out from the back wall 3'. 

They still look like a kids toy-to me anyway.

My experience with Cornwall's goes back to the late 1970's. The local hifi store had a pair owned by an employee set up in one of the soundrooms. Compared to the Snell Type A's in the other soundroom the Cornwall's sounded irritatingly bad! Nobody who worked there wanted to listen to them! They are badly flawed speakers!

Mofojo,

yeah the measurements are ok on the forte, watch the video for good explanation. The general frequency slope is fine. You would have to play with toe to get the highs where you want them which can easily be done with horns. When I demoed them I felt they lacked bass. You can see that in the measurements with the bass shelf (downward). These are clearly tuned to be placed 1-2’ from the wall. I heard them out into the room 4’ or so. With a good set of subs they are probably fine. The mids were nice. The only other thing is you can see the resonances in the speaker (peaks up and down) but those are probably different in the Cornwall… 
 

the Cornwall IV was a big step up to my ear with deeper more textured bass and I felt they had better driver integration from low mid to mid. 
 

as a whole I think Klispch are ok speakers. They have good dynamics which is very hard to find in cheaper speakers as dynamics normally come with efficiency and efficiency comes with size or the cost of bass extension. What they lack is refinement, refinement of ultra smooth frequency, low box noise and a smoother off axis response. So I think it comes down to what you value. I put dynamics at the top of my list and if you have never used horns you will quickly see the advantages. Sadly I think speakers that are as dynamic with more refinement will cost a lot more (JBL, maybe Volti). 
 

I ended up buying the JBL 4367 over the Cornwall (bought a few things in between too lol….). The 4367 is similar in size to the Cornwall but has much better drivers and box (thicker more solid horn too) but with that and the JBL name comes much higher cost (3x!). As a whole package the JBL keep the dynamics but add audiophile refinement over the Klispch to my ear and in the measurements (4367 measurements on Erin’s audio corner). 
 

as for Klipsch, I think I would take the Forte with subs over the Cornwall without subs. But I would take the Cornwall with subs over the forte with subs… subs for the win, always subs lol. 
 

the La scala is well worth a try, a local pair on Facebook was listed for $7500 (awesome deal). I kind of wanted to buy them just to try it, but they sold as thought about it. The La Scala bass extension is very poor and subs are a must IMO. I felt like the horn loaded bass was a step up in dynamics over the Cornwall. Though I did feel like I heard a bit of the cabinet, could have just been in my head though, Hard to say. 

@james633 I've heard that the Klipsch are popular with folks using lower powered tube amps. Do you think that some of the negatives you mentioned about the Forte go away with the right approach to power? Thanks.

Really, the CW4’s are great with many amps, and types of amps.  I’ve even had good luck with a Fosi V3 recently.  Quite good, in fact.

Hilde45,

I really can’t say anything about the power amps. When I demoed the Cornwall IV it was using a MAC7200 oddly the same setup at two different shops. I don’t remember what the forte was using as I was really shopping the Cornwall/La Scala.

when I demoed the La Scala (current model) I heard it on the MAC7200 and MC275 in the same room as the Cornwall IV. The tube sound was very noticeable in back to back A/B but the MC275 is a pretty high power tube amp with way more than enough power, which still had good dynamics. I stay away from tubes because I hate buying them and worrying about their life, I like the sound though.

it was just demos, so only a few hours, longterm users can give you more insight for sure. I did listen to the systems a number of times as it is my local shop I normally buy from. We moved the Cornwalls all around the room, close to the wall, well into the room, in the corners, etc, I like the typical audiophile isosceles triangle setup the best, toed towards the shoulders. 

@jasonbourne71 

Cornwalls of yesterday are not Cornwalls of today. Vastly different. And I've owned both.

@james633 Thanks. It doesn't seem complimentary of a speaker that one would have to use especially low power amps (SS or tube) to make it sound refined. I was just wondering.

