CLASS D MONO AMPS buy ATMASPHERE MUSIC SYSTEMS

Look at Merrill audio they started off reasonable .

now because they decided to use the latest in digital they go Waaay over 

priced by making a fancy cabinet at 10 x the mark up , a truly good engineeer 

Will offer Amps preamp $5-$10 k.  That shows skills  .

the vast majority of Audiophiles cannot even afford  $10k 

amplifiers never mind like Merrill $30k units .  Think on being practical it’s a hobby to enjoy not a mortgage !!

If you have had experience With Atma-Sphere Amplifiers and pre-amps (I have owned every single unit) you will know anything that comes out off Ralph Little Lab is going to sound bigger and better than anything else on the market at the same price level and few times more. Its hard to beat his stuff at his pricing level.

Iv had amplifiers and Pre-amps costing 2 or 3 Times more and i still went back to his gear.

His Design may well not be everyones cup of tea, that is obvious as he tends to lean to Retro looking stuff. However if it comes down to Pure Sonic well those who have experience in comparing Atma to uber level stuff will know!

Iv owned every Amplifier from Ralph Except the MA-3 which is not practical for my needs.

From S30, M60, MA-1, MA-1 and the Nirvana

I own his MP-3 and MP-1 and the UV1

I have no doubt about this New Class D tech his working on!

it should be a concern for all the rest of the companies that are in the Class D Segment. Some of those companies are charging silly prices for bling boxes.

Glad for your sharing of a happy 'find' experience.  Not sure if you're 'selling' or 'telling' though.

As one the members in your audience, there are some of who would prefer a 'live' performance over a recording. Price is the only measure surrounded by many superlatives. 

As one who prioritizes live performance over reproductions- the discretionary spending budget has different elasticity/inelasticity curves.  Compelling value proposition seems absent.  

Aren't reproductions nothing more than an aggregation of layers of artifacts?  

If the desired outcome is constrained to the conditioning of one's listening habits seems to there is a departure from fidelity of the original performance work to the recording/production engineers biases and preferences.    

Class D is about the needs for addressing increasing demand on our collective electrical supply. Not just quantity but, quality(s) and reliability, too.

The OTL certainly is one.

The GaNFET is certainly needed over the material limits of Si.  

Helper Circuits (e.g. Purifi/Hypex/Ghent..) are of materially benefitting, too.  

All these components require emerging test devices and measures to address integration.  Increasing needs for ever smaller precision approaching the smallest theoretical period of time. Only in 2014 we just deployed NIST F2 clock. On our way to Planck's length, or just 0.5 x 10^-43 seconds.

Does the listening habits/training from live settings dissipating during audiences' quarantine & isolation? Is a consequence of performance-based fidelity displacing  the original performances work's lost if our venues are increasingly constrained to recording engineers biases and preferences?

Last then there is the TCO (total cost of ownership).  Is this approach really a sustainable business model?  Is blending Tubes & GaFNET, Helper Circuits & Class D just greater uncertainty (Heisenberg/Schrödinger)?

@sumwhat ,

I think you are overanalyzing this.

B 

Class D is about the needs for addressing increasing demand on our collective electrical supply. Not just quantity but, quality(s) and reliability, too.

This statement appears false. Class D offers the possibility of using loop negative feedback in a way that was previously not possible due to stability concerns.

Legacy solid state and tube designs lack the Gain Bandwidth Product needed to support very high amounts of feedback. This causes the amplifier to have increasing distortion with frequency, resulting in harshness and brightness since the ear assigns tonality to distortion.

In addition the prior art has issues with phase margins in the design. Adding too much feedback can cause oscillation. For these reasons feedback has gotten a bad reputation with music lovers.

Class D offers a way around those problems.

Last then there is the TCO (total cost of ownership).  Is this approach really a sustainable business model?  Is blending Tubes & GaFNET, Helper Circuits & Class D just greater uncertainty (Heisenberg/Schrödinger)?

'Apparently.' for the first. Your so-called 'Helper circuits' are class D modules so do not warrant a separate classification; the Ghent stuff uses Icepower modules so isn't a thing.  So winnowing out that bit of confusion, the answer then becomes 'no'.

“Class D is about the needs for addressing increasing demand on our collective electrical supply. Not just quantity but, quality(s) and reliability, too.”

LED lighting has had a massive impact on power consumption in the USA. I recall seeing a graph maybe 2-3 years ago that illustrated how LED lighting had changed the relationship between economic growth and energy consumption. E.g. for the first time in history electrical consumption did not track economic growth. 

