Comparing external DAC to CD player DAC

good gracious - the Rotel 855 was very good at the time and price, but was far from truly audiophile.  I had one - at the price loved it.  (actually i still have it -- somewhere) But i can move into a totally different world with a regular nothing special mac laptop, bitperfect, lossless files, and one of many dacs under $500. Now that i have a solid foundation in what's being discussed somethign is very, very wrong with the OP's experience. 

I also had Marantz CD-67se.  Not one but two that I purchased 25 years ago from a sale as far as I could recall.  The SQ out of CD-67se is good but nothing special really to write home about.  Both of them quit a while ago.  I replace one of them with the vintage Rotel RCD 855 with the well-known Philips TDA 1541 chip.  It performs brilliantly with detailed treble, warm midrange and solid bass, better than Marantz. 

Mac into that level dac will fall short of the sound quality that marantz cdp produces. To run a fair comparison and or to determine the real potential if that dac run your cdp into it via spdif. 

totally disagree with "old mac is the problem". I wont get into either the theory nor my extensive step by step subjective testing - but done right it can be as good as anything. But there are many pitfalls to ANY computer based streamer. Note i have posted the gory detail several times before. And if apples are truly compared to apples USB is the interface of choice and done right pretty much takes the streamer/server out of the equation.

While we may be encouraged to believe in magic, partly by pompous "engineers who overlook minor details and/or psychoacoustics - if you get it right, anything that is bitperfect and electrically quiet over USB will be identical to any other. Timing is entirely in the DAC. but those two caveats, plus things like upsampling show that the devil is in the details.

i’d like to hear what the DAC is, and what apps you are using on the Apple unit, whether you are going bitperfect, and how you are isolating your USB from the computer’s noise. If for example, you use the computer’s digital volume control you can be down in 10-12 but resolution very quickly. Settings matter too - from the basics to more esoteric stuff. Computer audio sadly demands some new learning. Only then can we begin to comment. Absent that its guessing or pontificating.

Absent facts id; say no that is not expected. But then, what kind of sound do you liek and does the DAC tend that way (detail vs smooth, blah blah).

To many who said "no surprise they sound the same at that price" - he said the opposite. Which is curious.  there are of course lousy $300 Dacs. Some that get good reviews are, IMO, kinda analytical adn nasty.

PCs and MACs are generally terribly electrically noisy devices. They weren’t designed for high end audio at all. Like others, I suspect your MAC being used as a streamer via USB is your weakest link here. You might find streaming even via an iPAD to be "better". Just beware the iFi Stream. The current version has known bad and frustrating Wi-Fi connection issues that have NOT been worked out yet. Many love how it sounds - when it works. I’m hoping iFi will come out with a "Mark 2" version one day with these issues fixed. I’d much rather buy one to feed an external DAC than a Bluesound Node.

You never mention what DAC you have...Maybe a Geshelli Labs J2? Or Schiit Audio Modius or one of the ubiquitous Chinese DACs from Topping or S.M.S.L.?

In any event do know that some Chinese delta-sigma DACs do err on the thin side of sound to give a fake impression of detail, but that is slowly changing. Some may actually like that presentation. To each their own.

For $79 you might try a WiiM Mini Streamer to replace the MAC (using optical into your DAC). It would be a cheap way to eliminate the noisy computer at least, and you could always repurpose it for use in another room or garage system.

Or as Paul McGowan suggests in the video posted above, try using Bit Perfect on it, if you aren’t, to eliminate all that Apple nonsense about futzing with the audio, i.e. screwing it up.

Not surprised - the old Marantz stuff was really nice.  - we still have a Marantz CD-94 in our listening room and people are amazed wen they hear it compared to the new stuff.  You mention a $300 product.  We cannot even find a chassis for $300 to install parts so IMO how can that product be basically any good or offer an improvement in sound quality.

Happy Listening

I don’t understand how the old computer impacts the sound quality

I don’t understand how the old computer impacts the sound quality

"Old Mac" is probably the weak link.  As suggested, try the CDP direct to your external DAC.  If you're satisfied with the resulting sound, you'll only need to replace your streamer.

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Preview

I have been using a well-known, inexpensive ($300), and well regarded DAC with an old MAC as a music server.