To be fair the OP is looking at used Cornwalls IV which is what $4k ish?  In that price range I would personally buy the Cornwall and be happy. I think it is far less of a risk than Tekton which would be much harder to resell. My general thought is that used Cornwalls are a cheap way to get big speaker dynamics without spending big speaker money. 
 

say the other side of the coin, something like the Revel 228be (used pairs for $5500-$6500 right now). I have owned this speaker and it is super refined, commit no sin type of refinement. Without subs they are pretty light in their bass tuning and are a touch boring (great with subs) but “perfect” sounding. Oddly I sold my 228be to someone local that owned a pair of Tektons (pendragon I think) and after a few weeks he more or less said the Revel eclipsed the Tekton in every way including bass impact and detail. I think he was a bit taken back with how good the Revel really was. Having it in your home is a lot different then a demo. 
 

I bring up the 228be because I owned them while shopping for horn speakers. I think living with a very refined speaker makes warts of other systems stick out pretty quickly. my local shop also has the Revel line (328be, Salon) and Klispch line (Cornwall, La Scala) on the floor for easy comparisons. 

So it just comes down to what you value most. With money you can have it all but most of us need to chose our priorities. I think the Cornwall is an ok compromise if you put dynamics at the top in that $5000 price range.

Pulled the trigger on the 1 year old Cornwalls. Perfect condition. I think they are outstanding looking with the walnut but ymmv. They sounded really really good at the sellers house. He had a real nice Ayon tube setup. Super dynamic and waaay smoother and layered than I expected. Really nice tone. I was ready to pull the trigger on some Paradigm S6 v.3 and the local seller messaged me back about the Cornwalls and we agreed on a price I think was fair for both of us. 
 

Way different presentation from my Focals and it seems like what I’m looking for although I love me some Focal. Using a Lyngdorf 3400. Even before room correction they sound super powerful and no fatigue. Gonna run room correction and bring in the subs tonight. 

Congrats!  The CW is a fun "entertainment" room type a speaker.  Throw them in a large space, use them for music and movies, especially concerts and they are difficult to match.  Great for parties and guests, and when you don't want to be a critical listener.  You'll also find that friends won't question their value.  Hit them with a few peaks in the high 90's/low 100db range and they'll get it.

I will say they are nothing like the Chorus 2 I had. Those could peel the paint off the wall without judicious use of EQ. My wife described these as warm and juicy sounding. Also pointed out how good the vocals were and I agree. I could not even get her to sit and listen to my Focals which I quite like. She kept asking to hear different songs on these. Maybe not perfect in an audiophile sense although I can't pinpoint what's missing in that respect, but I don't listen to the normal audiophile fare. The guy I did bought these from had a frequency response graph he measured in his room and it was very flat which surprised me. 

Mofojo,

I am glad you like them. They are en enjoyable speaker and “audiophile” enough IMO. I think the Chorus line is pretty bad (I have owned some). As I was trying to say about the Cornwalls is they are pretty good and speakers that have the same type of dynamics but are more refined come at much higher price. Dynamics are so important I would take them over the last bit of refinement. 
 

I will be interested to hear what you think with the subs and how you set them up (highpass?), Lyngdorf is a nice piece. 

@james633 ,

While the Lyngdorf has made every speaker I’ve hooked up to it sound way better with Room Perfect it has not been the case with the Cornwalls….. so far. I haven’t given up but so far it robs most of the bass and a good portion of the Cornwalls top notch dynamics. They sound better uncorrected, more engaging which has not been the case with any other speaker I e tried with the 2 Lyngdorf’s I’ve owned. The subs do blend very well. Currently running the Cornwalls full range and bringing the subs in at 40hz.

Interesting on the room correction, not sure what to think there and why it would be different than other speakers. You might get less room reflections with the horns. They tend to be a lot more narrow and need less room treatment/correction in my experience.  
 

Does room correction need to be engaged to run a highpass? Even if you chose to highpass at 40hz I would imagine the transition will be clearer. 
 

I normally highpass my JBL 4367 (similar layout to the Cornwall) at 63hz but one of my subs is broken again (JL is trash). So I am running just one sub at 37hz to fill in the bottom end at the moment. Even at 37hz the highpass made a big improvement in integration than just using a a low pass (I tried both ways), food for thought. 

@james633 ,

I think you are on to something with the high pass. I haven’t ran room perfect again yet but set my crossover at 60hz both the subs and the speakers. Sounds better for sure and more dynamic. Gonna enjoy it that way till tomorrow and re run the room correction and see what that does. Sorry to hear about your JL sub. They will fix anything to do with a V1 Fathom for $450. I sent the amp in and they replaced a bunch of caps with the V2 caps and sent it back within 2 weeks. It sounds better than it ever did now. 
 