Systems-of-systems-of-systems is a perspective challenge.  

I suspect few, if any, have measured the noise floor on the neutral at their home or work site. Particularly, over multiple-time studies of more than 1 year. 

There is much more worth learning about from DOE, ESRI, NRCC, IEEE (e.g. Greenbook) and the AFRLs have much more to offer. 

Caeteris Paribus is deflective, at best.  Quixotic still.   

Between the GPR/EPR and then the neutral floor noise rise, the advance of the NIST-F2 clock integration, RF energy harvesting & distribution, more consumer DC appliances, EV charging stations...bucolic reminiscence will only provide more melancholy than fidelity.  

I am confident that Ralph's GaN amps will be/are awesome.

I just wrote this on another thread: FWIW: My experience with class D goes back to PS audio GCC 250, which I still use in my video system, but in my 2 channel audio Ive had several W4S, Emerald Physics 100.2SEs, Audio Alchemy DPA-1 (excellent sound but I need a lot power in my room), PSA M700s (also soundd nice), EVS 1200 which I raved about for a year UNTIL it was replaced with a LSA Voyager 350 GaN amp. The Voyager is ~ half the power of the EVS, and yet sounds twice as room filling. From this experience IMO, GaN is so superior (at lease when done right) to conventional class D that it SHOULD have a separate designation. Switching Speed is the juice

Most interesting Ralph .

The photo posted by dill looks just like the Atmasphere class d amps at the Florida Audio Expo in the Unique Audio room. 
 

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=180725.new#new

Switching Speed is the juice

Possibly but this atmosphere class d GaN amp actually has a lower switch frequency than most mosfet class d amps on the market, so I find this comment irrelevant to this discussion. And, other than a Technics GaN amp that came out over a year ago, none of the present GaN based class d amps have a switching frequency materially higher than most mosfet class d amps on the market. So, a claimed major benefit of GaN technology for class d amps, a higher switching frequency, is in fact not even being exploited.

Has the price been mentioned yet? I just kind of skimmed through the posts and didn’t see it. 

There are two "speed issues". One is the switching frequency (400K to 1.5Meg) and the other is the speed of the output device. GaN transistors are faster and have less overshoot and ringing than mosfets so therefore have less intrinsic dead time. Which of these to "speeds" make a sonic difference? Some people claim both do....some claim only one does....some claim that 500K mosfet switching is fine. If you could take an amp with mosfets and change it to GaNs and listen without changing anything then you might know about the intrinsic speed. If you take an amp and raise its switching frequency without changing anything else then you might know about that. If these sonic tests are not done then you are just guessing..

I don’t understand the title: Class D amps buy atmasphere…it appears to read as if Class D purchased Atmasphere.  If it is supposed to be “by Atmasphere” instead of buy, then I get it. 
 

On the current state of sound regarding Atmasphere OTL amps. I attended the Florida Audio show for a few days and listened to the Novacron and new McIntosh Mc3500 driving the Classic Audio Loudspeaker T1.5 reference. The sheer dynamics of music were easily reproduced by using the Novacron mono amps. The bass was quick, solid, and deep. The rest of the audio frequency spectrum sounded just right without any noticeable negative aberrations in sound quality. It was just right and pure. I also thought the Novacron sounded more natural, well,organic, compared to the 3500, but that was not a direct A/B test. My takeaway is that the Atmasphere OTL Novacron is an incredible amp. 
 

It will be interesting to hear industry and consumer feedback regarding the new Atmasphere Class D amps. 
 

@audioquest4life  Have listened to the Novacrons many times at a local dealer and agree a wonderful amp BUT must be used with correct speakers that have a high impedance to do their magic.

@rsf507 

I agree wholeheartedly. It seems like the 16 ohm, 101db efficient Classic Audio T1.5 reference are a match made in Heaven when mated with the Novacrons. This journey is so full of variables and listening tastes, it is hard to make an absolute judgement call for what is best for someone’s system. 

I think my McIntosh MC2301s pair very well with the T1.5s and I get equally good sound with that combination. 
 

I run Atma-Sphere Nirvana OTL Amplifiers, on the Classic Audio Loudspeakers i posted the pictures over whatsthebestforum.

The nirvana at times Powers up the 16ohms T1.5 or at other times the Line Magnetic LM3 which is also 16 ohms Field Coils.

I owned the Novacrons for some times excellent amplifiers.

@phantom_av what are Nirvana Atmasphere amps? Never heard of that model.