Yuck   That sucks  

I recently pulled out my old CD player, a Marantz CD-67se: an "oldie but a goodie".  The CD player with its onboard, 20+year old DAC is far superior to what I am experiencing with the external DAC, from any source..  Is this expected.

No wonder.  It’s not as much an “oldie but a goodie” and more an “older and less baddie.”  The Marantz no doubt sounds more lush and full while your current streaming setup probably sounds relatively thin amped threadbare by comparison.  My advice, buy something like one of the newer R2R DACs like the Gustard R26, Musician Pegasus, etc. (whatever meets your budget) and I think you’ll get the benefits of the Marantz but with much better upper-level detail and air that Marantz tends to roll off IME.  Also, with streaming everything matters and streaming directly outta your MAC, uh, sucks.  Get a dedicated streamer like an iFi Zen Stream or, at the very least, get a noise reducer like the iFi Purifier 3 if you continue to use your computer.  Hope this helps, and best of luck. 

Well I heard my first streamer setup that would run with an upper middle end cd player yesterday. It was a 3000 dollar cayin  that had 5000 Woirth of upgrade parts put into it. So I finally  heard something  I could live with.you likely just have to realize your old player is better that the new dac you have. Be happy that you are getting better sound quality  without spending more. Congratulations!  Go listen to or buy an upper middle end player or above from the late 1990s you will be shocked. Look at players that retailed for at least 5000 dollars back in the day.

@djbarabino 

Oh I forgot to ask.  What is your price range?

My 30+ year old Sony CDP-2700 sounded better than most current players.  I was very sad when it died last year. I replaced it with an Audiolab CDT6000 and  Denafrips Pontus ll DAC. The reason I went with separates was so I could use the DAC with most any streamer or any CD player/transport.

Good suggestion.  Using the spdif output will provide a more direct comparison.  But at his point, the results are mostly academic for me. I am going to keep the Marantz for cd’s, and get a new DAC for streaming and files. But I am going to do some more evaluating

It only shows to compare everything. And confirms that computer sourced SQ is usually poor.

At least you didn’t specify the external DAC. Probably not it’s fault.

This also confirms that CDs often sound better than files.

All else is inconclusive.

The title of your post is WRONG.

Not comparing. Try the SPDIF out of the CD for a more valid comparison. You still have to factor in possible inter cable losses.

after my search, my conclusion is that it is a SALAD: dac(s); upscaling; re-clocking; filters; anti-jitter; proprietary this and that ....

prefer, not better is the way I think about it.

trust your ears, and any friends ears you trust.

After research and asking advice I went thru 9 different players, found one low cost changer, no SACD (Onkyo Integra CDC-3.4), and finally old Sony xa5400es for CDs and SACDs.

Using computer’s USB to DAC is far superior to using Headphone Jack for simple streaming. Inexpensive Topping D10s sounds great.

The good news is that entry level high-end DACs are not that expensive now. 

Try either Gustard A18, Denafrips Ares II, or Musician Pegasus. Any of these should give a noticeable improvement in sound quality, and then you can decide if you would like to spend more on better DACs.  

+1 @mesch 

Some of the CD players made around the year 2000 were very good. Much better than those produced upon the arrival of the CD.

You are comparing a computer used as a streamer/transport into a budget DAC against a true transport/DAC built to be compatible towards a sound signature  you seem to prefer. 

Nothing is wrong. You simply prefer one dac to another. Age is irrelevant. People often prefer vinyl records, which is a much older technology than any digital. You can certainly try another modern dac, but you still may prefer the marantz. BYW, some of today’s most prized dacs use old dac chips, because many believe they sound better. 

I agree with gods.  At that price level it’s hard to discern differences.

Nad preamp. 165 bee

adcom gfa 555

BA lynfield VR 60 monitors

What is the rest of your equipment?

In the price range you are comparing anything is possible. Depending on the rest of your equipment, I would recommend maybe start with a Schiit Gungnir DAC as a reference. It is a very good DAC for the money. This would give you a reference. Then for a streamer look to Blue sound. I would guess this will upgrade the sound you have in all respects and give you a contemporary baseline.