The guy I bought them from gave me a room sweep printout and they started falling off the shelf at 55hz a little bit so I think 60 is good. May play with that some more. 

Yes 60hz is probably good. Honestly most speakers start rolling down at 60hz and then they “crossover” with the port. I find speakers sound better if I crossover where the bass driver rolls down before the port is engaged. That has been my experience with a number of speakers.

the big 15” woofers with accordion surrounds are very good in the mid bass because they settle fast and have a ton of surface area but deep bass is not their strong-suit due to low travel.

JL is good about fixing subs ($550 for full rebuild out of warranty) but this is my 5th failure (4 prior rebuilds, 2 per sub) so I am done and moving on to another brand. 

I definitely noticed an uptick in the mid bass speed when I applied the crossover.  Very good improvement indeed. I need to get the wife and kid the hell away from me for a weekend so I can experiment!! lol. Prob not gonna happen anytime soon. Daddy daughter dance with my second grader Saturday night. Haha. 

Wow that sucks about your experience with JL! I had 10 years of trouble free service out of mine. Only had it back for a few months after the recap of the amp. Hoping it’s good to go for a while but yeah with your experience I would be done with them as well. 

Nice, Enjoy the time with the kids, they get big fast. Mine are in 1st grade and preschool.

The Cornwall was designed for "corner" or "wall" placement. Very easy to drive, until the divorce they were excellent R&R speakers. Everyone should own a set of horn speakers at least once on their journey. I've stumbled across little companies or individuals who offer upgrades for Klipsch horn speakers; there seems to be a little cottage industry in crossover mods and replacements, and drivers. I do not think your will regret grabbing these.

This looks like.a good place to insert my "Frog to Prince" Cornwall story:

In 1982, I owned an audio store and had a new out-of-the-area manager infatuated with Klipsch. speakers. The Consumer Electronics Show came around (Chicago) and I agreed to give them a listen. Upon entering the room, I took about 8 steps into the demo space, saw a set of Cornwalls on display, and heard a sound so objectionable I did an about face and abruptly exited the room. I just wanted to get the heck out of there.

The following weeks passed with (almost) daily nagging by my store manager to bring them in. As much as I disliked the Cornwall sound, I disliked the squawking of my manager even worse, finally gave in to his pleas and placed the order. Just when you thought the Cornwalls could not have made a more negative impression on me, they did. When the truck arrived, my guys were busy with customers (a good thing) so I found myself unloading the shipment by myself. There I was standing face to face with these big, honking speaekers (physically AND sonically) sitting on the back of the truck. I was a pretty fit 32-year-old at the time that still enjoyed putting myself up against a wall and knocking out handstand pushups. My level of confidence was pretty high on getting these monster cartons off the truck. So, here I was, Cornwalls suspended in air a few inches from the truck when I felt a sharp pain in my back. By first response was to just let them go and let them crash to the pavement. Then, I thought about the value of what I had in my hands (at the time $700 if I recall correctly) and gingerly (and quite painfully) eased them to the ground.

This was the first time I’ve ever experienced a real back injury and found myseflf hobbling around for weeks afterwards. Wasn’t loving the decision to bring in Klipsch. My manager set up the Corrwalls in our "high end" demo room and invited me to give them a listen. You can understand at this point how low the bar was for me. I was expecting something like a sonic mixture of Altec Voice of the Theaters and Clarion coaxial car speaekers. I seated myself in the comfortable listening chair (I needed it). Well, I didn’t HATE them. But, I didn’t like them. I did determine, however, that the demo at CES had a lot to do with bad room acoustics.

We got a fair amount of momemtum with Klipsch (mainly Hereseys) and each generaition took sonic leaps forward and aligned more with my musical tastes. Yes, we did bring in K’Horns on our second order.

Fast forward to the late 80’s when the speaeker nurd in me couldn’t hold off the temptation any longer to design and build my own speakers. It was at this time that I developed an appreciation for the art of crossover design including component quality, cabling, connection methods, etc. Soon after being awarded a patent, I got a bit curious about what I could do with factory-stock speakers. So, I began messing with various types of speakers including, yes, Klipsch.