@rsf507:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/atma-sphere-nirvana-amplifiers.32871/

I have both the T1.5 Field coils and the T3.4 Field Coils

Class D as good as 2a3 or 300b well made tube amp with horn speakers.Dream on it will be a while yet.If ever.I have heard many class D amps for years don't come close.

Class D and Tubes amps all tend to sound diffrent. Iv heard some terrible 300B and 2A3 Amps and some good ones, Iv heard some horrible Class D Amps and some decent ones too. Not Heard the Atma-Sphere Class D Amps thou. Cant Comment on that. But Comparing SS Amps to Tube debate has been going on for years.

Class D as good as 2a3 or 300b well made tube amp with horn speakers.Dream on it will be a while yet.If ever.I have heard many class D amps for years don’t come close.

Can you quantify "as good"? What does that mean exactly? Subjective statements such as this are simply unsupportable opinion, not fact.

Some people prefer certain distortion spectra produced by certain amp topologies. That won’t ever change. Some people put steak sauce on Kobe beef. To each his own I suppose.

Should have been a comma after Class D. Yes it's an opinion however there is something about the speed,stop start and all those subtle variations on that theme,imperfections and long learned  skills that lead to human emotions that Class D is short on. The sound the tone of instruments class D is short on.

Should have been a comma after Class D. Yes it's an opinion however there is something about the speed,stop start and all those subtle variations on that theme,imperfections and long learned  skills that lead to human emotions that Class D is short on. The sound the tone of instruments class D is short on.

More opinion. A great many people would beg to differ. Ultimately, there is no debating opinions. The only thing that can be debated are facts, and on that basis, there can be no denying that class d on an objective basis performs superlatively. Some like it, some don't: there is no "better" subjectively, only different.

All the reply’s have valid comments,   but I have listen to my  system using the GR RESEARCH NX OTICA with Servo Sub Woofers…The Atmasphere Music Systems Class D mono amps are just more transparent have better bass then all my others amps on these loudspeakers 

MA-1 Mk3.0 with NOS Driver Tubes

First Watt J2

Pass Labs XA-60.8

BTW … The GR RESEARCH NX OTICA with Open Baffle Servo Subwoofers are truly reference loudspeakers 93db 8 ohms Danny Richie has designed an amazing 

Loudspeaker

Thanks for Reading 

So we take feelings out of the criteria pertaining to the decision of whether or not a peace equipment is performing holistically.At lease to a functional degree.

Ultimately, there is no debating opinions. The only thing that can be debated are facts

Actually, its the other way around.

and on that basis, there can be no denying that class d on an objective basis performs superlatively.

The words "perform superlatively" need to be clarified because the word perform has (at least) two different meanings in this context.  This is a fact.

Anyway 300b & 2a3 cant power up anything much except very sensitive speakers with a relatively easy load to drive. Your limited on the speakers you can buy, Class D on the other hand can juice up even hard to drive loads with out issues or a change in the amplifiers character.

It also comes down to the speaker your choosing,

for me i choose speakers based on the amplifier i really liked. Which is usually the other way round for most audiophile.

I specifically looked for a 16ohm field coil speaker, The Classic Audio Loudspeakers not only fit the bill but sound more musically satisfying then anything else iv heard hence the reason why i stuck buy and bought another smaller pair the T3.4. They may not look pretty as other designs.

I also have the Line Magnetic LM3 Field Coils these are 16 ohms. I bought these just to pair it with the Atma-Sphere amps and it was out of curiosity but now iv decided to keep them too.

I love SET Amplifiers too, I am not just a OTL FAN! But OTL  don’t bore me as much as some SET amplifiers, it musical and fast, its transparent and conveys all the musical emotions over to the listeners just like SET can do however OTL must be paired with the right speaker to transform your musical room to something really magical!

Does this new Atma-Sphere Class D amp have a switch in the back to select between RCA and XLR inputs? 

+1 for tubeguy and phantum

Having owned many class D over the last ~ 5 years, none compared to my EVS 1200 (dual AS1200 IcePower modules, then sprinkled with Rics pixie dust), which I raved about, until I hooked up the Voyager GaN 350. The Voyager is ~ half the power, but easily twice the authority

Ultimately, there is no debating opinions. The only thing that can be debated are facts

Actually, its the other way around

@noske Hahaha. Touche. And precisely correct.

I listened to the new Atma sphere Class D mono blocks at the Tampa Audio Show this past weekend. I was not familiar with the Gold Note speakers but the system had an excellent sound with a lot of depth in the lower midrange and no harshness in the highs.  I visited the room three times and enjoyed it each time with very different styles of music.  

Debate is best done using facts to support a position. When the position one is trying to support is not capable of a factual defense, there can be no rationale debate.

That’s not true these days consensus is now part of science.

That’s not true these days consensus is now part of science.

 

A consensus doesn't mean it's rationale nor does it mean it's factual. If it's not based on fact it's just an opinion, regardless.

invalid

463 posts

02-23-2022 at 06:07pm

That’s not true these days consensus is now part of science.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not real science, though you might think so by the groupthink passing as science today. Science makes real progress by people taking contrarian views, taking on conventional wisdom

Example 1: Ask the person who put forward the hypothesis that bacteria cause stomach ulcers. No one believed him until he infected himself and then cured himself.

Example 2: quote from Nobel prize winning physicist Max Planck:

“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”

I too heard these amplifiers at the Tampa show.  When I entered the goldnote room I sat down in the sweetspot listened for a song a guy requested a few songs they didn't have and offered to let him hookup bluetooth.  He did and we listened to 4 different songs then he had to leave.  At the same time a different guy asked what the atmashere on the floor were?  I never even saw them.  The rep said they were the new class d amps and that's what we listened too.   I asked how much they were.  It shocked me because all of the class d I have heard I didn't like. ( I heard the agd twice at that show much the music wasn't in the the wheelhouse for me to make a determination of positive or negative. I stand neutral) it's the first atma-sphere product I have heard.  I really liked the sound because I couldn't tell that it was a class d amp.  I ended up ordering one.  Up until that day I never believed that class d had arrived.  I a have heard most of the major modules and a few smaller companies class d and although better than 20 years ago not good enough.  My brother, for years has been telling me that class d was the way to go.  But my ears hear the higher order distortions that I just don't like.   It's the issue I have with all of the solid state amps I have owned.  Although I don't have tubes I have heard many and prefer the sound of the dominant 2nd and 3rd order harmonics.  This class d fooled me.  Hopefully what I initially heard will remain true when I get it in my system.  My advice is if you get a chance to hear one you should even if you are not a fan of class d.

Many class D amps go at or over 300WPC at 8 ohm. I wonder why this model goes only to 100WPC.

I ask this question because, if I ever go for class D I will look for the power rating first and I will only consider 300WPC or more. I had ARC class D (T?) 150WPC amp before and it sound much weaker than my Plinius class A 125WPC amp.

will keep my A/AB amps for the foreseeable future.

enjoy......

@ihcho

I have owned several class D amps of 2-3+ times the power (including the EVS 1200, based on dual AS 1200 modules) of my LSA Voyager GaN 350, pushing Emerald Physics 3.4 open baffle @ ~ 97dB, but it has considerably more umph than any of them. So much for wpc. Time to replace inefficient speakers

Add the Hypex Ncore Class D amp used in Cambridge Evo 150 all-in-1 to the list of very good sounding Class D amps with a lot of bang for the buck.

Time to replace inefficient speakers

Well, those inefficient speakers will flourish with more powerful and higher quality and affordable class D amps.

Add the Hypex Ncore Class D amp used in Cambridge Evo 150 all-in-1 to the list of very good sounding Class D amps with a lot of bang for the buck.

$3000 class D integrated amp? Interesting. Even it has MM phono input. 

Well, those inefficient speakers will flourish with more powerful and higher quality and affordable class D amps.

Maybe. But its a simple fact that with less efficiency comes more thermal compression. Its also a simple fact that if you make a power amp (any power amp) work hard for a living, its going to make more distortion.

That additional distortion is often audible as harshness and brightness. We've been hearing that for 60 years... IMO/IME if you want the best performance out of your amplifier dollar investment, its best served by speakers that are of higher impedance (8 Ohms being better than 4) and also easier to drive.

Ralph...I apologize if this has been asked.  Can you make a higher power amp with this module or is it limited to output as designed?

Thanks!

Can you make a higher power amp with this module or is it limited to output as designed?

We can, but we're holding it to a rather high standard: At present, the amp can sit at full power with a sine wave input all day long- something you simply can't do with a conventional solid state amp. We're looking into how far we can push that.

Efficient speakers makes a lot of sense for audiophiles on a budget. The amplifier choices increase considerably aswell.

Class D is about the needs for addressing increasing demand on our collective electrical supply. 

I may not be the most woke person one the planet, but if one thinks that the 2 channel hifi arena is where much energy is going, then they need to provide some proof and facts to convince me.

Home theatre maybe a small dent.

The cellphone and portable electronics is where the brunt of class-D efforts are headed for reducing power draw.