Every speaker has errors of omission (things covered up/left out) and commissions (sounds they make that they shouldn’t) and early Klipsch designs had plenty of both. I found thaty addressing both ends of this issue -- better parts, cleaner signal path AND reducing cabinet and horn body vibrations -- got me from 0-60 very quickly (and inexpensively) with Klipsch speakers. They are quite analytical (VERY unforgiving of Mid-Fi) and respond quite well to "tweaks."

So, as luck would have it, I was presented with a pair of early Cornwalls for a possible "upgrade." I enthusisaticallly accepted the challenge. I also spent some quality time with the customer doing "before" demos so that both of us would understand where we started, sonically. I tore into them with crossover parts, cabling, silver solder and Dynamat slinging everywhere. Then it was time for the "after" evaulation. I put on my first "reference" demo cut, and liked what I heard. Then, I found myself going to the next. Then, the next. Then, the next. I was REALLY enjoying myself -- and the Cornwalls. There was a lot of music coming from those boxes. I had truly come full circle with my former nemesis.

The newer big Klipsch’s are sonically superior to early models in every way. Polite British loudspeakers? "No!" But, pretty darned listenable, right out of the box. My recent mods included Forte IVs, and I (and, the customer) were happy with the result. I’m sure there are sonic gains to be made with Cornwall IVs as well.

I was a supportive Klipsch dealer up until the day I retired in 2016. The new owners still have them on display, so some of the momentum that began (painfully) in 1982 must still there today.

The cornwall IVs, you will not go wrong with them. They are  outstanding sounding speakers. They are large and heavy but beautiful . They have that 70s 80s look to them because of their size. They sound the best, I feel when playing live music. Any music of good quality recording will be exceptional. And whatever improvements you make to your system only makes them better. I found that damping the tweeters and mid horns with Damping tape easy to do and removeable improves the sound 2 fold . And my Mac amp is 450 watts so power makes no difference. Soundstage is huge.  Hope this helps

Thumbs up on the damping.  

Jeffseight, I don't think GR  Research offer a crossover upgrade for the CW4s, only the Forte 3s from the Heritage line.  If he does offer it, it's not on his sight that I can see.

For those using solid state amps, the Western Electric or Deulund DCA tinned- copper speaker cable works well with these speakers, helps take away the hardness or smooths things out a bit.  Either 12GA or 16.  12GA is going to probably be richer/warmer.  

Mine came with all the damping done and also lined with NoRez. Binding posts also upgraded. 

Well they have opened up substantially over the past few days. They are in the basement so I can leave them playing 24/7 at a pretty good volume. They have substantially more bass now than when I got them. Leads me to believe they were not fully broken in. Snare has more snap and more articulate mid bass as well. Really liking these so far. 
Running Room Perfect on the Lyngdorf is still giving poor results. These and 1 other speaker I’ve had issues with it normally makes a huge difference for the better. Just sucks the life out of them, I don’t get it. Really with the directionality of the horns I’m not feeling like it necessarily needs any dsp. With that being the case I may start looking at a nice tube integrated. Any suggestions on some good ones to start looking at would be appreciated. So far in my list is Octave and Ayon. 

Also going to email Lyngdorf and see if they have any comments on why the crappy results 

Ok I’m talking to myself probably but I’m excited 😆! I factory reset the Lyngdorf and started from scratch. No idea why this would have anything to do with it but I do know I’m the 2nd owner and you can get online and do all kinds of stuff to the unit. Not sure what the previous owner did. 

Anyway, after the factory reset and all new speaker setup etc I ran room perfect again…….. it’s completely night and day and BADASS! Happy guy now. 
 

Mofojo,

that is good to hear. Does it show you the changes it makes before and after running the correction? Do you allow full bandwidth correction or limit it to a frequency (say 200hz and lower)?  

I allowed whatever factory default allows for bandwidth correction. Not sure what that is and I’m not sure you can change that. I’ve never got on the web page and messed around with the advanced settings. It does not show what changes it makes on the unit display only a status that shows percent correction. I think what is does really well is time align everything. I left the default crossover which should be 80hz on the mains and sub. Might play with the crossover point and do another set of measurements.